Question of the Day: Do The Cops Know You’re A Gun Owner?

  1. Ohio doesn't register gun owners.
  2. Ohio doesn't register guns.
  3. Concealed Handgun License information is linked to vehicle registration.
 
Deanimator said:
  1. Ohio doesn't register gun owners.
  2. Ohio doesn't register guns.
  3. Concealed Handgun License information is linked to vehicle registration.
Click to expand...
Ohio local PD would also know if you ever bought more than one handgun in a seven day period from one FFL. And that would include make, model, and serial number. Some PDs just look at it then shred. Others may store the data.
 
IIRC, WA State keeps a record of FFL transactions (for handguns anyway). The cops do have a record of who had a CHL. I was stopped for a traffic issue, and the cop said "You have a CHL. Do you have a gun on you?" or words to that effect.
 
I have friends that are LEO, here in CT. When they are called to a domestic, they can request info on weapons in the house hold. I believe the dispatcher can link to the records of purchases due to the fact all have to go through a FFL.
 
Yup. This one "lady" (I use the term very lightly) calls 911 every time she sees me. This one deputy and me have a laugh at her expense every once in a while. We stand around in front of her talking guns, hunting, army whatever while she glares at us. I think she dropped that phone in the toilet, because every time she gets on it, **** spews out of her mouth. (Or maybe she fell in the toilet face first?) The funniest thing is that we're neighbors, but she hasn't realized that yet.
 
Treo said:
I'm fairly certain Washington doesn't have firearms registration which makes this entire story suspect to me.
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Might want to research the Revised Code of Washington. In Washington State for the sale of handguns, the dealers are required by state law to fill out a state form similar to a form 4473. It is called an Application to Purchase a Handgun, or something similar. That form is forwarded to the LEO agency servicing the FFL. If a Washington CPL number is recorded on that form, the dealer can deliver the handgun immediately to the buyer upon receiving approval from NICS, and the LEO agency uses the Application to Purchase a Handgun form to perform additional state level background checks.

If there is no Washington CPL number recorded on the form, the dealer must wait 5 business days for the LEO agency to run the background checks and approve the purchase before delivering the handgun.

Here's the kicker. State law also requires a copy of the Application to Purchase Handguns to be delivered to the Washington State Department of Licensing, who keeps a database of every handgun sold by a dealer in Washington State, make model and serial number, and all the information associated with the sale including identity of the buyer, driver's license number and CPL number if used. Thus, given any one piece of info, all the other info can be obtained including exactly which handguns were purchased from dealers in Washington by make, model and serial number.

This is not a "gun registration" (so the state claims) because only handguns at retail from dealers are recorded. Private sales are not.

RCW 9.41.090 and 9.41.129 are the applicable Washington State laws. So, the exact answer to the OP's question in Washington state is that law enforcement does NOT know what firearms I currently own - but they do know which handguns I have purchased from Washington state dealers in the past.
 
Here in the Milwaukee area a gun store was being boycotted because it was found out that the store was giving sales data to the Milwaukee PD. It seems like programs like these are wide spread but not carried out accross the board. Depends on how corrupt the local law enforcement is.
 
Luckily the gun store/range I utilize has an old crotchety guy running the joint. When I asked him about this he told me his requirements, and I may have the form #'s wrong, but he said the one that just listed me and the fact I bought a gun was what was submitted immediately, but the one that listed the firearm serial # was sent to the ATF after 20 Years. The store has been around since 1945. The same family has been running it. I trust them, which ain't something I give away freely.
 
NavyLCDR said:
Here's the kicker. State law also requires a copy of the Application to Purchase Handguns to be delivered to the Washington State Department of Licensing, who keeps a database of every handgun sold by a dealer in Washington State, make model and serial number, and all the information associated with the sale including identity of the buyer, driver's license number and CPL number if used. Thus, given any one piece of info, all the other info can be obtained including exactly which handguns were purchased from dealers in Washington by make, model and serial number.
Click to expand...

Is this relatively new? About 5 years ago I had my house burglarized and a handgun was stolen. At the time I naively wasn't keeping track of the serial numbers. When I made the police report, they asked me for the serial number, and I told them I didn't have it. They told me they didn't keep any direct record of handgun ownership and that the only way I could get it was to go to the dealer I bought it at and have them check the 4473. Obviously, they could have done this but I guess they just wanted me to do the leg work myself. Point being, when they responded to my house to take the report, as far as they told me, they had no idea that I owned guns or what the make, model, or serial was and would have to go through the same steps I would to get it.
 
jcreek said:
Is this relatively new? About 5 years ago I had my house burglarized and a handgun was stolen. At the time I naively wasn't keeping track of the serial numbers. When I made the police report, they asked me for the serial number, and I told them I didn't have it. They told me they didn't keep any direct record of handgun ownership and that the only way I could get it was to go to the dealer I bought it at and have them check the 4473. Obviously, they could have done this but I guess they just wanted me to do the leg work myself. Point being, when they responded to my house to take the report, as far as they told me, they had no idea that I owned guns or what the make, model, or serial was and would have to go through the same steps I would to get it.
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NavyLCDR said:
Looking at the RCWs, it seems like that the ability of the Department of Licensing to keep the data was effective in 1994.
Click to expand...

So obviously, either the LE agency you made the inquiry of trained the NSA, or the NSA trained them, in data collection and what's "best" for American citizens to know about same.
 
Going back to the original post, and being of the opinion that all cops are not Nazi's, here's a theory based on the following quote:

"The other day I was listening to Kittitas County [WA] Dispatch send a Deputy to a reported domestic violence call"
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What if the info is available, but there are only certain instances where the dispatcher will go to the added effort of securing this info for the safety of the officer on scene? If this is the case, and it was protocol for them to do this only for certain calls (DV would definitely be one of those), is this a problem?
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Before you jump down my throat, I'm undecided. If I was the cop that info would be handy. On the other hand, if I am going to a DV call I'm gonna assume the worst anyway and prepare for it.
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Thoughts? Is the scenario described possible? If so is it a problem?
 
whodat2710 said:
Going back to the original post, and being of the opinion that all cops are not Nazi's, here's a theory based on the following quote:



What if the info is available, but there are only certain instances where the dispatcher will go to the added effort of securing this info for the safety of the officer on scene? If this is the case, and it was protocol for them to do this only for certain calls (DV would definitely be one of those), is this a problem?
-
Before you jump down my throat, I'm undecided. If I was the cop that info would be handy. On the other hand, if I am going to a DV call I'm gonna assume the worst anyway and prepare for it.
-
Thoughts? Is the scenario described possible? If so is it a problem?
Click to expand...
I think, if I was a cop on the way to a DV, I would most definitely want to know if there were firearms in the house. Legal in all states? Do know, but I would want to know! I like being alive. It's a failing, I know.:wink:
 
whodat2710 said:
Going back to the original post, and being of the opinion that all cops are not Nazi's, here's a theory based on the following quote:

What if the info is available, but there are only certain instances where the dispatcher will go to the added effort of securing this info for the safety of the officer on scene? If this is the case, and it was protocol for them to do this only for certain calls (DV would definitely be one of those), is this a problem?
-
Before you jump down my throat, I'm undecided. If I was the cop that info would be handy. On the other hand, if I am going to a DV call I'm gonna assume the worst anyway and prepare for it.
-
Thoughts? Is the scenario described possible? If so is it a problem?
Click to expand...

Well, first - in order for that info to be availalbe in the first place, there must be some form of firearms registration required.... that's the first problem I see.
 
whodat2710 said:
Going back to the original post, and being of the opinion that all cops are not Nazi's, here's a theory based on the following quote:

What if the info is available, but there are only certain instances where the dispatcher will go to the added effort of securing this info for the safety of the officer on scene? If this is the case, and it was protocol for them to do this only for certain calls (DV would definitely be one of those), is this a problem?
-
Before you jump down my throat, I'm undecided. If I was the cop that info would be handy. On the other hand, if I am going to a DV call I'm gonna assume the worst anyway and prepare for it.
-
Thoughts? Is the scenario described possible? If so is it a problem?
Click to expand...

gejoslin said:
I think, if I was a cop on the way to a DV, I would most definitely want to know if there were firearms in the house. Legal in all states? Do know, but I would want to know! I like being alive. It's a failing, I know.:wink:
Click to expand...

You get a call of a woman screaming at the Joe Smith residence. You get information from dispatch that Joe Smith has purchased 5 handguns in the last 2 years from retail delears. Based upon that information, do you increase your awareness/response? If you do increase your awareness/response - then that means conversely that you have less awareness/response without that information. THAT, in my humble opinion is what will get the officer injured or killed. Does the knowledge that Joe Smith has lawfully purchased firearms in the past really tell you anything about the situation at Joe Smith's house? NO. Having the knowledge of lawful firearms purchases, imho, is an extremely false and thin security blanket that offers no real security at all, especially if the officers are changing their response/level of awareness based only on that information.

Maybe, the one instance where I see that it might be considered is if it is reported that Joe Smith very recently purchased a firearm, and now there is a report of a woman screaming.

It's kind of like the inform or not argument during a traffic stop. Should the officer be more relaxed and less stressed because I tell them about a gun and show them a permit? In my humble opinion, absolutely not. Are you just going to take my word for it that the driver's license I am showing you is valid? No officer that I have ever known does. So why would you make the same assumption just because a person tells you about a gun and shows you a permit? What are you going to do if you leave the gun with the stopped driver, then go back and find out their permit is revoked/expired/not valid for some reason?
 
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