Just spent some time browsing YouTube for videos of open carriers encounters with LEO. Gotta say, I'm quite shocked and concerned how many don't have a clue about what the law is! Frightening actually. Don't they teach law to LEO??? I'm not an open carrier but I don't mind them exercising their rights. And even more so when the cops are just dead wrong about the law. The worst was the one who stopped at guy on a motorcycle and told him he wasn't allowed to open carry because he had a ccwp!! He was actually on the phone with the prosecutor and couldnt understand that EVERYONE is entitled to open carry. Oh wow. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Question for LEO
- Thread starter Mojo57
- Start date
FatCrotch
New member
That's why I carry a news paper article about open carry in Michigan right in my wallet. It clearly states
"in michigan, gun owners can open carry if they are 18 years old, the handgun is registered to whoever is carrying it and that person is on foot and not in a pistol free zone."
I haven't had to bust it out yet but it's good backup.
The only dumb thing is: I thought you had to be 21 to even own a handgun in Michigan. Stupid people.
"in michigan, gun owners can open carry if they are 18 years old, the handgun is registered to whoever is carrying it and that person is on foot and not in a pistol free zone."
I haven't had to bust it out yet but it's good backup.
The only dumb thing is: I thought you had to be 21 to even own a handgun in Michigan. Stupid people.
Tucker's Mom
New member
That is a good idea...if you get busted one day or I get busted one day for carrying and I encountered a LEO who don't understand the law, at least the newspapeer article is a good start. At least we will be going somewhere from there...
I would recommend you carry a copy of the actual statute.... not everything printed in the newspaper is true.
Most of the open carry videos I have seen on youtube have been people doing stupid things anyway...although that is no excuse for police responding with equally stupid behavior.
Anyway, when you get tired of open carry, here's a good police video...
Purple
New member
Better than a newspaper article, carry a copy of your states law. A newspaper article is worthless as a defense and a cop ia not going to buy it. But, the excerpt from state law...he/she can pull it up on their MDT's and verify it. Then if they elect to not believe it, you have yourself a great big old steaming chunk of proof that can be used to bring a case of rights violation or an illegal arrest/detainment against the officer and or the department.
FatCrotch
New member
Good idea I'm gonna look that up and print it out. This is the one I'm currently carrying in my wallet if y'all are interested in reading it. The only difference is the one I have is from a real newspaper and it ends at "ector said"
http://macombdaily.com/articles/2012/01/15/news/doc4f10caa7d3848872938974.txt?viewmode=fullstory
I'm still taking your advice on printing up the actual law. Better idea. Thank you!
http://macombdaily.com/articles/2012/01/15/news/doc4f10caa7d3848872938974.txt?viewmode=fullstory
I'm still taking your advice on printing up the actual law. Better idea. Thank you!
Um, I'm not sure about every state but I don't believe there is any such law that you could hand a Leo re open carry. The point is there is no law against it. That's what the Leo's don't seem to understand in these videos. Can't really show them a statute that doesn't exist. Hence the one had to call the prosecutor.
Tucker's Mom
New member
Yes, but it is a good start. If you also have a printed copy of the actual statute, it is usually a shorter read than a whole bunch of statute. And then you can suggest that the LEO read the statute which you actually have in the glovebox compartment of your car or anywhere you put it (I usually put mine on the right hand corner of my seat). A newspaper article in your wallet can be easier to get when you give your CCW and driver's license. You cannot possibly tell that instance if the LEO is making a mistake in stopping you until one of your both say anything first. Whereas with your wallet out already in your hand, you can make a decision to give it to him as soon as you know he is making a mistake. If you reach for anything other than what you already have in hand, you are likely to be shot. Just saying...
Politely verified what the person was actually doing.
One tip for dealing with police that has worked successfully for me in the past: Just ask the cop to write you a citation for the law that they think you are violating and express that you will let the judge decide what to do. The citation will have to list the exact statute the officer thinks you are breaking, so he will have to look it up. That's what ended my encounter - the officer knew he didn't have a statute to cite me for. Mine was a restaurant MWAG call made by a another customer because I was legally carrying my gun while eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time.
Treo
Bullet Proof
Treo’s first rule of police interaction: If you talk to a cop long enough you will say something he can use against you.
I don’t argue law w/ the cops.
In my opinion even if you have the statute printed out if you argue the point w/ the cop he’ll take it as a challenge to his authority and one way or another you will lose.
As soon as the cop starts questioning you in relation to a crime or starts mentioning that you’ve violated any law, you start the ‘Am I free to go“dance.
Officer, I do not wish to answer any further questions w/out speaking to an attorney. Am I free to go?
B
Bikenut
Guest
In Michigan folks should know this information contained in Michigan State Police legal update #86...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf
MYGLOCK
New member
Bottom line is not all police know all local and/or state laws. Everyone who chooses to open carry where it is legal will probably be question by a LEO who is ignorant to the law. It’s probably best to prepare for this type of situation just like you would any other self defense scenario. It sucks but it is what it is.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
MYGLOCK:288040 said:
I agree we should prepare for it, but as Navy stated in another thread, there is a world of difference between expected and accepted. I just hope everyone is preparing for the right cause.
I guess in my opinion it's shocking that any LEO wouldn't be fully versed in the laws governing guns in their jurisdiction. That would seem to me to be the ONE are they should know everything about. It's not as if that's really all that hard to understand. Open carry is either legal or not. Duh. Would be nice to see that they understand the law regarding terry stops and illegal searches and seizures as well. Guess that's what defense attorneys are for.
How often do you suppose the average police officer encounters a person openly carrying a handgun? How many people openly carrying handguns do you encounter in your day to day life?
It doesn't particularly bother me if they don't know all firearms laws. But when they say, "Hey, come here!" And I say, "Are you detaining me?" If they answer, "Yes" then it would start to bother me if they didn't know the laws they were actually detaining me for.
I think it's completely irrelevant how often they encounter an open carry. Since I go to the range almost weekly and I almost always see someone open carrying to and from its actually quite often. But again, how hard is it to know that either it is legal or its not? Seems like a pretty obvious thing to me and one that once taught isn't really all that hard to remember. They sure do seem to keep update on the various speed limits around my parts that seem to constantly change every 100 yards. Just sayin.
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