Question about when it is considered appropriate to defend myself and to what degree.


That's a tough one. Where do you draw the line? It's different with a guy. An inappropriate touch gets a fist or a shoe.

A fist or shoe? I'm a little confused...are you referring to when guys touch each other inappropriately? I didn't realize that happened often :unsure:
 

That's a tough one. Where do you draw the line? It's different with a guy. An inappropriate touch gets a fist or a shoe.

Where do we draw the line? The line is drawn at, "No!" The law generally recognizes that "No" really does mean "No." Not maybe, not later, but "No." A fist or a shoe from a woman doesn't necessarily prevent further contact, further inappropriate touching. Actually, sometimes when women fight back, the criminal can become more enraged, escalating the situation into a struggle and then into criminal sexual assault rather quickly. So, the line is drawn at "No."
 
A fist or shoe? I'm a little confused...are you referring to when guys touch each other inappropriately? I didn't realize that happened often :unsure:

I don't know that it happens often, I've only had it happen once in my life. And not too often would a guy object to a little "inappropriate" touching by a gal.
 
Where do we draw the line? The line is drawn at, "No!" The law generally recognizes that "No" really does mean "No." Not maybe, not later, but "No." A fist or a shoe from a woman doesn't necessarily prevent further contact, further inappropriate touching. Actually, sometimes when women fight back, the criminal can become more enraged, escalating the situation into a struggle and then into criminal sexual assault rather quickly. So, the line is drawn at "No."

It's wonderful to have other females on the forum :happy: Not that you males are doing a bad job! I think perspective is very relevant for this discussion though. :yes4: But, you guys can offer a perspective that we as women cannot! For example, is "no" the best preventative measure? It's hard to compare I'm sure, because I'm going to go ahead and make the assumption that everyone here is very respectful and wouldn't put a woman in that position to be begin with, but from what you know from hearing of situations, what is the best way that she could handle the situation? Gdcleanfun (are you a Gabby also? I thought you mentioned something about that one time :smile: ) I absolutely agree that fighting back is not always the best option, especially if you're outnumbered. Well, this is how I've viewed it at least..I would prefer to be kind of passive in the situation knowing that I'm out numbered as opposed to being really strong willed and risk the chance of it becoming a physical battle. I don't mean passive passive, but if its a matter of kind of going with the situation I'd prefer that to being held down, etc. Is "no" the best option though, make it very clear and direct, even if you're outnumbered?
 
I don't know that it happens often, I've only had it happen once in my life. And not too often would a guy object to a little "inappropriate" touching by a gal.

This is very true..which is where it becomes difficult, it's a very different situation :rolleyes:
 
Question

This reminds me of a former Chicago police detective, J.J. Bittenbinder, who used to have a TV show telling people how to avoid becoming a crime victim. It has to be remembered that Chicago and the state of Illinois, are about as anti-gun as anyone can be, it is easy to see why he advocated only non-violent (read non-gun)methods. He did stress over and over again not to let the bad guy(s) take you to a secndary crime scene, as you would certainly be killed. In some states, there is no problem with this, because they do not require you to retreat. If you fear for your life, draw and put two in the x-ring as fast as you can. Some states require you to retreat until your path of retreat is blocked, I prefer the no retreat, as I am disabled and can neither fight nor run. I can shoot quite well, and I don't need my legs for that. I have seen that you do not want to say stupid things like, "you're standing where I'm fixing to shoot," or other equally dumb things. It seems there is always some witness around whowill hear you say that, and the jury in the wrongful death suit will hear it and thnk you are a loose cannon on deck, looking for a chance to waste someone. Things to remember:
1. Fear for your life, If you can articulate that you feared you woud be killed or seriously injured.
2. You used your weapon to stop the bad guy, Never say you shot to kill or wound, You shot to stop.
3.Remorse, You regret that the bad guy put you in the position of having to use deadly force.
4.Equipment, Avoid names like Blaster, Devastator and such. Keep as much as possible within reason. Juries look askance on wildly reworked weapons, as they perceive the modifications are there to make it more deadly.

Basically, when you may use deadly force depends on your assessment that your life is in danger, under the definnitions in your state. In a very few states, such as Illinois and Michigan, you must trust your safety to the vagaries of the nearness of the police. The rest of us will keep seeking a change in your state laws, while we pray for your safety.
 
It's wonderful to have other females on the forum :happy: Not that you males are doing a bad job! I think perspective is very relevant for this discussion though. :yes4: But, you guys can offer a perspective that we as women cannot! For example, is "no" the best preventative measure? It's hard to compare I'm sure, because I'm going to go ahead and make the assumption that everyone here is very respectful and wouldn't put a woman in that position to be begin with, but from what you know from hearing of situations, what is the best way that she could handle the situation? Gdcleanfun (are you a Gabby also? I thought you mentioned something about that one time :smile: ) I absolutely agree that fighting back is not always the best option, especially if you're outnumbered. Well, this is how I've viewed it at least..I would prefer to be kind of passive in the situation knowing that I'm out numbered as opposed to being really strong willed and risk the chance of it becoming a physical battle. I don't mean passive passive, but if its a matter of kind of going with the situation I'd prefer that to being held down, etc. Is "no" the best option though, make it very clear and direct, even if you're outnumbered?

This is from me in my Mom mode: "No" is the best option whether you are outnumbered or not, or man or woman! It may not make a difference to the perps, yet, what better way to get your message across if/when you have to go to court that you meant "No" and not "Yes!" The best preventive measure, if at all possible, is never to put yourself in a "white zone" position. Check out the colored levels of awareness zones here. My CCW instructor taught me about this and it's been discussed elsewhere in this forum.

What say you fellows?

Did you say that U R going to college? Care 2 tell us where and what's UR major?

Yes, I'm a Gabby on another website, tho it's not my real name.
 
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This is from me in my Mom mode: "No" is the best option whether you are outnumbered or not, or man or woman! It may not make a difference to the perps, yet, what better way to get your message across if/when you have to go to court that you meant "No" and not "Yes!" The best preventive measure, if at all possible, is never to put yourself in a "white zone" position. Check out the colored levels of awareness zones here. My CCW instructor taught me about this and it's been discussed elsewhere in this forum.

What say you fellows?

Did you say that U R going to college? Care 2 tell us where and what's UR major?

Yes, I'm a Gabby on another website, tho it's not my real name.

Ok, "no" is very easy to follow :smile: I am going to college :yes4: Florida Atlantic, in Boca Raton. And I applied to study under Criminal Justice, but that may change, it sounds like everyone changes their major after the first year, regardless of what they've chosen :wink:
 
This is from me in my Mom mode: "No" is the best option whether you are outnumbered or not, or man or woman! It may not make a difference to the perps, yet, what better way to get your message across if/when you have to go to court that you meant "No" and not "Yes!" The best preventive measure, if at all possible, is never to put yourself in a "white zone" position. Check out the colored levels of awareness zones here. My CCW instructor taught me about this and it's been discussed elsewhere in this forum.

What say you fellows?

OK, No means No. Yes means Yes. Nice, clearly defined answers. Use them. Other negative responses may not be taken as cut and dry, no nonsense answers.

Remember that the average female gives up height, weight, mass, and strength in a confrontation with the average male. In addition, they tend to be less likely to escalate to the use of force. When you are not prepared to off-set these differences, you risk being the victim.
 
OK, No means No. Yes means Yes. Nice, clearly defined answers. Use them. Other negative responses may not be taken as cut and dry, no nonsense answers.

Remember that the average female gives up height, weight, mass, and strength in a confrontation with the average male. In addition, they tend to be less likely to escalate to the use of force. When you are not prepared to off-set these differences, you risk being the victim.

So "no" or :stop: :lol: is the best option, understood :smile:

Can you explain the last part? I'm a little bit confused about who is less likely to escalate to the use of force :unsure:
 
So "no" or :stop: :lol: is the best option, understood :smile:

Can you explain the last part? I'm a little bit confused about who is less likely to escalate to the use of force :unsure:

Us guys seem to be more likely to go from talking/threatening/yelling to more violent efforts than many females. So part of self defense training (both armed and unarmed) for women needs to include developing a "prepared to hurt someone" mindset. Picture a scenario for yourself. You say, "No." You say, "No" a second time. How far do you let things go before you gobeyond talking?
 
Us guys seem to be more likely to go from talking/threatening/yelling to more violent efforts than many females. So part of self defense training (both armed and unarmed) for women needs to include developing a "prepared to hurt someone" mindset. Picture a scenario for yourself. You say, "No." You say, "No" a second time. How far do you let things go before you gobeyond talking?

Agreed, which is where I have a hard time figuring out how to best handle the situation. It seems that often I can spend the entire night saying "no" but the end result is ineffective. But I'm not sure what the best option would be aside from saying "no", especially if I'm outnumbered. It wouldn't be a good decision to be physically defensive, in my opinion, knowing that one, I'm a really small girl, but two, if I'm outnumbered I really don't stand a chance.
 
Us guys seem to be more likely to go from talking/threatening/yelling to more violent efforts than many females. So part of self defense training (both armed and unarmed) for women needs to include developing a "prepared to hurt someone" mindset. Picture a scenario for yourself. You say, "No." You say, "No" a second time. How far do you let things go before you gobeyond talking?

Wolf has a good point. You need to be prepared to stop the threat, hurting them or not hurting them. If saying "No" once does not stop the threat, then you may need to be prepared to defend yourself. No one else may be there with you to help you so it's going to be only you knowing what to do and how to do it. That's why I recommended a self-defense course. The sheriff's department in my county offers one for free. I don't know if there is one in your area. Maybe you could google "self defense" along with your zip code and see what shows up.
 
Wolf has a good point. You need to be prepared to stop the threat, hurting them or not hurting them. If saying "No" once does not stop the threat, then you may need to be prepared to defend yourself. No one else may be there with you to help you so it's going to be only you knowing what to do and how to do it. That's why I recommended a self-defense course. The sheriff's department in my county offers one for free. I don't know if there is one in your area. Maybe you could google "self defense" along with your zip code and see what shows up.

I will look into that definitely :smile: Personally, I think that as a society in the U.S. we need to work towards a better outlook of respect towards women :yes4: Extremely realistic I know :lol:
 
Agreed, which is where I have a hard time figuring out how to best handle the situation. It seems that often I can spend the entire night saying "no" but the end result is ineffective. But I'm not sure what the best option would be aside from saying "no", especially if I'm outnumbered. It wouldn't be a good decision to be physically defensive, in my opinion, knowing that one, I'm a really small girl, but two, if I'm outnumbered I really don't stand a chance.

Outnumbered? That is the reason it is said that Col. Colt made men (and women) equal. Going from "No" to a weapon is a logical progression when outnumbered. A non-lethal weapon might be appropriate, and then a lethal one if things don't settle down.
 
Outnumbered? That is the reason it is said that Col. Colt made men (and women) equal. Going from "No" to a weapon is a logical progression when outnumbered. A non-lethal weapon might be appropriate, and then a lethal one if things don't settle down.

Which is where the interest in carrying comes into play :biggrin: Unfortunately, in past situations I was too young to even have a general understanding of the situation to begin with, but, now the issue is that I'm still not of legal age to carry in the state of Pennsylvania. Now I have a good understanding of how things can go wrong, but unfortunately, I'm still for the most part left unable to really defend myself. Not that I'm just waiting for the day that something bad will happen, but I can't say that I'm comfortable the nights that I'm alone or out somewhere. I do carry mace! :smile:
 
A also agree that a very loud "Halt, get on the ground. You're scaring me" or "Halt..or I'll fire" is a great idea especially when out in public. If you shoot someone and people in the vicinity heard you warn the BG but the BG still kept coming, they will testify to that in court. It will draw their attention to what is going down and establish you as the GG and him as the BG. If all they hear are gunshots and see the BG going down, they will testify that all they saw was you shoot a man. For all they know, you shot the guy over a parking space.

Well, now, that's all great...if what your witnesses see and hear is what was said and done! Countless tests show that people's descriptions of events, all seen and heard at the same time, can vary WIDELY!

Try these little tests and see if you agree...

 
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For a non-lethal alternative you may want a Cold Steel Mini Koga, a Sharkie, or similar item, IF legal in PA. These are small tools that can be used inside the fist to reinforce it when striking, or the ends can be employed in a hammering action to discourage an attacker.
 
For a non-lethal alternative you may want a Cold Steel Mini Koga, a Sharkie, or similar item, IF legal in PA. These are small tools that can be used inside the fist to reinforce it when striking, or the ends can be employed in a hammering action to discourage an attacker.

I looked both up, very interesting idea :smile: How do you use the Sharkie? I saw pictures of it and it looks exactly like a pen..:redface:
 
Sharkie LOOKS like a pen, carries like a pen, works just like the Mini Koga. Use it the same way. If you search, you should be able to find similar tools with a quick-release on a keychain.
 

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