Purchasing a pistol out of state with a military id

[Mwhite732]

I have a friend and his wife are looking to purchase a pistol in Minnesota. They are both residents of texas originally but by right of military orders temporary residents of Minnesota. He is stationed here, and she has her ccw from here. I've ran into a lot of different information on this subject, and I'd like to help him out. If anybody has any information on the subject please let me know!

Thanks Gents!

 

[bradwp]

I'm not sure on specifics state to state, but they should be alright as long as he brings a copy of his orders that have him assigned to Minnesota and whatever other paperwork is required normally.

That's the way it works in Florida, Alabama, and Washington at least.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[Mwhite732]

Any idea where i can find information like that on state to state? I checked the atf website with no luck.

 

[vernsimpson]

I live in MN and to buy a handgun you either must have a resident CCL or go to his local police station and apply for a permit to purchase. The permit to purchase costs nothing and is good for a year. Now that is what is required for residents. They could go to an FFL and they should know all the ins and outs.

 

[mperkins1116]

I've been in the Army 18 years. Every place I have been stationed (stateside) allows you to purchase weapons with a copy of your orders and your military ID. As long as his wife is on his orders, she should have no problems either.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As long as his wife is on his orders, she should have no problems either.

Wrong. Wives don't get military change of station orders.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have a friend and his wife are looking to purchase a pistol in Minnesota. They are both residents of texas originally but by right of military orders temporary residents of Minnesota. He is stationed here, and she has her ccw from here. I've ran into a lot of different information on this subject, and I'd like to help him out. If anybody has any information on the subject please let me know!

Thanks Gents!

Any idea where i can find information like that on state to state? I checked the atf website with no luck.

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Page 7 of the above document:
Federal Law 18 USC 921 (b):
(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in which his
permanent duty station is located.

Page 39 of the above document:
27 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 478.11:
State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individual's
State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located.

Pages 135-136 of the above document:
ATF Rule 2001-5:
Held further, a purchaser who is a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located, and may satisfy the
identification document requirement
by presenting his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is located within the State
where the licensed premises are located.


All of the above applies ONLY TO THE MILITARY MEMBER and not the spouse or other dependents. In order to purchase a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in the new state, they must obtain the "standard" proof of residency such as an in state driver's license or state ID card - or present some other government issued document that proves their new state of residency. Spouses and dependents are not issued military change of station orders. I would recommend you read the entire section on pages 135-136 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide as it contains complete information regarding military members state(s) of residence.

In Minnesota, the permit to purchase a pistol or resident CCL would be an adequate government issued document for the spouse to prove residency to an FFL and they could use any other government photo ID to prove identity.

It won't be long before someone comes along and confuses "home of record" state with state of residence. I have had a Wyoming driver's license for 30 years now. My military "home of record" state is Wyoming. For the purposes of firearms transactions, I have NOT been a resident of Wyoming for 20+ years. Where you are registered to vote, where you pay taxes, and where you maintain a driver's license may indicate what your state of residence is - but it does not establish your actual state of residence for firearms transactions - actual state of residence for firearms transactions is where you sleep at night, and for military members where you are ordered to go to work every day.

 

[Mwhite732]

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Page 7 of the above document:
Federal Law 18 USC 921 (b):
(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in which his
permanent duty station is located.

Page 39 of the above document:
27 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 478.11:
State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individual's
State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located.

Pages 135-136 of the above document:
ATF Rule 2001-5:
Held further, a purchaser who is a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located, and may satisfy the
identification document requirement
by presenting his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is located within the State
where the licensed premises are located.


All of the above applies ONLY TO THE MILITARY MEMBER and not the spouse or other dependents. In order to purchase a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in the new state, they must obtain the "standard" proof of residency such as an in state driver's license or state ID card - or present some other government issued document that proves their new state of residency. Spouses and dependents are not issued military change of station orders. I would recommend you read the entire section on pages 135-136 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide as it contains complete information regarding military members state(s) of residence.

In Minnesota, the permit to purchase a pistol or resident CCL would be an adequate government issued document for the spouse to prove residency to an FFL and they could use any other government photo ID to prove identity.

It won't be long before someone comes along and confuses "home of record" state with state of residence. I have had a Wyoming driver's license for 30 years now. My military "home of record" state is Wyoming. For the purposes of firearms transactions, I have NOT been a resident of Wyoming for 20+ years. Where you are registered to vote, where you pay taxes, and where you maintain a driver's license may indicate what your state of residence is - but it does not establish your actual state of residence for firearms transactions - actual state of residence for firearms transactions is where you sleep at night, and for military members where you are ordered to go to work every day.

This is more than what I could ask of you fine Americans. Amazingly informative answer. Thanks very much sir.

Semper fi

Mwhite

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is more than what I could ask of you fine Americans. Amazingly informative answer. Thanks very much sir.

Semper fi

Mwhite

No problem. Been in the military more than thirty years, bought firearms in a couple of different states, and since becoming an officer, I have been the division officer for literally 1000+ sailors. This is a pretty easy question I don't know if Minnesota allows it, but Washington allows milittary members and their dependents to obtain Washington state ID cards and keep their out of state driver's licenses, which solves the problem of firearms purchasing in Washington for the family members.

Also, since I renewed my Wyoming driver's license by mail when living in Washington, I have a Wyoming driver's license with a Washington residence address on it

 

[1911_Marine]

[/QUOTE]Wrong. Wives don't get military change of station orders.[/QUOTE]

My wife's name is prominently on my orders... and she rates the same privileges as I do when it comes to residency. She has a Florida resident CWP and a California drivers license. I do not claim to know all of the laws everywhere and you need to ask the LGS in your state. They will be happy to answer your questions and most like military.

 

[tthirion]

I have seen several people with out of state ccw's purchase at two different gun stores here in MN. Last one was from Madison WI, all he needed was his ID and his CCW..I don't know if this will help, but you can call your favorite gun shop and talk to them.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My wife's name is prominently on my orders... and she rates the same privileges as I do when it comes to residency. She has a Florida resident CWP and a California drivers license. I do not claim to know all of the laws everywhere and you need to ask the LGS in your state. They will be happy to answer your questions and most like military.

The US Government cannot order your wife to live in a certain state or report for duty in a certain state, unless she signed the contract as an active duty member of the armed forces.

Being a resident of a state and having the required identification documents required by the Brady Law to purchase a firearm from an FFL are two entirely separate subjects. Military orders with your wife's name on them in the dependents section does not establish residency in a state for the purposes of firearms transactions for your wife. Let's say you have orders to Washington, D.C. but you live in a house in Virginia. What state is your wife a resident of, assuming she lives in the house in Virginia with you (for the purposes of firearms transactions)? Virginia.

What does establish residency in a state for your wife is, according to 27 CFR 478.11 "State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State." That is the definition of state of residence for your wife. Does her name on military orders meet that requirement? NO. You can have orders to a duty location and your wife can live somewhere else entirely.

27 CFR 478.11 goes on to further define state of residence as "If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located." Is your wife an active duty member of the Armed Forces? Maybe she is, maybe she isn't, I don't know. But just being a dependent does not meet that definition,

27 CFR 478.11 also defines the identification document required to purchase a firearm from an FFL as "Identification document. A document containing the name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder and which was made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State, a foreign government, political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international quasi-governmental organization which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals."

Do your active duty orders with your wife's name on them contain your residence address? NO. Does your wife's dependent ID card and your orders to active duty in a state with her name as a dependent on them meet the requirements for identification to an FFL? NO, because neither one of those two documents will have a residence address on them. Remember - duty station location as residency applies ONLY to the ACTIVE DUTY service member.

The minute your wife steps foot in a state with the intention of living there, as your dependent, certainly does make her a resident of that state (for firearms transactions). HOWEVER, she cannot meet the identification requirements to purchase a firearm from an FFL with your orders and her military dependent ID card alone. If you have orders to D.C. and you live in Virginia, your wife is not present in D.C. with the intention of making a home there and is not a resident of D.C. and your orders to D.C. do not change that fact. She is present in Virginia with the intention of making a home there, and is a resident of Virginia (for firearms transactions). For example.

I have seen several people with out of state ccw's purchase at two different gun stores here in MN. Last one was from Madison WI, all he needed was his ID and his CCW..I don't know if this will help, but you can call your favorite gun shop and talk to them.

It is a violation of Federal law [18 USC 922 (b)(1)] for an FFL to transfer a firearm other than a rifle or a shotgun to a resident of a different state than where their business is located in.