Private Security Officer Asks To See Your Permit

[Treo]

Two people walking to a car in a parking garage at night. One (Female) is intoxicated the other (Male) doesn’t appear to be. They are arguing and the security guard approaches them and asks if everything’s OK. The female turns to the guard and tells him that her buddy has a gun.

The guard asked the buddy “Do you have a gun sir?’ The buddy responds in the affirmative and the guard asks if he has a permit. Again, the buddy replies yes.

The guard then states that the police have been notified, they’re on their way and would the buddy mind if the guard secured his weapon until the police arrive. I want to be perfectly clear that this was a request the guard did not demand the weapon.

The buddy turns his weapon over to the guard and the guard holds it until the police arrive.

To be clear the guard didn’t demand anything in this scenario he asked if the guy was armed, he asked if he could see the permit and he asked if he could secure the weapon until the police arrived.
The buddy voluntarily complied W/ the guards's requests

So what would you do if a private security guard asked to inspect your permit and secure you weapon? Would you comply? Would you wait for the police?

 

[Twodollarpistol]

I work for a private security company and as I understand it, we do not have the authority to make such request unless the individual is acting in a dangerous or irrational manner.
On the other hand if I was the individual with the gun and I was behaving in a legal and responsible manner, I would advise that I would wait for the police to arrive. I would then be careful to keep my hands in full view at all times and try to not do anything to make the security officer nervous. He just trying to do his job in most cases and not trying to be a jerk.

 

[Treo]

I would advise that I would wait for the police to arrive.

What is your rationale for waiting for the police? The guard has no legal authority to detain you in this situation (under Colorado law) so if you stay and wait for the police you're doing so voluntarily

 

[ricardo900]

I definitely would not show him my permit or hand over my firearm or wait for the police. Since the guard does not have the authority to detain me or probably handle a weapon. Many security guards are buffs (wannabe cops) so many of them will step beyond their authority.

 

[Pokey]

Maybe the guard thought that he also had been drinking, and you can't drink and carry. Of course had she not been a drunken blabbermouth, things may not have escalated to the point they did. Just sayin............

 

[Jay]

If one picks his/her acquaintances more carefully, the issue won't arise. Drunks are a public liability, anyway.

But to answer the question..... the security gent would NOT get anything from me except, "good night", as I drove away.

 

[bcarroll]

I work for a private security company and as I understand it, we do not have the authority to make such request unless the individual is acting in a dangerous or irrational manner.
On the other hand if I was the individual with the gun and I was behaving in a legal and responsible manner, I would advise that I would wait for the police to arrive. I would then be careful to keep my hands in full view at all times and try to not do anything to make the security officer nervous. He just trying to do his job in most cases and not trying to be a jerk.

I tend to agree with you. The arrest powers of a security company are that of a average person (felony's). They are agents of the company's that hire their security. With that said. I would not admit to haveing a weapon. Or show them any ID (type needed for ccw). And in no way turn a loaded weapon over. Now it must be understood. You give as much respect as that is showed. but I wouldnt give my weapon over to a sales clerk!!!!! Much less any other agent of said company. Now as far as arizona I would be within my legal rights.

 

[walt629]

Private Security = Rent a cop

My decisions would depend mainly on wether or not the security guard is armed and does he look like he's ready to pop. Is he under control or is he ready to go Barney Fife.

As I understand Florida law, typically, by the action of, in this case parking in or short cutting through the private property, I have accepted the terms and conditions of being on the premises. So in that case, compliance with the guards concerns would be a courtesy and the guard would probably expect compliance. To give him a hard time might send him into Barney Fife mode.

I have a hard time envisioning any scenario where I would turn my weapon over to any private citizen. And make no mistake about it that guard is a private citizen with no more legal stance to request the surrender of your arm than the neighbor down the street.

Since the guard has already instigated the events about to take place, some compliance might be in order.

I would put my intoxicated lady friend in the car, thank the guard for his concern, question his reasoning for summoning the authorities all the time maintaining control of my weapon on my person.

There is no legal reason for me to hang around for the police to arrive. I've done nothing wrong and the guard is sure not capable of making a judgement call as to my condition nor does he have legal tender to make me stay. However, to beat feet right now might raise a suspicion with the responding police, so it probably be best to hang around for the police to arrive.

 

[S&W645]

Guard would be told that I do have a permit to carry and that would be all until the police arrive. Guard does not have the right to see it or handle it or the gun. Would then wait for the police to arrive.

 

[Daven]

If I hadn't broken any local laws or rules of the place I was at, I would NEVER comply and hand over my permit much less my GUN to anyone other than a sworn officer, how do you know that RAC knows how to handle a gun? what if he turned all "wanta-be-a-cop" on you and aimed it at you? No way! Sounds like he was NOT breaking any laws and I agree with previous reply's, "thank you and good-bye" and drive away, if I was doing something wrong a cop can pull me over later.

But then again, I don't generally hang out with people who get that drunk. (not that there's anything wrong with it).

 

[Twodollarpistol]

Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner. Dont ever fool yourself into thinking diffrent. And I guarantee the local LEOs will back him up. Why else would he be there?
In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police. Resulting in further confusion and problems when you are apprehended and investigated. All of which could be avoided by waiting for the police and cooperating completly on the spot. Of course, If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.

 

[SouthernBoy]

I would not show any ID of any type, would not wait for the police (the reason of them being summoned was not stated), and I would bit him good night and leave. Furthermore, I don't believe I would have answered in the affirmative to the question of whether or not I was armed.

 

[Ed Hamberger]

Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner. Dont ever fool yourself into thinking diffrent. And I guarantee the local LEOs will back him up. Why else would he be there?
In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police. Resulting in further confusion and problems when you are apprehended and investigated. All of which could be avoided by waiting for the police and cooperating completly on the spot. Of course, If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.

In the state of North Carolina a private contract security officer only has the right to detain if they see a felony being enacted, or suspect a felony is about to happen. Citizens Arrest is not authorized in this state, so therefore security officers cannot arrest either. Their ONLY purpose by state law is to OBSERVE, DETECT, & REPORT, nothing more... leasantry:

 

[Treo]

Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner.

In Colorado, where this incident took place, a merchant guard only has citizen's arrest authority. He can detain you only if he witnesses you commit a crime. He has no legal authority to detain you for the purposes of investigation (IOW if he didn’t actually witness you commit the crime he has no authority to stop you and question you about the crime)

In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police.

In the real incident this scenario was drawn from the guard had no way of knowing which car the couple were headed to because he stopped them before they got to it, ergo no plate number to give to the police. Also having worked for this particular company while I was in college (which is how I know about this incident) I know that they train their guards to tell people the police have already been notified whether they have or not. While I know that CSPD was contacted and did respond it is unlikely that they had already been called at the time the guard made contact.

If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.

This situation "worked out" by the guard being dismissed from that site for overstepping his bounds the next day.

 

[davcolburn]

What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence (I met one of our local sheriff's deputies last Christmas in one of our local department stores working security).

 

[Treo]

What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence

Until he identifies himself as an LEO and presents credentials I am not obligated to give him any more cooperation than I would a security guard.

 

[S&W645]

What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence (I met one of our local sheriff's deputies last Christmas in one of our local department stores working security).

If he is an off duty cop, he would be carrying his duty badge. And down here, likely in uniform of his Dept. He still wouldn't see the permit till the on duty cops showed up if he wasn't. There are plenty of wannabe cops out there including ones with "Police", "FBI", "CPB", "SWAT" t-shirts and phoney badges. Just like if you get stopped at night by an unmarked car/pickup, you have the right to go to a well lit place and have a marked patrol unit arrive. And that comes direct from the local LEOs.

Our bank now has an off duty officer for security. He is in uniform and has his car with him any time he is there. Our bank was the victim of an attempted armoured car robbery. The AC guards shot both subjects and put a fatal shot into the getaway driver.

Link Removed

 

[CathyInBlue]

It's pretty universal that private security has only the same powers as a private citizen, namely: Observe, Record, Report, and only Confront or Detain if they have direct knowledge of a felony by the person they accost. This includes the off-duty police officer moonlighting as a security guard. The only legal difference between a civilian who passed the 6 hour video course and an off-duty cop moonlighting is the off-duty cop is more likely to know the color of the day when they call 911 with their badge number and get the police there all the sooner.

As to the idea that they have the authority to detain anyone on the private property they are assigned to secure, as seen in the real life scenario from the OP, just accosting with no attempt to arrest got the guard reassigned. What private security guards do have the absolute power to do is to demand you take your crap and get off the property now, now, now.

Within reason. It can't be for a discriminatory reason. There was a case in the Carolinas of a lesbian couple holding hands outside and sharing a peck on the lips and some security guard lost his nut and demanded they take their unacceptable behaviour and leave, backed up by his supervisor. They both, along with the security company and the mall management company got excoriated in the media and had to back pedal like mad.

WRT the OP's scenario, I'll further assume that the pair are going to her car and he's gonna take her keys when they get there and drive her home, but that she retains the keys to her own car.

Now, the rent-a-cop accosts me, I simple state, "She's too drunk to drive. I'm driving her home. Thank you for your concern." Very calmly and mater of factly.

Idiot bitch says I have a gun and the rent-a-cop asks for confirmation, I tell him again, "Thank you for your concern. Do not interfere." To her, I say, "We're going to your car. You have the keys. You're three sheets to the wind. Assuming you manage to get the cops here, how do you imagine you're going to get me in more trouble than yourself?"

Now, the rent-a-cop presses for confirmation on my firearm status as well as my permit status, I simply reiterate, "Thank you for your concern. Do not interfere. We are leaving." I would pack her off into the passenger's side of the car, take the keys, get in the driver's side, and egress the parking structure, paying the tab on the way out if necessary.

Now, in the case of Barney fife turning out to have his single bullet in his gun and not his pocket, if the rent-a-cop at any time gets belligerent or draws his sidearm on me, it becomes just like any other civilian on civilian violence, and despite any other claims to the contrary, all of my tactics at that point are to insure that I go home alive that night.

 

[S&W645]

It's pretty universal that private security has only the same powers as a private citizen, namely: Observe, Record, Report, and only Confront or Detain if they have direct knowledge of a felony by the person they accost.
....
Now, in the case of Barney fife turning out to have his single bullet in his gun and not his pocket, if the rent-a-cop at any time gets belligerent or draws his sidearm on me, it becomes just like any other civilian on civilian violence, and despite any other claims to the contrary, all of my tactics at that point are to insure that I go home alive that night.

And because they don't have any more powers than a citizen, many are not armed. Too much risk for many companies of a Barney Fife type.

 

[HootmonSccy]

The situation has been pretty well covered..

I say, it's time to hang out with a different lady friend.. This one will only get you into more, and probably worse, trouble in the future!!