Poll - OC or CC


If both OC and CC is/were an option, which of the following best applies to you:


  • Total voters
    122

S&WM&P40

New member
As do big business. ADT alarm company puts signs in yards and stickers on windows. Brinks and Guardia use marked and armored cars and visibly armed security guards. All the car alarm companies have the flashing red light in the dash visible from outside the car. Funny how none of those companies rely upon the "element of surprise" isn't it? You would think with all their experience, research and resources they would know better.



I must disagree. The poll is skewed because of the KNOWN aduience that was asked to participate. It is known that the majority of posters on this forum are CC only ravers. Ask the same poll at OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost! ... and you would get equally skewed results in favor of OC ravers.

Hey now I'm PRO CHOICE DON"T LUMP ME in the same boat as those Martian's!!!!
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
Excuse me? Im not on the forum as nuch as I use to be, did the winds change? For a couple years I basically lived on this forum and NEVER saw an OC chastise a CC without being provoked first. Mostly I saw anti OCs start threads about why CC is better or OC is bad.

Take a closer look. Most of the full-time OCers seem to be offended that somebody would choose CC over OC. Their venom is quite palpable. Makes me wonder about their true motivations for OCing. Like an old playwrite once said (sorta) - Methinks they doth protest too much.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
I happen to believe that the idea of OCing always deterring crime is a myth. Ditto for the idea that surprise has no defensive applications, and for the idea that a BG wouldn't treat an OCer as any more of a threat than they would somebody without a pistol on their hip.

Myths are in the eyes of the beholder. Believe what you want. I have no problem with it.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Take a closer look. Most of the full-time OCers seem to be offended that somebody would choose CC over OC. Their venom is quite palpable. Makes me wonder about their true motivations for OCing. Like an old playwrite once said (sorta) - Methinks they doth protest too much.

And we have to wonder about the motives for Conceal Carrying. You would rather a criminal go ahead and attack you because you look like every other victim in the public so that you can use your "element of surprise" and shoot someone? If you have a choice between deterrence and active defense, you prefer active defense so that you can be judge, jury and possibly executioner? You would rather put your family through the trauma of the initial attack, the defense to the attack, and the possibly civil and criminal court cases rather than take the chance that a criminal might be deterred by your gun?

I too believe and agree that "open carry will deter every crime" is a myth. But if it deters just one attack against me and my family, then I have accomplished my goal. There is simply no evidence that open carry presents any more danger to the person carrying the gun, so the benefit of possible deterrence of even one attack far outweighs the purely theoretical added danger. It's not about absolutes because there are no absolutes. All we state - with factual evidence - is that, for us, the benefit of possible deterrence of open carry far outweighs any theorized added risk.

I also agree that the "element of surprise" will enhance the effectiveness of any attack, whether that attack be the initial attack by the criminal, or the defensive attack by the victim. The problem is the huge gamble associated with the "element of surprise" because when it comes time for the victim to exercise their "element of surprise" it is against a criminal who already has gained the advantage. It is a gamble that your "element of surprise" will overcome the criminal's already gained advantage. That's a gamble I simply will not entrust my life, or my family's lives to.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
Take a closer look. Most of the full-time OCers seem to be offended that somebody would choose CC over OC. Their venom is quite palpable. Makes me wonder about their true motivations for OCing. Like an old playwrite once said (sorta) - Methinks they doth protest too much.
Whether you OC or CC, doesn't matter to me. Don't try to tell me my choice is wrong, and I won't do the same to you.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Whether you OC or CC, doesn't matter to me. Don't try to tell me my choice is wrong, and I won't do the same to you.

I would not say we tell them their choice is wrong. We just tell them why their excuses they use to tell us we are wrong don't hold water or pass any common sense check.
 

Firefighterchen

OC for Tactical Advantage
NavyLCDR:224697 said:
Whether you OC or CC, doesn't matter to me. Don't try to tell me my choice is wrong, and I won't do the same to you.

I would not say we tell them their choice is wrong. We just tell them why their excuses they use to tell us we are wrong don't hold water or pass any common sense check.

That must be the palpable hate he is taking about? Do you have any more tissues for him navy?
 

Big Gay Al

New member
I would not say we tell them their choice is wrong. We just tell them why their excuses they use to tell us we are wrong don't hold water or pass any common sense check.
I think we've been trying that. So far, they don't listen to that either.

But what else is new? So far, the anti-OC part of the CC crowd seem to think they know everything. It's not our fault they don't. :biggrin:
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
I believe Navy LCDR already answered it for me, and very well I might add. :biggrin:

Sorry Al, but I've been skipping over his posts for quite some time now. Are you afraid to answer the question yourself?? Remember.....you said "There are times when I prefer to conceal. Usually when I don't feel 100%, and there fore don't think I'll be as alert as I should be when I OC."

Why do you need to be more alert when OCing as opposed to CCing?? Do you find that OCing has an added element of danger that CCing doesn't?? If you could please clarify this for me otherwise I'll have to believe that you've put your foot in your mouth and betrayed your true feelings.

Eagerly awaiting your answer.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
Whether you OC or CC, doesn't matter to me. Don't try to tell me my choice is wrong, and I won't do the same to you.

I've never told you or any OCer that their choice is wrong for them.....only wrong for me. You and your ilk can hardly say the same.

Still waiting for you to explain your statement where you said you need to be more alert for OC than for CC.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
Sorry Al, but I've been skipping over his posts for quite some time now. Are you afraid to answer the question yourself?? Remember.....you said "There are times when I prefer to conceal. Usually when I don't feel 100%, and there fore don't think I'll be as alert as I should be when I OC."

Why do you need to be more alert when OCing as opposed to CCing?? Do you find that OCing has an added element of danger that CCing doesn't?? If you could please clarify this for me otherwise I'll have to believe that you've put your foot in your mouth and betrayed your true feelings.

Eagerly awaiting your answer.
As NavyLCDR already explained, "Because the reality is when open carrying one must remain alert for the anti-gun cop, or the CC only raver who is going to wet themselves at the opportunity to hassle a law abiding citizen."

I'll also just add, it's only prudent to be more alert when OCing, as opposed to CCing. Some might say you should be alert at all times. There are places, where that's necessary, regardless of your method of carry, and there are places where you don't really need to be all that alert. You should know yourself, where and when you are in either area.

No, I do not OC 100% of the time. I have relatives who are as rabidly anti-gun as Sarah Brady. If I visit their house, I conceal. There are other situations, but I'm sure everyone has their own situations where concealing is preferable to OCing. It generally has more to do with not upsetting the hoplophobes, than anything else.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
I've never told you or any OCer that their choice is wrong for them.....only wrong for me. You and your ilk can hardly say the same.

Still waiting for you to explain your statement where you said you need to be more alert for OC than for CC.
When did I ever say YOU must OC? So far as I recall, I've only responded to the myths people use to try to convince me and "others of my ilk" (what is an "ilk" anyway?) that OCing is too dangerous, or provocative, or whatever. I don't go into the CC forum and start picking at those that CC, cause I CC on occasion myself. In fact, I started out CCing when I first my my CPL.

And, in the Winter time, I generally CC, since my coat usually covers my weapon, until I get to where I'm going. And I don't like to use thigh holsters.

If you think I'm trying to convince YOU that you should OC, you're reading stuff between the lines that I didn't put there.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
As NavyLCDR already explained, "Because the reality is when open carrying one must remain alert for the anti-gun cop, or the CC only raver who is going to wet themselves at the opportunity to hassle a law abiding citizen."

I'll also just add, it's only prudent to be more alert when OCing, as opposed to CCing. Some might say you should be alert at all times. There are places, where that's necessary, regardless of your method of carry, and there are places where you don't really need to be all that alert. You should know yourself, where and when you are in either area.

No, I do not OC 100% of the time. I have relatives who are as rabidly anti-gun as Sarah Brady. If I visit their house, I conceal. There are other situations, but I'm sure everyone has their own situations where concealing is preferable to OCing. It generally has more to do with not upsetting the hoplophobes, than anything else.

Weak, Al. Weak, weak, weak.

"Alert for the anti-gun cop or the CC only raver"??? Why, do they carry signs saying that they're anti-gun or anti-OC, thereby allowing you to quickly cover your pistol before they can harass you?? No, they don't....so there's no way for you to know the difference between those who care and those who don't.

In the "10 Reasons For Open Carry" thread you said:
"I've OCed since about 2009, 99.5% of the time, NO ONE notices my gun. Which is sort of hard to figure, since I generally carry a full size semi-Auto pistol, like this one.

In the 3 or so years I've been OCing, I've only been "hassled" one time, by a greeter at Meijer's, whom I have passed many times before while OCing, and he finally noticed my gun that day. :)"


Is that why you need to be more alert while OCing....store greeters?? Do you get up in the morning and say "I don't feel too well....I better CC today 'casue the old guy at Walmart might challenge me"?? Is that what you're talking about when you speak of a need to be more alert when OCing???

Somehow I don't think so. You're "Yeah yeah that's it...that's the ticket....that's what I meant" response is a bit feeble to say the least. Not sure why you're so afraid to "come out of the closet" and just admit to what so many other realize - that sometimes OCing is more dangerous than CCing and that appropriate steps should be taken in such instances. Admit it, Al. After all....you pretty much already have with your "not 100% statement".
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
And, in the Winter time, I generally CC, since my coat usually covers my weapon, until I get to where I'm going. And I don't like to use thigh holsters.

Ohhhhhh....so now you CC even more than you let on to earlier! Why would you give up all of your so-called advantages just because the weather is cold?? Lots of cold weather in Michigan, huh? During the winter do the BGs rob people and places by saying something like "I have a gun under my coat and if you don't give me all your money I'm going to unbutton it and take my pistol out"?? Is that what they do? BGs don't hibernate, do they Al? I'm sure you can buy a belt long enough go around the outside of your jacket, thereby allowing you to attach a holster and still OC no matter what the weather. Heck, there are plenty of winter jackets that already have an exterior belt built-in! Why not use one of those instead of spending months having to give up all the advantages of OCing??

You're going around in circles, Al.....contradicting yourself and making rather dubious statements.
 

missoak

Member
Here in Mi. we have the option either way. I choose to CC 100%. Until the average citizen can accept OC & not point & stare or freak out, I'll continue to CC.Wish things were different, but for now I just don't feel the need to OC. Maybe I'm blind to it, but I'm out & about alot, & I've only seen 2 OCer's. Both of them looked like gangsta's. Badly dressed, unkept,etc. If that's the image most folks see, no wonder there's such a paranoid response to OC. Not saying all OCer's are like that.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
Weak, Al. Weak, weak, weak.

"Alert for the anti-gun cop or the CC only raver"??? Why, do they carry signs saying that they're anti-gun or anti-OC, thereby allowing you to quickly cover your pistol before they can harass you?? No, they don't....so there's no way for you to know the difference between those who care and those who don't.

In the "10 Reasons For Open Carry" thread you said:
"I've OCed since about 2009, 99.5% of the time, NO ONE notices my gun. Which is sort of hard to figure, since I generally carry a full size semi-Auto pistol, like this one.

In the 3 or so years I've been OCing, I've only been "hassled" one time, by a greeter at Meijer's, whom I have passed many times before while OCing, and he finally noticed my gun that day. :)"


Is that why you need to be more alert while OCing....store greeters?? Do you get up in the morning and say "I don't feel too well....I better CC today 'casue the old guy at Walmart might challenge me"?? Is that what you're talking about when you speak of a need to be more alert when OCing???

Somehow I don't think so. You're "Yeah yeah that's it...that's the ticket....that's what I meant" response is a bit feeble to say the least. Not sure why you're so afraid to "come out of the closet" and just admit to what so many other realize - that sometimes OCing is more dangerous than CCing and that appropriate steps should be taken in such instances. Admit it, Al. After all....you pretty much already have with your "not 100% statement".
To quote Han Solo "[BAM] Boring conversation anyway."
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Ohhhhhh....so now you CC even more than you let on to earlier! Why would you give up all of your so-called advantages just because the weather is cold?? Lots of cold weather in Michigan, huh? During the winter do the BGs rob people and places by saying something like "I have a gun under my coat and if you don't give me all your money I'm going to unbutton it and take my pistol out"?? Is that what they do? BGs don't hibernate, do they Al? I'm sure you can buy a belt long enough go around the outside of your jacket, thereby allowing you to attach a holster and still OC no matter what the weather. Heck, there are plenty of winter jackets that already have an exterior belt built-in! Why not use one of those instead of spending months having to give up all the advantages of OCing??

You're going around in circles, Al.....contradicting yourself and making rather dubious statements.

Here's the deal, but of course B2Tall won't see this... we just don't center our lives around our guns. We don't look at a shirt on the rack and wonder if it will conceal our gun enough or not. We don't check in a mirror or window we walk by to check if we are printing. We don't buy pants one size too big to account for our IWB holsters.

When I go out, I simply put my cell phone in one pocket, slide my paddle holster over my belt on the other side and go out the door. If it's winter time, and I wear a winter coat, the gun simply gets covered up. We aren't, and never have, said that the deterrent affect of the openly carried firearm cures everything. I have, however, seen many CC only people say that the "element of surprise" is THE gospel of self defense, and no matter what never give up the "element of surprise" unless a cop happens to approach them and those same people seem to be the same crowd that rolls over and shoves their ID cards and CPLs into a cops had while proclaiming to them exactly where their gun is.

That's another area of my life where the gun just doesn't matter. In my state, I am not legally obligated to tell police about my gun, and I simply don't feel the need to change anything because of my gun in that area either.

To most of us, open carry is just a normal thing that happens, just like putting the cell phone or car keys in the pocket. The only thing we insist upon in these discussions is that we prefer to present facts based upon research, evidence and examples that the majority of criminals are simply not going to bother with the citizen they KNOW is armed. The majority of criminals are going to move on. And that's our goal, to allow our guns to be a normal part of our lives and take advantage of the fact that the presence of the gun is likely to cause the criminal to just leave us alone.

It really is humorous - the guys who feel the need to hide their guns the most are the ones making the biggest deal out of the presence of their guns!
 
why does it matther if you want to oc or you want to cc? i oc and i have no issue with those who chose to cc. it doesn't matter how you carry a gun as long as you have a gun on you.
 

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