Police restaurant carry

[AndeyHall]

Here's another issue I would like to hear argued: I see cops carrying a firearm into restaurants that serve alcohol on their lunch breaks all the time. I know people generally believe that the police "are trained" to do these sorts of things and these laws done apply to them, but as we have had many heated conversations about before, they do not get granted any special privileges just because they are a cop.

Now here's my BIGGEST issue right now with this restaurant carry bill. As many have stated in my thread about cops disobeying traffic laws, they are not granted ANY privileges outside of the law simply because they are a cop. Is that 100% true? The reason I ask is because it would make sense, seeing as every gun law that cops don't have to abide by has a subsection that states that it does not apply to on-duty police officers (as well as a long list of others). But if this is true, there is absolutely no subsection of SC law pertaining to carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol that exempts police officers. Does this sound accurate or am I missing something?

 

[kelcarry]

I hate to sound silly in my reply but they are the police--who is going to arrest them? Being serious though, I would think it is a given that the police are granted latitude, written in the law or not, on what they do. When that "latitude" is taken to the extreme and they cross a very obvious line (recent off duty N. Charleston officer in patrol car and drunk and wrecked same--she will be gone as soon as the legal paperwork is finished) they pay the price. You can only hope that the line they cross does not get someone else injured or killed. I tend to think that the thinking on exemptions for police (retired or not) is the idea that having someone "fully trained" on duty or off is a presence that helps all of us from becoming a BG's victim.
Personally I surely hope CC in restaurants with alcohol passes. It is the most obvious (to me) and most frightening of the exclusions in the current CC law. Going and coming from a restaurant in downtown Charleston, particularly at night, when my car is either on a darkened street or a parking garage gives my situational awareness fits as it is completely voided by law. Those opposed are so wrong when they look at this as if it will be a shootout in the Lucky Day saloon among drunks--ridiculous fantasy. The only people who are in that category are people who are CC illegally with no permit and my situational awareness will never have me being there in the first place. Having police--off duty or not--in such a place would be a welcome presence. They like the rest of us, however, better not be drinking to the point that it is obvious they are drunk or above the 08 driving level.

 

[hp-hobo]

Now for the non-statist, non-authority worshipping answer.
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I DO NOT agree with this because badges don't grant extra rights. But SC law does in fact support their ability to do so. You are more likely to be shot by a cop than by a bad guy - unless they're aiming at you.
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SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
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It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
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(1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;

 

[AndeyHall]

Now for the non-statist, authority worshipping answer.
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I DO NOT agree with this because badges don't grant extra rights. But SC law does in fact support their ability to do so. You are more likely to be shot by a cop than by a bad guy - unless they're aiming at you.
.
.
SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
.
It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
.
(1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;

That section is what I am referring to. The section of law stating that it is illegal to carry a gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol would apply to "unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law". There is absolutely nothing in 16-23-465 that grants the police that right.

 

[AndeyHall]

Listen I respect the hell out of LEO's (the ones worth respecting, that is), and I'm not trying to sound like a sore loser tattle tail. But I went through a hell of a lot of trouble for South Carolina to grant me a right that is supposed to be guaranteed and free in the first place. Then they go and exclude one of the most frequent places anyone goes from the list places we are allowed to carry. Then we have cops who, from what I can see in the law books, have no more right to carry there than I do, on duty or not, yet they're given a pass simply because of where their paycheck comes from? And the main reason I want to bring this up is because of all of the alleged LEOs that testified before the senate when this bill and 115 were first introduced about how they don't think it should be allowed...as if they're some elite group of individuals. I just want to prove a point to the democrats and the LEOs who think they're the only ones who should have these privileges.

 

[izaclown]

Saw an LEO walking through the hallways of a local SC college the other day. Gun and (what looked like a) badge in plain view on his hip. How in your face is that??? A jacket covering it would have been nice...

 

[nca_mm]

I've only ever spoken to 2 cops in my life that support a citizens right to carry. Most don't want us non-badged folks carrying anywhere.

 

[Steve Kittel]

Typically, LEO and similar people are specifically excluded in certain carry laws. If the law doesn't say you cannot do it, then it isn't against the law. Sometimes you may see that it says a person "may" do something in one statute, but then will go on to say unless it is specifically prohibited by a specific statute. I think it is a real pain to have to cross reference the numerous statutes regarding carrying. An LEO or other exempt person cannot drink alcohol while carrying concealed about their person, so why can't regular citizens go to a restaurant, like Applebee's, that has the restaurant separate from the bar? I hope we can work to change that in N.C. too, now that we have a Republican government...


§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
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(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14‑415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2 <i>(educational property)</i>, 14‑269.3 <i>(assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.)</i>, and 14‑277.2 <i>(any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration).</i>


§ 14‑269.3 Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(b) This section shall not apply to the following:

(b)(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269; <i>(G.S. 14-269(b) outlines the persons to whom this does not apply)</i>
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(b)(5) Sworn law‑enforcement officers, when off‑duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body;

 

[hp-hobo]

That section is what I am referring to. The section of law stating that it is illegal to carry a gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol would apply to "unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law". There is absolutely nothing in 16-23-465 that grants the police that right.

Yes. Yes it does. 16-23-465 specifically says;
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"Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on-premises consumption. Blah, blah, blah..."
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And according to 16-23-20 it is "lawful" for a cop to carry. Tell me this. A cop can CC even if they don't have a CWP. And of course they can OC. Why aren't you complaining about that? Because 16-23-20 says they can. Just another example of how in South Carolina we don't have the right to carry, we have the privilege, and that there is more than one class of citizen.

 

[hp-hobo]

Saw an LEO walking through the hallways of a local SC college the other day. Gun and (what looked like a) badge in plain view on his hip. How in your face is that??? A jacket covering it would have been nice...

Because it's scary to see a gun. Covering them makes you safer...

 

[speedy7637]

Typically, LEO and similar people are specifically excluded in certain carry laws. If the law doesn't say you cannot do it, then it isn't against the law. Sometimes you may see that it says a person "may" do something in one statute, but then will go on to say unless it is specifically prohibited by a specific statute. I think it is a real pain to have to cross reference the numerous statutes regarding carrying. An LEO or other exempt person cannot drink alcohol while carrying concealed about their person, so why can't regular citizens go to a restaurant, like Applebee's, that has the restaurant separate from the bar? I hope we can work to change that in N.C. too, now that we have a Republican government...


§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
.
.
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14‑415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2 <i>(educational property)</i>, 14‑269.3 <i>(assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.)</i>, and 14‑277.2 <i>(any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration).</i>


§ 14‑269.3 Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(b) This section shall not apply to the following:

(b)(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269; <i>(G.S. 14-269(b) outlines the persons to whom this does not apply)</i>
.
.
(b)(5) Sworn law‑enforcement officers, when off‑duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body;

Law enforcement have PROFESSIONAL permits to carry and are also covered under federal Law HR-218. There permits don't have limitations on where they can carry. I understand your frustration but they are police officers, and part of there job is to carry a firearm. In some cases they are to carry a weapon off duty as well.

 

[AndeyHall]

That section is what I am referring to. The section of law stating that it is illegal to carry a gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol would apply to "unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law". There is absolutely nothing in 16-23-465 that grants the police that right.

Yes. Yes it does. 16-23-465 specifically says;
.
"Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on-premises consumption. Blah, blah, blah..."
.
And according to 16-23-20 it is "lawful" for a cop to carry. Tell me this. A cop can CC even if they don't have a CWP. And of course they can OC. Why aren't you complaining about that? Because 16-23-20 says they can. Just another example of how in South Carolina we don't have the right to carry, we have the privilege, and that there is more than one class of citizen.

Well then where do they define what is "unlawfully" carrying into a restaurant that serves alcohol?

 

[speedy7637]

That is for us everyday people. It doesn't pertain to the police there permits don't determine on or off-duty its all the time for them. I totally get what your saying.

 

[hp-hobo]

Well then where do they define what is "unlawfully" carrying into a restaurant that serves alcohol?

Don't know, haven't found that yet. And I can't afford to be the test case. Most of the time I just do whatever I have to to stay out of jail. Nod, nod, wink, wink...

 

[tricolordad]

Saw an LEO walking through the hallways of a local SC college the other day. Gun and (what looked like a) badge in plain view on his hip. How in your face is that??? A jacket covering it would have been nice...

Wow, that 2mm of fabric sure makes you feel better. Do you take your blankie to class just in case you see something scawy?

 

[The_Outlaw]

I've only ever spoken to 2 cops in my life that support a citizens right to carry. Most don't want us non-badged folks carrying anywhere.

My hispanic brother-in-law is a cop with the L.A.P.D. I have heard him say (on more than one occasion) that only cops should have guns and the majority of the sheeple in the discussion agreed with him (except me of course).

I never really liked my brother-in-law, he has always been an arrogant jerk imvho.

 

[gejoslin]

I know the laws about carrying gets pretty confusing. Here in AR you can not carry concealed if an establishment gets more than 51% of revenue from alcohol sales.
Now I ask you, how am I going to know that?

 

[vernsimpson]

My hispanic brother-in-law is a cop with the L.A.P.D. I have heard him say (on more than one occasion) that only cops should have guns and the majority of the sheeple in the discussion agreed with him (except me of course).

I never really liked my brother-in-law, he has always been an arrogant jerk imvho.

I have always found it funny how libs and sheeple are steadfast on their principles in discussions and debate but when the rubber hits the road they change. Such the old saying, "There are no atheists in fox holes." I and others on this forum have wondered how many in Boston wished they had a gun while they were hiding behind locked doors? I also wonder how many went out the next day and bought or at least started the process to buy a gun? Perhaps some of these tragic events may cause people to rethink the gun control plan that the lib-o-rats and obummer want. I read some stats about how many background checks there have been under obummer. The stats show that there are many who want to own a firearm. Now those stats do not show a true picture. Here in MN you can buy as many guns you care to buy using your CCL.

So Outlaw, your brother-in-law is not getting his way. :no:

Please do not think that I believe these tragic events are a good thing. They are an act of evil.

 

[hp-hobo]

My hispanic brother-in-law is a cop with the L.A.P.D. I have heard him say (on more than one occasion) that only cops should have guns and the majority of the sheeple in the discussion agreed with him (except me of course).

I never really liked my brother-in-law, he has always been an arrogant jerk imvho.

In what way is it relevant to the conversation that your brother-in-law is Hispanic? My guess is that's the reason you never really liked him...

 

[hp-hobo]

... Such the old saying, "There are no atheists in fox holes."...

I can assure you from personal experience that the old saying is wrong.