Pick em out and knock em out

[tommypotatoes]

Here's something from Chicago regarding a recent trend...

Prosecutors: 62-year-old's death just a game for 3 teens - chicagotribune.com

 

[Panheadzz]

"He was a good kid that wanted to go into law enforcement" Says it all, just what we need.

 

[jabatam]

Murder 1 is a little stiff...I'd have gone for murder 2 or manslaughter if I were the prosecutor. Hell, Zimmerman is looking at murder 2 because prosecutors believe he started the altercation that led to him discharging his firearm. I'm not defending these jackwads...they deserve to be severely punished, but they also had no intent or reason to believe their actions would cause the death of their victim. A single punch is rarely fatal.

 

[Nightmare45]

It does not matter if the punch was intended to kill or not, they chose their path and it has implications, they are part of the I am not responsible crowd. To bad so sad. The man is dead, not around anymore, happened in what city? I have no sympathy at all.

 

[golocx4]

A single punch is rarely fatal.

It's not the punch that will kill you, it's what you hit on the way down.

These guys were teens because a birth certificate make them a teen, physically they could already be an adult.
Bottom line; a teen can kill you just as easily as an adult can.

If it wasn't 90 degrees would have been wearing hoodies?
A couple of them look like what Obama's son would look like, if he had a son.

Where is the missing bag of skittles, a photo shopped picture, a few doctored 911 tapes, some liberal hyperbole, the Reverend Jessie Jackson and you have a national incident whereas the dead victim had it coming because:
A) He should have simply complied to the boys request, as soon has he ignored the boys, he became the problem.
B) He shouldn't have had $60 in his wallet. Obviously a greedy capitalist!
C) He should not have been collecting cans as to have the capability to have $60 dollars in his wallet when there are others that are unemployed and don't have $60. He should have been happy living on his government assistance.
D) It was all the old guys fault.
E) He should not have had 12 children.

OH that's right, it's Chicago. Just some boys having some fun on a hot day.

 

[Bikenut]

Murder 1 is a little stiff...I'd have gone for murder 2 or manslaughter if I were the prosecutor. Hell, Zimmerman is looking at murder 2 because prosecutors believe he started the altercation that led to him discharging his firearm. I'm not defending these jackwads...they deserve to be severely punished, but they also had no intent or reason to believe their actions would cause the death of their victim. A single punch is rarely fatal.

Rarely fatal? A quick 'net search brought up just this one example:

From:

The Belfast Telegraph

'20 die' after single-punch attacks


Twenty people have died in one-punch attacks - often fuelled by alcohol - in Northern Ireland since 2004, police have said.

-snip-

Read more: Link Removed

And that simple search pulled up many references to "one punch"....

Many people think that because an attacker doesn't have something in his hands they are "unarmed" ... but there really is no such thing as an "unarmed" man because the fist.......... or foot.... can be are potentially very effective deadly weapons.

 

[JohnD13]

The attacker clearly stated his intent to attack the victim. He then robbed him. A man is now dead, and there should be a really long sentence handed down here. "Look how cool I am, I got this on the internet!" How stupid are kids these day? Is there a limit?

 

[Chief1297]

I think the death penalty is the least they should get. But hey, they didnt intend to punch and rob him, did they...really. It is not like they accidentally bumped him and knocked him over where he hit his head. They violently attacked him and ended his life.

 

[dgsalmon]

Not the first time I've read about groups of kids attacking folks at random in gun-unfriendly cities like Chicago. Probably won't be the last either, unfortunately…

Doesn't happen so much here on Dallas though - wonder why that could be?

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I would happily volunteer to be the executioner.

Do not pass go, do not collect a "free ride" from the justice they so richly deserve..... Don't drop the soap guys!

 

[jabatam]

Rarely fatal? A quick 'net search brought up just this one example:

From:

The Belfast Telegraph

'20 die' after single-punch attacks


Twenty people have died in one-punch attacks - often fuelled by alcohol - in Northern Ireland since 2004, police have said.

-snip-

Read more: Link Removed

And that simple search pulled up many references to "one punch"....

Many people think that because an attacker doesn't have something in his hands they are "unarmed" ... but there really is no such thing as an "unarmed" man because the fist.......... or foot.... can be are potentially very effective deadly weapons.

20 incidents? Seriously? Compared to how many single punches that have been thrown? If its 20 deaths out of 200,000 single punches thrown, that's pretty good odds. Hell, me personally, I've seen probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 sucker punches thrown in bars around the world. Now, if your "stats" compared to my experience (and I'm just one guy...imagine how many get thrown that I didn't/don't see), that'd be a fatality rate of 4%.

Look I'm not defending these guys. Yes they are thugs/hoodrats/etc and deserve to be brought to justice. All I'm saying is that, for a murder 1 conviction, the prosecution has to show premeditated intent to kill...even if the premeditation occurred just moments prior to the incident. A reasonable person would most likely not think a punch is going to kill them and that's the battle the prosecutor will have to fight. Any fresh out of law school public defender will be able to beat that charge. Murder 2 or manslaughter, however, does not require near as much burden of proof on the prosecution.

Jeez people...think with your heads from time to time and listen to what someone is actually saying rather than just what you think they are

 

[sig p6]

We had this same game going on in Madison Wisconsin last year. Have not heard to much about it since CCW passed.

 

[tcfiero]

I am not a lawyer, but wouldn't it be murder one if it occurred during or as a result of another crime being committed ?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[jabatam]

I stand corrected. According to Illinois penal code found at Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes, the fact that they robbed him after the assault is what elevated it to 1st degree murder. I've never heard of it being like that. In every state I've lived in, the definition of 1st degree murder has been what I laid out in the previous comments. I guess it is a kudos for Illinois...they sure don't get many on this forum. Hope the prosecutors can pull it off, but they'll probably plea it down to a lesser charge.

 

[AppliedPerspective]

Isn't it just standard operating procedure to charge them with the absolute maximum they prosecutors think they can get away with, so that they still have a hefty charge against them when they inevitably bargain for lesser charges? I'm no legal expert by any means, but isn't pretty much the first thing the defense does is try to get the charges reduced? By that logic, charging with murder 1, in the hopes that they actually get the murder 2 charge makes sense.

 

[Bikenut]

20 incidents? Seriously? Compared to how many single punches that have been thrown? If its 20 deaths out of 200,000 single punches thrown, that's pretty good odds. Hell, me personally, I've seen probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 sucker punches thrown in bars around the world. Now, if your "stats" compared to my experience (and I'm just one guy...imagine how many get thrown that I didn't/don't see), that'd be a fatality rate of 4%.

Look I'm not defending these guys. Yes they are thugs/hoodrats/etc and deserve to be brought to justice. All I'm saying is that, for a murder 1 conviction, the prosecution has to show premeditated intent to kill...even if the premeditation occurred just moments prior to the incident. A reasonable person would most likely not think a punch is going to kill them and that's the battle the prosecutor will have to fight. Any fresh out of law school public defender will be able to beat that charge. Murder 2 or manslaughter, however, does not require near as much burden of proof on the prosecution.

Jeez people...think with your heads from time to time and listen to what someone is actually saying rather than just what you think they are

My point was that one punch being fatal isn't as "rare" as folks might think. And I provided an actual cite to actual facts for just one country over just a few years.

 

[jabatam]

My point was that one punch being fatal isn't as "rare" as folks might think. And I provided an actual cite to actual facts for just one country over just a few years.

Incredibly weak stats to back up your claim of it not being as rare as people think it is when you find 20 cases spanning an 8 year period in a country that's known for its drunken brawls. You need to show that as a percentage by citing the number of single punch assaults recorded over that time period. Even then, your numbers will be skewed a little due to the number of single punch assaults that weren't reported. If you don't put up all the numbers, it's easy to make an argument in your favor. For example, I can say, accurately I might add, that roughly 250,000 to 500,000 people die a year from the regular seasonal flu virus. That sounds pretty bad. But when I tell you that the total number of people infected with the seasonal flu virus every year is 340,000,000 and that the mortality rate, based on those numbers, is 0.025% to 0.147%, that kind of puts it in perspective. You can't only present one side of an argument without expecting a rebuttal from a different angle. That was my point about your stats

 

[trophyhunter]

Good,or Bad They get what they deserve. I dont want to hear they were good kids. If they were that good, They would'nt be out @ 5am looking for Trouble.

The Victim had 12 Children that now lost their Father to an Stupid Random GAME. And now the Defendent's family wants us to feel Sympathy because he was a good kid who wanted to get into Law Enforcement.

Give me a break He should of thought about that prior to Assaulting,and Killing this Man. They must pay the price for acting in such a manner.

My Sympathy goes out to the Children who lost their DAD. Gods speed be with him, and his Family.

 

[Bikenut]

Incredibly weak stats to back up your claim of it not being as rare as people think it is when you find 20 cases spanning an 8 year period in a country that's known for its drunken brawls. You need to show that as a percentage by citing the number of single punch assaults recorded over that time period. Even then, your numbers will be skewed a little due to the number of single punch assaults that weren't reported. If you don't put up all the numbers, it's easy to make an argument in your favor. For example, I can say, accurately I might add, that roughly 250,000 to 500,000 people die a year from the regular seasonal flu virus. That sounds pretty bad. But when I tell you that the total number of people infected with the seasonal flu virus every year is 340,000,000 and that the mortality rate, based on those numbers, is 0.025% to 0.147%, that kind of puts it in perspective. You can't only present one side of an argument without expecting a rebuttal from a different angle. That was my point about your stats

I'm quite willing to have a look at any cites and/or links you provide that reference one punch fatalities....

And a 'net search for one punch fatalities results in a plethora of links to incidents. So my point was quite simple... that one punch fatalities aren't as "rare" as folks might think.

 

[jabatam]

I'm quite willing to have a look at any cites and/or links you provide that reference one punch fatalities....

And a 'net search for one punch fatalities results in a plethora of links to incidents. So my point was quite simple... that one punch fatalities aren't as "rare" as folks might think.

You're the one that decided to start this argument, for no good reason so I'm not going to look anything up. My point has been made 3 times now, each time more clearly than the last. If you want to look up those statistics, be my guest. However, I'm done debating with you over the validity of your statistics because there is no point trying to debate something with an opponent who is either unwilling or unable to admit they were possibly wrong. I've already admitted my ignorance regarding Illinois law but I stand by what I've said to you regarding your cursory google search and, until you come up with numbers from a credible source to back up your claims, I have nothing further to say to you about this.