Personal Protection Ammo- Help


joesmo

New member
I'd like to hear your thoughts. I'm new to this so be gentle. I do appreciate your opinion.

I friend told me to buy a small box of very expensive stuff. He cited reasons like the metal used, sealing, primers, etc.....said the reason was because it will sit in your mag for a LONG time, and you want it to fire, don't want a mis fire or a jam....

OK, this conversation was AFTER I bought a 100rd box of Remington .45 JHPs. Paid $38 for the 100.

I have been firing inexpensive Winchester FMJ ammo (white box, red letters), 100rd value paks. I've probably put a 600 rounds thru both glocks these past few weeks, no jams or misfires.

Here is my thought process. By buying this less expensive Remington JHP ammo, I can cycle it thru my range time, and get a comfort level that it will fire, and because I'm buying 100rds for the cost of 20, I will indeed cycle it. If it fired at the range every time, why wouldn't it fire the same when needed?

What do you use for personal protection?
 

capo2186

New member
I'd like to hear your thoughts. I'm new to this so be gentle. I do appreciate your opinion.

I friend told me to buy a small box of very expensive stuff. He cited reasons like the metal used, sealing, primers, etc.....said the reason was because it will sit in your mag for a LONG time, and you want it to fire, don't want a mis fire or a jam....

OK, this conversation was AFTER I bought a 100rd box of Remington .45 JHPs. Paid $38 for the 100.

I have been firing inexpensive Winchester FMJ ammo (white box, red letters), 100rd value paks. I've probably put a 600 rounds thru both glocks these past few weeks, no jams or misfires.

Here is my thought process. By buying this less expensive Remington JHP ammo, I can cycle it thru my range time, and get a comfort level that it will fire, and because I'm buying 100rds for the cost of 20, I will indeed cycle it. If it fired at the range every time, why wouldn't it fire the same when needed?

What do you use for personal protection?

Very good question. My guess would be that yes it would fire. I have had ammo sitting around for a while and then use it at the range with out an issue. This is a good question and I am looking forward to what the guys/girls from this site will have to say.
 

Red Hat

New member
It's fine to practice with less expensive ammo but you still need to fire the ammo you carry. I have a couple firearms that work fine with FMJ ammo but when I tried to fire my carry ammo it would not chamber properly. After a little polishing on the ramp it worked fine. If I hadn't tried it then I could be out of luck if I need it. My rule of thumb is to fire my ammo I carry every 6 months and then replace it. Heat, cold and body moisture can play havoc on ammo. I'd rather buy ammo a couple times a year than not have it go bang if I need it.
 

Jes

New member
Winchester

You should buy what makes you happy as long as it always goes bang. I have had some duds in the Winchester White Box, never used remington. Winchester makes an affordable hollowpoint in the SXZ. About $25 for 50. About half what you pay for Remington Golden Sabres or Federal Hydra-shok.
 
It's fine to practice with less expensive ammo but you still need to fire the ammo you carry. I have a couple firearms that work fine with FMJ ammo but when I tried to fire my carry ammo it would not chamber properly. After a little polishing on the ramp it worked fine. If I hadn't tried it then I could be out of luck if I need it. My rule of thumb is to fire my ammo I carry every 6 months and then replace it. Heat, cold and body moisture can play havoc on ammo. I'd rather buy ammo a couple times a year than not have it go bang if I need it.

Excellent advice Red Hat.

When chosing your ammo, be sure that it's something that will do the job it's intended for. I like my Speer Gold Dot ammunition because I know for a fact that a local LE agency uses it. Imagine a deputy prosecutor in court trying to argue my ammo was "overkill". Not going to happen. :wink: When practicing, you can use the lower priced ammo, but be sure that it's close to the ammo that you're carrying. For example, my carry ammo is .40 s&w with a 165gr bullet. I'm not going to buy .40 s&w with a 180gr bullet for practice, as the heavier bullet will perform differently. I fire my defensive ammo at least once a month.




gf
 

maybejim

Maybejim
I use Glaser Silver for the first 3 rounds in my carry gun and follow it with one or another of the premium Hollow Points. I use the Glaser's following Jocelyn Elders call for a "safer" bullet.:haha: I was impressed with the energy dump of the Glaser (and the goat tests some years ago). I like that they are safer in the case of a miss and that they won't overpenetrate. I carry the premium hollow points for better penetration if needed.

I have heard recommendations of firing your carry ammo every 3 months but I am lucky if I fire it once a year. I've never had a misfire even going over a year.

I use the premium stuff because of the tests of it working better through clothes and other barriers and still opening up. So I am a sucker for the tests and the hype. I can only hope they are reasonably valid.
 
I don't like the Glaser ammunition. They're over priced and over rated. I have a group of friends that I train with. We put the Glaser ammo up against our usual defensive ammo. There were several cases where the Glaser ammo performed very poorly when shot into a wet phone book. Where the conventional JHP ammo punched through the phone book, the Glaser ammo terminated about a half way into the phone book. The $5 per round is rather pricey as well. I'd say go with a good quality hollow point. Be sure to train frequently with your personal defense ammo. You don't want any surprises when you need to defend yourself.



gf
 

MP3Mogul

New member
Let me tell you, that Remington JHP box of 100 you bought are "fantastic" rounds. I routinely use them in my carry .45's as well.

I make it a point to carry the ammo only for 90 days, then I shoot it off.... then freshen my ammo. With that said, there is "absolutely" no reason for you to do so. I have fired ammo from WW2 that was still good. This is only a personal preference, plus I get to fire my carry ammo and get practice with it.
 

gdcleanfun

Banned
From what I understand, and please correct this if it's wrong, a hollow point bullet for home defense is better than anything else in a pistol for the simple fact that when it breaks up or falls apart inside the perp then that bullet is less than likely to "shoot through" and hit a family member. It's kind of the opposite theory of using a shotgun for home defense self protection whereby the scatter hits anything and everything in the general direction it's aimed.

As far as buying any type of ammo for any type of firearm, it's dependent on both the ammo and the firearm. Certain manufacturers and certain jacket types jamb my .45, other jam in the 3ought6. Buy some, try some, get what works for what you have.
 

maybejim

Maybejim
There were several cases where the Glaser ammo performed very poorly when shot into a wet phone book.

I've seen good scientific tests on the Glaser and questionable scientific tests on it. Overall they seem to come out pretty good. It's really just a matter of what you believe after reading as many of the studies as you can. I am comfortable with the Glasers. But I did some research when discussing this on another forum and Mag-Safe's look good even better than Glasers for penetration. I'm happy with the 9" to 12" penetration that I've seen in tests for Glasers.

The $5 per round is rather pricey as well.

I have bought them for $6 to $10 for 6 at gun shows. I found 9mm and .380 for 11.97 for 6 a couple of days ago and $14.97 for .45's. I'm going to a gun show this weekend in Ventura, so I wanted to see what the going prices were.
 

Red Hat

New member
You are correct gdcleanfun. JHP ammo will mushroom so the energy will dissipate when it hits flesh, bone or a wall. Ball/FMJ ammo will penetrate and sometimes continue through the target. So in general it's safer to use JHP's!
 
I've seen good scientific tests on the Glaser and questionable scientific tests on it. Overall they seem to come out pretty good. It's really just a matter of what you believe after reading as many of the studies as you can. I am comfortable with the Glasers. But I did some research when discussing this on another forum and Mag-Safe's look good even better than Glasers for penetration. I'm happy with the 9" to 12" penetration that I've seen in tests for Glasers.



I have bought them for $6 to $10 for 6 at gun shows. I found 9mm and .380 for 11.97 for 6 a couple of days ago and $14.97 for .45's. I'm going to a gun show this weekend in Ventura, so I wanted to see what the going prices were.


The "scientific" tests mean very little to me. What I do believe is what I see with my own two eyes. I can care less how the ammo performed in a lab. What I do care about is the practical application. If my rounds can cause that kind of damage to a phone book, water jug, orange, apple, etc., then I'm sure they'll do the same when hitting a BG. I strongly recommend that you get some "hands on" experience with your Glaser ammunition. Shoot at a bunch of different stuff to see how it performs. We've gone so far as to shoot at drywall (stuff that makes up the walls and celing of some of our houses), T&G lumber (stuff that makes up the walls of other folks houses), CMU blocks and even tried shooting at ceramic tile flooring. The experience was very educational.

As for buying personal protection ammo at a gun show, let the buyer beware. I've seen cases where folks have sold "factory seconds" at gun shows. These "seconds" might look and feel like the premium stuff, but have some type of internal flaw that makes them safe for practice, but not for "duty" or "personal protection". Be very careful where you purchase your defensive ammo. If the dealer selling you the stuff is shady, they may sell you something that is less than desireable for defensive purposes. Most reputable dealers will CLEARLY mark the ammo as being "for practice only" or "factory seconds", etc. The Glaser ammo we shot was special ordered through our local gun shop.


gf
 

maybejim

Maybejim
,
a hollow point bullet for home defense is better than anything else in a pistol for the simple fact that when it breaks up or falls apart inside the perp then that bullet is less than likely to "shoot through" and hit a family member

It depends a lot on the particular hollow point. I use Glasers for that very reason. Both will penetrate two layers of wall board but I believe the Glasers will be breaking apart at that point.

It's kind of the opposite theory of using a shotgun for home defense self protection whereby the scatter hits anything and everything in the general direction it's aimed.

Actually a shotgun with smaller than buckshot (I've seen #4 shot recomended) is an excellent home defense weapon. But don't count on the "scatter" being more than about 6 or 7 inches (likely less) in the 15 ft or less that you would be firing in a home defense scenario.
What shotgun loads are best (and worst) suited to home defence? - Yahoo!7 Answers
 

Red Hat

New member
If you are worried about over penetrating then try Frangible ammo. It's designed to penetrate flesh and turn to powder if it hits a hard surface. Here is some info on them. Frangible Bullets
 
If you are worried about over penetrating then try Frangible ammo. It's designed to penetrate flesh and turn to powder if it hits a hard surface. Here is some info on them. Frangible Bullets


On a side note, check your local laws. Here in PRHI, "frangible" and "Glaser" ammuntion are two examples of something that would be illegal for your average citizen to purchase. PRHI has a messed up law that prohibits "fragmenting" type ammunition.



gf
 

maybejim

Maybejim
I have to show my ignorance. Where is PRHI?

I thought Kalifornia had the worst gun and ammo laws but they don't outlaw frangible bullets. They do outlaw shooting shotgun shells in a handgun (410 in a .45 Colt as you can in a few guns) but not frangibles.

New York I believe used to outlaw hollow points but I think that may have changed.

Shows the stupidity of politicians about guns and ammo.
 
I have to show my ignorance. Where is PRHI?

I thought Kalifornia had the worst gun and ammo laws but they don't outlaw frangible bullets. They do outlaw shooting shotgun shells in a handgun (410 in a .45 Colt as you can in a few guns) but not frangibles.

New York I believe used to outlaw hollow points but I think that may have changed.

Shows the stupidity of politicians about guns and ammo.


PRHI = People's Republic of Hawaii. PRCA = People's Republic of California

We're allowed to have firearms like the Taurus Judge (.410 ga/.45LC). The "fragmenting ammo" is very grey. If I had a box of fragible ammo and it was taken from the original box and put into relaod containers, who would know the difference? Most LE don't realize that there's a law that restricts fragmenting ammo to military and LE use.

Had a LE buddy order the Glaser ammo we tested. He didn't realize what the big deal was about the ammo. Once we had the results in front of us, he kind of chuckled and made a comment on how stupid the law was. The HP ammo was A LOT more damaging.



gf
 
I used to call it "Kommiefornia" or "Kahleefohneeah", but for simplicity purposes and to be uniform with my posts, began using the PRCA term. This goes along great with:

PRHI
PRMA
PRIL
PRNY



gf
 

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