Personal Defense Ammo Debunked

G

Gordon Shumway

New member
Here's some really interesting reading about self defense ammo.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
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tests, photos, logic, FACTS, no theories or wishful thinking here.


Link Removed
Magic bullets debunked.
 
Thanks for the interesting read. Looks like the Federals I carry in my EDC didn't show so well in these tests. Probably won't change though since they are departmental issue for so many DoD and other federal agencies.
 
The one absolute factor in choosing ammo is to have it in a reliable gun in your hand when needed. A .22 in your hand is better than a .45 in your safe and all the rest is Internet fodder. That is not to discount what kind of ammo you should use but the second most important factor in self defense with a gun is bullet placement. A well placed shot with a .32 is much better than a miss with a 10mm. The old story about a .45 will kill someone just by hitting them in the pinky is just a story. So after you choose a gun that you can and will carry, learn how and when to use it, then you can worry about which ammo to use. Bad guys seldom worry about ammo type and they do an effective job with WWB. But it is still fun and interesting to discuss the different types of ammo available and the what-ifs.
 
Felix said:
Thanks for the interesting read. Looks like the Federals I carry in my EDC didn't show so well in these tests. Probably won't change though since they are departmental issue for so many DoD and other federal agencies.
Click to expand...

Many agencies changed to Federal HST and Win Ranger T long ago. Most of them also have gone to 45 acp; as well as many local and state agencies.

Of course, a hp that doesn't expand still makes a deep hole, no worse than fmj.

Emphasis is again on AIMED double-tap,
instead of spray and pray.

If you've never tried it, shooting is very difficult when bullets are flying AT you.
So I never find fault with someone's shooting accuracy under duress.

"An eyeball hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 44 magnum."
 
Gordon Shumway said:
Many agencies changed to Federal HST and Win Ranger T long ago.
Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is...the FC-40HST (Federal #P40HST1 .40 S&W 180 gr) is what I carry...and what "many DoD and other federal agencies" use as I said previously. Glad to see you concur, Gordon. :wink:

Now that I look at those charts again, I see the brands weren't rank ordered as I originally assumed; thus, my note that my favored Federals didn't do so well. Yea, I know what 'assume' stands for and that's what I get for going directly to the .40 S&W section without reading the capitalized caveat. :sad:

Agree that the .45 Auto posts some very impressive numbers for law enforcement departments although I'm not aware of any mass exodus to the round other than the stalled USSOCOM program which is unlikely to be funded in these budget-cutting times. Some detractors I see from widespread movement to the .45 ACP by DoD as well as more specialized agencies would include joint service standardization, weapon size, weight, smaller magazine capacity in many competitive pistols, large grip size makes shooting (well) more difficult for small-handed shooters, reduced effectiveness against the modern body armor many combatants as well as BGs now wear (despite good ballistics gel and heavy cloth penetration numbers).

The folks at Tampa had a very parochial view of the requirements for a new pistol when it was the Spec Ops Combat Pistol program. But then when they became the executive agent for the service-wide program, they did a less than stellar job of studying what kind of a pistol the non-snake-eaters would need and could use effectively. Subsequently the entire program was thrown into disarray when Congress ordered another study and funds weren't made available to continue prototyping/development. And now it looks like the M9 will continue to be the nation's sidearm.

Lastly, of course the cute colloquialism you cite is always correct.
smiley20.gif
 
"An eyeball hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 44 magnum."
Click to expand...

This is true but it seems that everyone keeps thinking that the only effective shot with a .22 is in the eyesocket. Many years ago a friend of mine was killed when the pistol his father was "playing with" fired. My friend was 14 at the time, was hit in the chest and the gun was a .22 revolver. A .22, .25, .32 etc. are all very dangerous if handled improperly. I had another friend that almost lost his leg due to a pellet gun and one who lost an eye to a BB gun. Safety is always first and foremost when guns are involved.
 
My worst nightmare is some moron cranked up on PCP. I've heard of them taking many rounds and keep coming. I use Hornady when I can, even when I have to carry my LCP I use Power Ball. Never know what the situation will be, so use the best you can. FMJ is cool to plink with, but when your life depends on it, spend the extra buck & get the best.
 
I think the point is .......

It must go bang.... EVERY TIME

You must hit what you aim at....

Magic bullets are marketing hype.

If there were amazing feedback from they who actually shoot people with the magic bullets.... the world would be flocking to buy the fancy schtuff.

Buy from the top 3-4 major manufacturers

and

1) the rounds WILL go bang every time.
2) Shoot until the threat is neutralized.
3) Then later you can worry if they mushroomed and caused enough fatal damage.
 
FN1910 said:
This is true but it seems that everyone keeps thinking that the only effective shot with a .22 is in the eyesocket. Many years ago a friend of mine was killed when the pistol his father was "playing with" fired. My friend was 14 at the time, was hit in the chest and the gun was a .22 revolver. A .22, .25, .32 etc. are all very dangerous if handled improperly. I had another friend that almost lost his leg due to a pellet gun and one who lost an eye to a BB gun. Safety is always first and foremost when guns are involved.
Click to expand...


Sure there are single shots that were fatal.
President Reagan was shot with a 22, how many times? Where?

Just remember please, that some people say that more people are killed by 22s than by any other round.
(OK, if you count assassins with supressed 22s.)

Maybe, but in the 30 minutes it takes them to bleed to death, they are really gonna be really pissed off and can do you a whole bunch of serious bodily harm.

If you are going to stop someone by using your 22, you better have a really good aim for vital areas. A glancing shot off the skull doesn't slow them down.

Also, being shot at and missed is no fun,
but neither is being shot at and HIT. ouch.
 
FN1910 said:
This is true but it seems that everyone keeps thinking that the only effective shot with a .22 is in the eyesocket. Many years ago a friend of mine was killed when the pistol his father was "playing with" fired. My friend was 14 at the time, was hit in the chest and the gun was a .22 revolver. A .22, .25, .32 etc. are all very dangerous if handled improperly. I had another friend that almost lost his leg due to a pellet gun and one who lost an eye to a BB gun. Safety is always first and foremost when guns are involved.
Click to expand...

Yep.
My ex sister in law died from a 22LR shot to the chest. She bleed internally and died before the squad got there.
I wouldnt choose to carry a 22, but I certainly dont want to be shot by one.
 
FN1910 said:
This is true but it seems that everyone keeps thinking that the only effective shot with a .22 is in the eyesocket. Many years ago a friend of mine was killed when the pistol his father was "playing with" fired. My friend was 14 at the time, was hit in the chest and the gun was a .22 revolver. A .22, .25, .32 etc. are all very dangerous if handled improperly. I had another friend that almost lost his leg due to a pellet gun and one who lost an eye to a BB gun. Safety is always first and foremost when guns are involved.
Click to expand...
Dang! You SC boys play rough! Where I grew up we just played with baseballs, footballs, kick balls and girls! The last being the most dangerous!:yu:
 
CapGun said:
Dang! You SC boys play rough! Where I grew up we just played with baseballs, footballs, kick balls and girls! The last being the most dangerous!:yu:
Click to expand...

Heck, that was just the examples of small caliber stuff. If you move up to larger caliber or shotguns I have a lot more stories, some deadly and some almost funny. One fellow I know had a .25 auto go off in his back pocket while driving a tractor. Not gun related but one friend and his cousin were out cutting wood and my friend laid his trigger finger on a stump and dared his cousin to cut it off. Part of the reason he was rejected from the Army is that he didn't have a trigger finger any more. Yup, he was crazy too. :)
 
Gordon Shumway said:
I think the point is .......

It must go bang.... EVERY TIME

You must hit what you aim at....

Magic bullets are marketing hype.

If there were amazing feedback from they who actually shoot people with the magic bullets.... the world would be flocking to buy the fancy schtuff.

Buy from the top 3-4 major manufacturers

and

1) the rounds WILL go bang every time.
2) Shoot until the threat is neutralized.
3) Then later you can worry if they mushroomed and caused enough fatal damage.
Click to expand...



Well stated sir.
 
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