Permit Holder Chases and Shoots Armed Robber

[durhamm1988]

This is on the homepage of KARE11.com this morning.

___________________________________________________

Robbery suspect fatally shot in Minneapolis

MINNEAPOLIS - Minneapolis police say a man who witnessed an elderly woman being robbed and pistol-whipped shot and killed her attacker.

Authorities say the armed robber confronted the woman in the parking lot of a grocery store about 10 p.m. Thursday, took her purse and hit her in the head with his gun. A man who witnessed the robbery chased the suspect and shot him. When police arrived, the witness told officers he had a permit to carry a gun and that he had shot the armed robbery suspect during a confrontation outside a nearby restaurant. He told officers where they could find his handgun. He was detained for questioning.

Police say the robber who was fatally shot was in his 20s. Investigators say they found his gun near where the shooting took place.

(Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

 

[B2Tall]

Glad the shooter is OK but he's crazy. The perp is running away - I call 911 and tend to the woman as best I can while waiting for police. Give the police a description and go home. As far as I'm concerned, my "job" is done as soon as the BG takes off. He may very well have opened (and dumped) a massive, legal can of worms on himself aside from the fact that he put himself in great danger. In most states a perp is no longer considered an immediate threat if he's retreating and not pointing the gun at you. In that case the rules change drastically.

 

[DemocratGunOwner]

Yeah, dumb. I chased a perp once in the adrenaline rush. Won't be doing that again. (No, nothing bad happened, but realized how stupid it was to do.)

 

[JohnLM]

Glad the shooter is OK but he's crazy. The perp is running away - I call 911 and tend to the woman as best I can while waiting for police. Give the police a description and go home. As far as I'm concerned, my "job" is done as soon as the BG takes off. He may very well have opened (and dumped) a massive, legal can of worms on himself aside from the fact that he put himself in great danger. In most states a perp is no longer considered an immediate threat if he's retreating and not pointing the gun at you. In that case the rules change drastically.

Yeah, it do seem like a bad move on his part. To chase someone down then shoot them can in no way be called self defense. But then I'm no Lawyer.

 

[B2Tall]

I believe there was a case in California (Noted: an anti-gun state) where the victim of an armed robbery decided to go looking for the perp. He found him sitting in his car a couple of blocks away. In the ensuing confrontation the robber was shot. The shooter was convicted of some degree of murder/manslaughter because the state decided that he had become the agressor by chasing down someone who'd ceased to be a threat to him.

I don't necessarily agree with the state's decision in this case but the "chaser" in both cases is just dumb, crazy, or a little of both for doing so.

 

[glendenbreed]

Maybe he was chasing him down to make a citizens arrest and he turns the gun at him...
I'd buy it.

Say he dosnt chase the perp down and the perp tries to make a second robbery on your wife and he decides she doesn't get to live... I couldn't live with myself knowing I had the chance to stop a man that's ends up killing someone..

So even if I do chase him down I try to restrain him without drawing my weapon.
Just because I carry a gun doesn't mean I can't solve a violent act without it. It just means that if I should ever need it, it's there.

 

[glendenbreed]

Of course I've called the police at that point

 

[Phillip Gain]

Good discussion. For reference, here are the applicable Minnesota statutes:
Reference: Link Removed

609.06 AUTHORIZED USE OF FORCE.

Subdivision 1.When authorized.

Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 2, reasonable force may be used upon or toward the person of another without the other's consent when the following circumstances exist or the actor reasonably believes them to exist:
.
.
.
(3) when used by any person in resisting or aiding another to resist an offense against the person



609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.

The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

-----

So in MY mind (as a layman / non-attorney), it seems that if the samaritan is taken to court, he could argue that:

1) The initial use of force was justified, and the standard of "aiding another to resist an offense agains the person" was met.

2) Letting the BG escape, still armed, after witnessing the way he robbed and beat the victim, would meet the standard of "exposing the actor or another to great bodily harm or death."

If the DA presses charges, let's hope that his attorney can successfully make these arguments at trial.

 

[rotjovi]

I'm from MN and will be following this one closely. I think he's in quite a bit of trouble. He did us all a favor by removing a dirtbag off the streets, but he may be going to jail. If it's not reported nationally, I'll update on here. There has to be more to the story.

 

[rotjovi]

This story can be followed on defensivecarry.com !!

 

[Nightmare45]

BG is running away call 911 assist the lady and move on you are not the police, oh yea where were they again, am being told all the time by the anti gun states they are there to protect you, 8 in CA and how many others where police are not present, protect yourself and your family.

 

[SmokinLawyer]

If the facts, which got fuzzy in the story at the point of take-down, turn out to be that the GG hollered for the BG to halt and the BG turned and fired, or reasonably appeared to be trying to fire at the GG, then he may well be OK with a self-defense defense. Absent something of that nature, the GG may find himself falling back on the time-honored Southern defense that the BG "just needed killin'" and hoping the jury engages in jury nullification - declining to convict under the circumstances by voting not guilty. Either is a precarious defense position. Better to have assisted the victim and protect her until the Professionals arrive.

 

[B2Tall]

Say he dosnt chase the perp down and the perp tries to make a second robbery on your wife and he decides she doesn't get to live... I couldn't live with myself knowing I had the chance to stop a man that's ends up killing someone..

I couldn't live with myself being dead.

I'm just not willing to put myself in extreme danger in order to apprehend someone who's ceased to be a direct threat. That's the job of the police and in this case I'll aid them any way I can short of putting myself in the line of fire.

 

[B2Tall]

If the facts, which got fuzzy in the story at the point of take-down, turn out to be that the GG hollered for the BG to halt and the BG turned and fired, or reasonably appeared to be trying to fire at the GG, then he may well be OK with a self-defense defense. Absent something of that nature, the GG may find himself falling back on the time-honored Southern defense that the BG "just needed killin'" and hoping the jury engages in jury nullification - declining to convict under the circumstances by voting not guilty. Either is a precarious defense position. Better to have assisted the victim and protect her until the Professionals arrive.

I have no sympathy for the deceased. I have no problem with what the shooter did from a legal standpoint (good for him). I just think the guy was foolish for putting himself in a position where he could very well have been the dead guy, or at the whim of a prosecutor.

 

[tuts40]

Glad the shooter is OK but he's crazy. The perp is running away - I call 911 and tend to the woman as best I can while waiting for police. Give the police a description and go home. As far as I'm concerned, my "job" is done as soon as the BG takes off. He may very well have opened (and dumped) a massive, legal can of worms on himself aside from the fact that he put himself in great danger. In most states a perp is no longer considered an immediate threat if he's retreating and not pointing the gun at you. In that case the rules change drastically.

Agreed. Agreed, again, to satisfy the 15 charactor minimum...

 

[rotjovi]

Minneapolis Star Tribune has the story. The shooter was questioned and released. I don't agree with him chasing the guy, but I hope he gets off. Grand Jury will decide if charges are necessary or not.

 

[JrFreak]

This guy is probably going to get charged... unfortunately.

 

[glendenbreed]

Say he dosnt chase the perp down and the perp tries to make a second robbery on your wife and he decides she doesn't get to live... I couldn't live with myself knowing I had the chance to stop a man that's ends up killing someone..

I couldn't live with myself being dead.

I'm just not willing to put myself in extreme danger in order to apprehend someone who's ceased to be a direct threat. That's the job of the police and in this case I'll aid them any way I can short of putting myself in the line of fire.

There are worse things than dying. Like knowing you could have saved lives but were to selfish to take a stand.

Yes it is what the police get paid to do but imagine a world where every good Guy only looks out for himself. Only way to have a safe community is for all good guys to look out for eachother under 1 common goal and that is to help anyone in need.
That being said I dont know how I would react to this situation but I would hope I would act the same way this Guy did hopefully without having to use my weapon.
I can tell you how I have reacted in similar situations and it was to help in anyway I could.

 

[walt629]

Chasing a perp after witnessing a crime? Nope. Not me. These knees tell me it's not a good idea. My efforts would be better spent giving aid to the elderly victim. A 911 call and a good description of the perp and a general direction he was fleeing provided to the responding LEO is a good enough response from me.

I'm too old to run and too young to die. That's why I carry.

 

[Cotillion]

The fear of being charged with a crime would have kept me from giving Chase. Would I love to unload a mag full of slugs into his face? Yup. But that same fear that kept me from beating the crap out of everyone that crossed my path as a youth is the same fear that allows me to feel comfortable carrying. Should that guy be charged? Absolutely not, I'd give him a medal but if they did that then that's sending a message saying we can all act like Bruce Willis