+ P or Standard loads for self defense?


boris

New member
what do you guys think? better than rocks? yes. my police academy instructor said he prefered wadcutters loaded to + P pressures, especially during the winter because hollow points could get tangled up in heavy coats. thoughts/experiences?
 

DrLewall

Charter Member
Good question! Heavy coats in winter could cause some concern and with that, I can see the use of a 357mag..hmmmm
 

ishi

New member
Good question! Heavy coats in winter could cause some concern and with that, I can see the use of a 357mag..hmmmm

I've got Federal's 9mm+P HST "Law Enforcement" JHP in my home defense pistol. (well, I will have them, when I finally get some replacement grip screws - stripped out my others)

Recoil's not bad, and I understand the ballistics are pretty darn good.
 

flcracker

New member
I use +P in my shorter barrel 45's. Standard velocity in my longer 45 barrels

+1 on what Greg said....

I carry +P's in my 3.5" barreled .45 for the fact that they add a little more pop to the velocity that a shorter barrel will lose with a std load. My personal choice is the Rem GS 185gr loads...they seem to feed a little better in my .45 than the Speer GD's that I also use in my compact 9mm.

I don't shoot a lot of 'em though, not only because of cost factors, but for the fact that they are pretty hot, and will likely damage my frame and parts over time. I use std Win white box 230's for practice.

flc
 

DrDavidM

New member
I like the idea of +p's in my 9mm and my wife's 38. I use standard loads in my 40's and 45's. I don't want to practice with the +p's because of the excess wear and tear on the handgun. I would rather be able to practice with the same, or similar load, in my defense handgun. So, I chose regular loads as much as possible.
 

Apollo

New member
I use 9mm +P in my Kahr PM9. But when I practice I fire two shots with the +P. Then I fire 100 rounds using Western's target loads. I found my pm9 to be very acccurate for the first 6 shots then the barrel gets hot and the accuracy deminishes. (sp)
 

Ektarr

Dedicated Infidel
my police academy instructor said he prefered wadcutters loaded to + P pressures
Careful here... Solid lead bullets loaded to +P pressures can cause serious leading problems and adversely affect accuracy. Lead isn't strong enough to withstand those excessive velocities without leaving residue in the barrel grooves. I keep SJSWC +P's in my Model 60, but they're Semi-Jacketed, which addresses this very concern.

Just lookin' out for you...
 

5.56_Spartan

New member
what do you guys think? better than rocks? yes. my police academy instructor said he prefered wadcutters loaded to + P pressures, especially during the winter because hollow points could get tangled up in heavy coats. thoughts/experiences?

Interestingly enough, if you check enough penetration tests, the difference between the two (+P, non-plus P) is minimal. What you do get is a higher energy transfer (assuming the bullet stays in the target), and greater recoil at the weapon.

FWIW - A plugged (non-expanding) hollow point is probably real close to a semi-wadcutter, due to the fact that there is typically some compression of the bullet. In the end, this argument could be considered a wash....

Glad to find this forum.... look forward to checking in often :D
 

ishi

New member
The thing I look for with +P is the increased hydrostatic shock caused by the energy transfer. I don't think there's ever been any major study of the effects of this shock to the nervous system, but my guess is it has to be major. Added psychological effect is very desireable IMHO, because it saps a baddie's will to fight.
 

boris

New member
man!!

i so very much apreciate what y'all have to say on this. i had some of these loaded by a buddy of mine a while back. he said "emergency use only" keep it comin'!!!
 

5.56_Spartan

New member
The thing I look for with +P is the increased hydrostatic shock caused by the energy transfer. I don't think there's ever been any major study of the effects of this shock to the nervous system, but my guess is it has to be major. Added psychological effect is very desireable IMHO, because it saps a baddie's will to fight.

I won't disagree..... the more pain I can put into the BG's the better. The question ends up being; in many shots more than 13" = outside the torso. So is the energy wasted? :confused:

At the same time, many of us on these forums practice regularly, but I think most of us would agree that the average CPL (CCW, CCP) holder doesn't practice near enough to be familiar with their weapon with +P ammo.

:cool:
 

mot mayhem

New member
Good question! Heavy coats in winter could cause some concern and with that, I can see the use of a 357mag..hmmmm


I like the .357, but mine is a long barrelled hunting pistola.

Do those .357 sigs have problems loading being a bottleneck round, into a short action semi, as opposed to a longer, stronger setup in rifles?
 

Hoplites1234

New member
I've a box of +p 9mm that I've been waiting to get to practice with, guess tomorrows the day and I'll try out the Glock too boot.
 

ishi

New member
+P shock wave?

I won't disagree..... the more pain I can put into the BG's the better. The question ends up being; in many shots more than 13" = outside the torso. So is the energy wasted? :confused:
:cool:

I've thought about this a bit from a physics perspective...

I think of the hydrostatic shock as a "wave" in human flesh created by a projectile. For the attacker to feel that wave, it needs to be as tall (amplitude) as possible.

Next, think about making a wave with your hand in a bathtub. The strongest wave is created by pushing the water constantly. If your hand slows down too much as it moves through the water, the wave won't be made, because waves are created by matter that's displaced at a constant speed... The force creating a wave should go at as constant a speed as possible.

Thinking about a slow bullet passing through flesh, especially a hollow point, a dramatic slowdown occurs. If the bullet stops before it exits the body, then it was slowing down for a long time in its path through the body. Its speed was not anywhere near constant. I wouldn't expect much of a wave to be created by such a projectile.

For a quite fast bullet, let's say the .357 Magnum, the bullet tears through the body hardly slowing down at all. I've heard the phrase "struck by lightning" attributed to the effect of this bullet. Since the bullet was very fast, and hardly slowed down, it was traveling at a more constant velocity during its traversal of the body. So, it makes sense that a very strong shock wave was created. Hopefully, as the wave traveled through the body, it affected many parts of the nervous system and overloaded the brain with input.

This particular effect may be lost on assailants who are on drugs that disrupt their nervous system. But of course, the bullet will still do a number on whatever it went through.

Anyway, if this hypothesis is true, then overpenetration goes hand in hand with an effective "hydrostatic shock" effect. Be sure of your target and what is behind your target... :eek:

Physics majors feel free to debunk my layman's understanding of wave dynamics.
 
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Tarzan1888

New member
what do you guys think? better than rocks? yes. my police academy instructor said he prefered wadcutters loaded to + P pressures, especially during the winter because hollow points could get tangled up in heavy coats. thoughts/experiences?

If you use ENOUGH gun, you don't need +P

Tarzan
 

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