opinions on HR 822, the federal ccw reciprocity act

[longslide10]

There are some well intentioned pro-gun organizations who oppose this bill saying this will be a door to more federal gun control and others that say it is a good idea and will alleviate some headaches as we that carry concealed travel about the country. I am all for the bill but I believe we must keep apprised of bill content and reject anything that would restrict our second amendment right or give government too much control. What's your opinion?

 

[Speedbump]

I agree with you. We have to keep our eyes wide open. I started a thread like this a week or so back. Had a lot of opinions on it. Some for, some against and some not so sure, which is where I am. I sort of lean toward going with it since the NRA is for it. They haven't let us down yet (other than all the spam) and hopefully they are watching it real close.

 

[Gaucho]

It is the only way I can carry in my home state of Oregon currently being in a state not contiguous to it anymore. I just wish this could get passed before Thanksgiving.

 

[longslide10]

I get negative feedback from NAGR but 2 others I am associated with, Buckeye Firearms Assoc. and USCCA are both for it and with NRA behind it I like the idea however I know anti-gun House members will try and sneak in some amendments to it.

 

[Phillip Gain]

I'm with the NRA on this one..

I think that rejecting a piece of legislation because of "what might be added to it" or "what doors it might open" is pure idiocy. On that logic, we gun owners could not suppor ANY legislation. For those unfamiliar with the legislative process...any amendment can be added or taken away from ANY bill prior to its passing.

So far, ALL the anti-gun amendments designed to gut and neuter HR 822 have been defeated and removed.

While I believe, in principle, that there really should not be much (if any) firearms legislation beyond the 2nd Amendment...the reality is that legislation infringing our 2nd Amendment rights DOES exist, and IS NOT going to just go away. The strategy of composing legislation affirming and clarifying the rights of the gun owner has been largely successful, and I see no reason for it not to be successful in this case.

Lastly - when it comes to legal issues...I'm quite certain the NRA can afford (and does have) more savvy and competent attorneys than do the organizations who are nay-saying the legislation.

 

[Aaron Manning]

There are two valid arguments regarding this bill: The Pro-gunners who oppose it say that it's too meddling on the states rights front. While I can see their point, the Constitution trumps states rights; specifically when it comes to the "keep and bear arms" clause in the 2A! They point to the 10A 'enumeration', saying that it violates states ability to regulate arms, but the 2A already provides that "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"; therefore it can't be a violation to tell the states that they must not violate an already enumerated prohibition. In my view, a states CCW, CCDWP, CHP, etc. is basically like a driver's license; states don't question an out of state driver on the validity or merits of his/her driving permit, so how can states question another license issued by the same state? Sure there's federal standards for issuance of driver licenses--something I do not advocate for CCW--but most states have essentially the same process for getting a CCW; pass a background check, take a class, show some competency (granted that's NOT the process for all states).

It really boils down to this: the states' enumerated power to reject out-of-state CCW permits does not exist. The 2A is Constitutional mandate and not subject to infringement by the states. Freedoms protected by the Constitution are outside the jurisdictional regulation of the states. Requiring that one get a CCW permit is a violation of the 2A protection, but we have to chip away at these ridiculous infringements piecemeal if we want our God-given and Constitutionally protected freedoms preserved.

 

[mncarrydude]

The opposition has already tried to sneak some bullsh$t into the bill and the NRA shot them all down, as per one Rachel Pardons on last weeks Armed American Radio show.

 

[WB9IIE]

The only real problem that I see with this bill is that the 2A appears to not extend into Illinois or the District of Columbia. It just provides reciprocity for states that have provisions for issue of a handgun carry permit. It is not universal, and when you get to the state line of Illinois, or drive into Washington, D.C., you become a felon and subject to arrest. This looks like it could provide some interesting case law for anyone willing to go to the trouble of getting arrested, finding a good lawyer, and having the fortune to beat the state law in the judiciary. HR 822 needs to be a NATIONWIDE law requiring ALL states to honor the Second Amendment.

 

[Shawn Jarman]

If my thinking is correct?, the ones that are against it, think that if this law is past, that the government will be the one's issuing the permits, this isnt what the H.R.822 is about, It's just like the Drivers lic., state issue them and all other state honor each others state lic., the only state that wouldnt be involved is illinois, sence they deprive there citizen of there 2nd amendment rights, As for me?, im for it

 

[Speedbump]

Quote "The only real problem that I see with this bill is that the 2A appears to not extend into Illinois or the District of Columbia."

Yeah, that's a shame, but it's still a step in the right direction.
I also recognized the WB9 call. I figured you were probably in Illinois. I'm in 4 land. kf4mm.
73

 

[Malakai Christoff]

Question?

Just so im clear? If the bill passes, it will require federally all states w/some type ccw in place to accept all resident & non resident ccw permits? Is that correct? For Ex, im a NJ resident with a Utah NRCWP, that will be Now accepted in my home state of NJ (once Hr822 passes)?

 

[mrjam2jab]

Just so im clear? If the bill passes, it will require federally all states w/some type ccw in place to accept all resident & non resident ccw permits? Is that correct? For Ex, im a NJ resident with a Utah NRCWP, that will be Now accepted in my home state of NJ (once Hr822 passes)?

Incorrect. You could use your UT permit to carry 48 other states...not IL and not your home state.

‘‘§926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain con-
cealed firearms
‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any
State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided
in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Fed-
eral law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiv-
ing a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification
document containing a photograph of the person, and a
valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law
of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun
(other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has
been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign com-
merce, in any State, other than the State of residence of
the person, that—
‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the
State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed
firearms; or
‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
firearms by residents of the State for lawful pur-
poses.

 

[Malakai Christoff]

Thats unfortunate and dissapointing. I hope your wrong.

 

[sp2022]

"Incorrect. You could use your UT permit to carry 48 other states...not IL and not your home state."

So if a state is a "may issue" and does not give you a permit. You can get one from another state and carry in all states but your own??? Then others from other states with permits can carry in your state??? Not clear on any of this. So if I am not a permanent resident of the US and have a permit for non resident in NH.I can carry in any states except for IL? I am confused???

 

[mrjam2jab]

"Incorrect. You could use your UT permit to carry 48 other states...not IL and not your home state."

So if a state is a "may issue" and does not give you a permit. You can get one from another state and carry in all states but your own??? Then others from other states with permits can carry in your state??? Not clear on any of this. So if I am not a permanent resident of the US and have a permit for non resident in NH.I can carry in any states except for IL? I am confused???

I live in PA. NJ (May Issue) doesn't really issue permits to anybody, but they do have a permit process. I could carry in NJ with a PA permit. A NJ resident could not carry in NJ with a PA permit. But a NJ resident could get a PA permit and carry in MD, or HI, or any other state that has a permit process.

 

[sp2022]

So if this new law is passed. If I hold permits for NH and ME. I then would legally be allowed to carry in NY and any other state with a so called "may issue". as long as I do not live in that state? If this is true, this will benefit me. I have relatives in NY and spend every weekend and holidays there.

 

[DLB1964]

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