Open Carry while shopping: Please take your gun outside

[Danmc]

I work retail for a big box store(no not Wal-Mart)and one of the store's policies is no firearms allowed on the premises. Our store is a private membership business and the store is exempt from the laws of public accommodation. The store does not need to post signage, nor wants to clutter up the walls with signs that most people don't even read, all the store needs to do is make aware our policy, which is more often than not by direct personal contact. So on occasion I am the lucky one who gets to approach a person who is OC in the store and kindly explain to them the policy and ask them to take the gun out of the store. Most express their feelings, then oblige. A few more express their feelings even more, then stomp off mad. Then there are the few that quite honestly are total jack-azzes. Those are the ones where I have my phone in my hand and have stepped away from the person, ready to dial 911 because they are total fanatics. These are the ones who have a couple of blown fuses up-satirs and probably shouldn't be carrying a gun around anyway. You know the ones.

I of course believe in the right to OC, even though I really don't OC often because I prefer to CC. I always dislike being the "lucky" one to approach an OC in the store, because I again, believe in the right to OC. But I want to ask you OC folks this: Is there any good way for me to approach you concerning the matter? I want to respect your right, but I also want you to respect the store's right. Or put another way, why should you get mad at the store's right while wanting the store to respect yours?

 

[sig p6]

I think we have a TROLL HERE!

 

[Danmc]

I think we have a TROLL HERE!

Troll? Really? What about my post is trollish?

 

[Bighouse Doc]

What store is this so we can post them to other RKBA site?

-Doc

 

[Firefighterchen]

Interesting question. Never heard it come up here before from this perspective.

I open carry and have yet to have someone approach me to leave their store. I know plenty of stores have firearm policies, I know their empolyees may or may not agree with the policies, and I know with this economy they can't really just go find another job. That being said, be up front with what the policy says, and dont go into what you personally believe. There will always be jerks, even if the incident has nothing to do with firearms.

I can't speak for all open carriers, but I personally would not get angry. I may disagree, but that just means my money and time will be spent elsewhere. If you feel strongy against your store policy, that is something you should be taking up with your store, not with the customer.

 

[Danmc]

What store is this so we can post them to other RKBA site?

-Doc

So based on the responses so far, I would guess that there is not a good way to ask an OC not to do so on the premises?

 

[Danmc]

Interesting question. Never heard it come up here before from this perspective.

I open carry and have yet to have someone approach me to leave their store. I know plenty of stores have firearm policies, I know their empolyees may or may not agree with the policies, and I know with this economy they can't really just go find another job. That being said, be up front with what the policy says, and dont go into what you personally believe. There will always be jerks, even if the incident has nothing to do with firearms.

I can't speak for all open carriers, but I personally would not get angry. I may disagree, but that just means my money and time will be spent elsewhere. If you feel strongy against your store policy, that is something you should be taking up with your store, not with the customer.

When I am the elected one to approach, I do quickly and politely explain policy. I do not offer my personal opinions...anymore. I have in the past and that just seems to add fuel to the fire.

 

[KCD1974]

Not a troll...See tell tale signs below:

1> A very small number of posts, generally under 10
2> A completely controversial question (Such as what if I shoot someone in the head for squirting water on me, but they may have had a knife too, or a question equally as dumb)
3> Generally they use the incorrect terms for items as well.

Now with that out of the way....Honestly DANMC, it's going to be up to the person you tell as to how they react. The phrase "don't shoot the messenger" comes to mind. The best way you can tell anyone something they are not going to like is by explaining it to them politely, you may even interject that you personally don't agree with the policy, but since you are not the owner, there is little you can do. Perhaps even apologize....

The goal isn't to make the company policy sound fantastic or to be an ass, it's to encourage the CUSTOMER to comply with something they are not really going to like and not get so mad they leave and not come back.

I would approach it like this:

Hello (Sir or Mam),

How are you today? The reason for my approaching you is due to a store policy that is conflicting with you openly carrying your firearm. I apologize for having to ask you to please store your firearm in your vehicle, as I personally believe that it is person's right to keep and bear arms, but the corporate policy over rides my personal beliefs. If you would like I can provide you with the corporate office's address or email so you can send the your comments or suggestions directly to the people that make the decisions.

Again, I apologize for any inconvenience that is may cause you and I wish the situation was different...Extend a hand shake....

If the person is going to get all upset after that, well that's just the type of person they are, nothing you can do differently to fix that....

I missed the above opinions of avoiding interjecting your own opinion, but I think I would, I think people can tell when someone is lying about it and that is what sets them off. But there is little you can offer up to placate them, perhaps a free hot dog? lol....That may upset them more

 

[crowsnake]

Same guy who ask what gun u want 2 B shot with

 

[Firefighterchen]

I agree with KDC, if you are polite and the customer gets angry...then there was really nothing you could have done to fix that. As to whether or not you want to interject your personal opinion, I was thinking of it happening to me and what I would want to hear. Whichever way you choose to encounter the individual, keep doing so politely. For whatever reason your store has decided to not serve this customer, it is trespassing if you ask them to leave and they refuse.

Again though...your store is losing a lot of business, because any business that approaches me will not get a fight, but will not get my business, my families business, or my friends business.

 

[Danmc]

Same guy who ask what gun u want 2 B shot with

Yes, same guy. So do you have any input on this post that might help me out? A couple of folks have posted more positive comments, things that will help me out when I am subjected to approaching somebody with a gun who may not like what I have to say, even though I really don't want to say it.

 

[Danmc]

I agree with KDC, if you are polite and the customer gets angry...then there was really nothing you could have done to fix that. As to whether or not you want to interject your personal opinion, I was thinking of it happening to me and what I would want to hear. Whichever way you choose to encounter the individual, keep doing so politely. For whatever reason your store has decided to not serve this customer, it is trespassing if you ask them to leave and they refuse.

Again though...your store is loosing a lot of business, because any business that approaches me will not get a fight, but will not get my business, my families business, or my friends business.

Yes, most businesses do not want to turn away customers, and ours is no exception. However, because we live in an increasingly more gun shy world, we get 15 complaints from customers telling us that they will quit shopping in our store because of the scary man with the gun. So our business has to make a decision: Do we pizz off 1 customer and lose his business, or do we pizz off 15 customers and lose their business?

 

[Danmc]

What I am trying to do here is keep everybody happy. So my OP is simply asking the question, how do I keep the OC crowd shopping with us without pizzing you all off, while still maintaining my other "scared" customers? People are funny. They tell me they only buy American, as they jump in to their Toyota and drive away.

 

[cgiven1]

Number one fix is to post signage and make people publicly aware of the policy. You are doing a disservice and providing poor customer service when you have to single them out and ask them to leave after the fact. People don't like to be singled out. When they make a stop at a business they don't want to have to change their plans after going to the trouble of getting there to begin with. It sounds to me like your employers are trying to have it both ways. Their policy is no guns, yet they don't post the policy. Some one who is carrying concealed can come and go and nobody would know the difference. However, open carry and their asked to leave. It sounds to me like a dishonest business playing both sides against each other. I'm not saying their wrong to have the policy. It's their choice. They just don't seem to make the choice with any conviction other than appeasing one base while pissing off just a small number of another base.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Number one fix is to post signage and make people publicly aware of the policy. You are doing a disservice and providing poor customer service when you have to single them out and ask them to leave after the fact. People don't like to be singled out. When they make a stop at a business they don't want to have to change their plans after going to the trouble of getting there to begin with. It sounds to me like your employers are trying to have it both ways. Their policy is no guns, yet they don't post the policy. Some one who is carrying concealed can come and go and nobody would know the difference. However, open carry and their asked to leave. It sounds to me like a dishonest business playing both sides against each other. I'm not saying their wrong to have the policy. It's their choice. They just don't seem to make the choice with any conviction other than appeasing one base while pissing off just a small number of another base.

Good post.

Dan, It may seem up front your company is only losing one customer, but most gun owners know other gun owners and it will get around your store its not gun friendly.

How does your company approach a concealed carrier that has been spotted? Would they ask them to conceal it better or leave?

 

[SouthernBoy]

My experiences echo yours and your answer is what I would suggest as well. Nice response.

 

[Phillip Gain]

In my opinion, the store needs to POST THE POLICY. I don't care whether or not the law requires it. POST IT.

It could be argued that the employer is putting you in a compromised position by forcing you to be unarmed, then forcing you to confront an armed customer. You could point out that if something were to happen to an employee in such a position, the employee would have very solid grounds for a lawsuit and workers comp claim. I bet THAT would get them to put the damn sign up!!

(I'm sure your attorney could phrase it better...but there ya have it.)

 

[ajr2820]

Same guy who ask what gun u want 2 B shot with

You are correct crow...I say the dude is a troll!

 

[Flanmedic51]

I agree with Phillip...that seems like common sense so you're not the one having to do the confrontation. Its also one of those risks you run as an OCer. But certainly two sides to this. Store policy and the self righteous OCer. Too bad on all levels.

 

[JJW]

While I do agree that posting is probably the best answer. Corporate offices have already decided against that. Not something the employee can change right now. So what is "plan B"? It has been my experience that less conversation is sometimes best. Approach the OC subject and advise them of the policy, and request that they take it outside, and back off. If they continue to shop call 911, if they want to discuss it, call 911, if the leave mad Oh-well. Remember it is your position to advise and request, not explain or enforce. By all means, do not express your personal opinion, it will only serve to encourage conversation and defiance. Make sure that they understand that you do not set policy and if they wish to see it changed, contact corporate offices and register a compliant. Do not give them the opportunity to tell corporate that you agree with them, and are against the corporate policy, that is none of their business. At least not if you need your job.