Open Carry Opinions

[sambo42xa]

I've been carrying non-Open. And to be honest, I actually for the first time this past Sunday Open Carried. My jacket did in away conceal to a point. I was still covered either way IF I was confronted by an officer because I had my permit. Why I didn't 100% Open Carry, I don't know. Maybe the jacket I was wearing?? It is only 18 degree's over here ya know. Maybe in a Small town (like the one I live in) Open Carry is acceptable because everyone has been around guns. Go in the Bigger Towns and people react differently because They have no clue.

 

[Madpegtod]

Um yes. Anyone who does carry openly without an active retention device is just asking to have their gun snatched, in my opinion. If you're going to spend several hundred dollars on a firearm, why wouldn't anyone spend just as much to protect their investment? Dumb, dumb, dumb!

I have open carried for nearly a year now and just recently converted to a holster with an active retention device (yesterday as a matter of fact.) However; it wasn't because of any of the reasons you mentioned. I sat down in a booth at a restaurant and my grip caught the edge and nearly dumped the gun out of my holster. Someone grabbing my gun ranks pretty low on my carry concerns.

 

[squisher]

Um yes. Anyone who does carry openly without an active retention device is just asking to have their gun snatched, in my opinion. If you're going to spend several hundred dollars on a firearm, why wouldn't anyone spend just as much to protect their investment? Dumb, dumb, dumb!

I'm going to be bluntly honest here, and possibly offensive to some people's sensitivities, but even on retention level 0 holsters (like mine), if you get your gun stolen from out of your holster, you largely deserve it because you weren't paying attention. I don't wish that to happen, but think about it. If you are close enough to condition white to not notice the attempt (plus most 0 holsters still require a straight draw, any angle, like to the side or behind will make it much more difficult) probably ought not be carrying in the first place. That's just how I feel, and you may think different, but honestly I think active retention is more of a mind thing than it really is anything truly necessary. Basically, if it makes you feel better, then use it.

Now, that is not to say that retention holsters aren't nice. They can provide the carrier with a little more peace of mind that it takes a very specific set of actions to release the weapon from the holster so they don't have to worry about it bouncing out if they trip/stumble (good level 0's should have enough friction to prevent this as well but i digress...), or if they for some reason have their body at an odd angle (bending down and reaching for something? IDK but I guess it's possible...).

Another reason some OC'ers use active retention is that they think that it helps the uneducated citizens they are among feel better about it, especially guys who like to carry 1911's they way they are meant to. To an average joe, they feel better when that thumb break retention strap is between the cocked hammer and firing pin (even though the 1911 is perfectly safe when carried like Mr. Browning intended).

ETA: I missed MadPegTod's example of why he has a retention holster, which to me seems much more realistic than the possibility of theft.

 

[AllAmerican]

Um yes. Anyone who does carry openly without an active retention device is just asking to have their gun snatched, in my opinion. If you're going to spend several hundred dollars on a firearm, why wouldn't anyone spend just as much to protect their investment? Dumb, dumb, dumb!

And yet you show us no evidence of a civilian having their gun snatched. Ever try to pull a gun out of a fobus holster? Its only coming one way.

Same can be said for leather. The right fit is the right fit. Also, if you're letting folks get that close you have no idea what situational awareness is. I dont mean you personally there. I mean in general.

Im not arguing either way. It should be legal to OC everywhere period. Thats not to say everyone has to.

 

[tattedupboy]

And yet you show us no evidence of a civilian having their gun snatched. Ever try to pull a gun out of a fobus holster? Its only coming one way.

Same can be said for leather. The right fit is the right fit. Also, if you're letting folks get that close you have no idea what situational awareness is. I dont mean you personally there. I mean in general.

Im not arguing either way. It should be legal to OC everywhere period. Thats not to say everyone has to.

Nope, I have no evidence of this and haven't tried to find any. Would you openly carry a handgun in a holster with no active retention? Would you walk into a crowd carrying this way?

These questions are rhetorical of course, but many leather holsters have a thumb break or other active retention device in order to protect against these gun grabs that you say I have no evidence of. Are you saying that people who want an extra layer of security and decide to get one of these holsters are paranoid and worrying over nothing? Say what you will about the lack of evidence of people getting their guns snatched (which, by the way, I agree would be more a result of inattentiveness than holster design), but if I were to open carry, I'd rather have a retention device than not. You can't have your arm down at your side at all times, such as when you're standing in line to sign your credit card receipt or write a check. Just a fact.

 

[Glock Fan]

I like some kind of retention device on my holsters to prevent my gun from falling out. There have been many situations I've been in where the thumb break, Serpa design, etc. has prevented my gun from dropping out of the holster. A gun grab is not my main concern, "Mr. Murphy" is the bigger concern for me. For the record, most LE agencies who have policies that the officer's holsters have a "visible retention device" is more to "deter" wise guys from attempting to grab an officer's gun than to actually prevent the gun grab. Many duty holsters have at least 2 retention devices. The "thumb break" or other "visible retention device" is an added layer of security.



gf

 

[gdcleanfun]

You can't have your arm down at your side at all times, such as when you're standing in line to sign your credit card receipt or write a check. Just a fact.

I've done both, but this is one good reason for concealed carry rather than open carry.

 

[squisher]

Nope, I have no evidence of this and haven't tried to find any. Would you openly carry a handgun in a holster with no active retention? Would you walk into a crowd carrying this way?

Yes, and have done so in the past, and probably will in the future. Cases like that, thumb hooks in my pocket and elbow tucks the weapon. Heck, I do that in a crowd even when i'm CC'ing.

... I'd rather have a retention device than not. You can't have your arm down at your side at all times, such as when you're standing in line to sign your credit card receipt or write a check. Just a fact.

Never said that active retention was a bad idea, but I would argue that they are not strictly necessary. There are definitely going to be times when it's handy.

If I have to use my right hand in a situation like that I will twist my body a bit so the gun is between me and the counter to make it less accessible. Or, barring that make sure that the weapon is on the far side of my body from the nearest other person. Not perfect for sure, but better than nothing. Plus, that sort of situation is usually fairly low-risk in the first place (and, for me anyway, my wife/son is right behind me 99% of the time, I rarely go shopping w/o them, 4/6 eyes are better than 2).

Not everyone has somebody with them all the time of course. I guess it's just a matter of comfort (psychological) and personal acceptance of risk.

 

[tattedupboy]

Yes, and have done so in the past, and probably will in the future. Cases like that, thumb hooks in my pocket and elbow tucks the weapon. Heck, I do that in a crowd even when i'm CC'ing.



Never said that active retention was a bad idea, but I would argue that they are not strictly necessary. There are definitely going to be times when it's handy.

If I have to use my right hand in a situation like that I will twist my body a bit so the gun is between me and the counter to make it less accessible. Or, barring that make sure that the weapon is on the far side of my body from the nearest other person. Not perfect for sure, but better than nothing. Plus, that sort of situation is usually fairly low-risk in the first place (and, for me anyway, my wife/son is right behind me 99% of the time, I rarely go shopping w/o them, 4/6 eyes are better than 2).

Not everyone has somebody with them all the time of course. I guess it's just a matter of comfort (psychological) and personal acceptance of risk.

It's better to just have a retention device.

 

[squisher]

It's better to just have a retention device.

Sounds like we'll have to agree to disagree. I still don't see that it makes a whole lot of actual difference one way or the other. "Better" when you're talking about holsters is more in the preference in the user.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and it is up to the individual to decide what works best for him or her.

 

[S&WM&P40]

It's better to just have a retention device.

Whats your Definition of a retention device? As i use a custom made holster from UBG and it has no thumb break or other lock that holds it in. It just fits in like a glove and i can flip it up side down and jerk it up and down . That gun does not move.

 

[rrc1962]

Sounds like we'll have to agree to disagree. I still don't see that it makes a whole lot of actual difference one way or the other. "Better" when you're talking about holsters is more in the preference in the user.

I agree. My primary is also a PT92. I just bought a fobus for it which has passive retention. That's enough to keep it in place if it's tipped upside down. To draw the gun quickly, you really have to draw straight up. I suppose it's possible that someone could snatch it, but it's more likely that the gun would not come out of the holster clean, which buys you the time to defend the attack. If we're talking about a loose fitting universal nylon holster, the chances of a gun grab are much better.

Of course the down side to active retention is the chance that you won't be able to draw quick enough. I know it's all about muscle memory and practice, but there is still that chance.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I open carry about 95% of the time. Instances where I don't are like meeting a new girlfriend for the first time at the daycare that she owns. Just thought the whole situation added up to good reason to conceal - new girlfriend, didn't want kids there to make a deal about it. As soon as we left the daycare, I exposed myself and I must say things have taken a much positive turn ever since! :yu::wub:

I open carry because:

#1 The "element of surprise" has historically been an offensive strategic advantage. Visible detterence has historically been a defensive strategic advantage. I would rather deter something from happening to me than defend myself against something in the process of happening.

#2 Public example and education that it is perfectly acceptable for an American citizen to possess the means to protect themselves.

#3 It's just easier. I don't have to make any wardrobe adjustments to fit any particular method of carry. I just carry. If a shirt is tucked in, it's open. If I get cold and throw a coat on, it's concealed. I just don't waste any time or effort on it.

 

[defender829]

Quoting Glockster20: On the back of the CC permit in AL. are six rules. First rule on the list;

"This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly"."

My pistol permit, issued in Washington County on 7/24/08 mentions only one rule: "Void if under the influence of alchhol or drugs." Does each county have their own cards? I know the county sherriffs can handle concealed carry however they like, but I undersood that open carry was unrestricted statewide. Is your sherriff overstepping legal bounds?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Quoting Glockster20: On the back of the CC permit in AL. are six rules. First rule on the list;

"This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly"."

My pistol permit, issued in Washington County on 7/24/08 mentions only one rule: "Void if under the influence of alchhol or drugs." Does each county have their own cards? I know the county sherriffs can handle concealed carry however they like, but I undersood that open carry was unrestricted statewide. Is your sherriff overstepping legal bounds?

Opencarry.org says that in Alabama no permit is required for open carry in public. Therefore, the statement "This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly" really is a true statement. It's not the CPL that permits it, it is a lack of prohibited state law that permits it. However, according to Opencarry.org, a permit is required for open carry in a vehicle, so therefore, the permit with the above statement would, aparantly, still make it illegal for the holder to open carry in a vehicle.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Quoting Glockster20: On the back of the CC permit in AL. are six rules. First rule on the list;

"This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly"."

My pistol permit, issued in Washington County on 7/24/08 mentions only one rule: "Void if under the influence of alchhol or drugs." Does each county have their own cards? I know the county sherriffs can handle concealed carry however they like, but I undersood that open carry was unrestricted statewide. Is your sherriff overstepping legal bounds?

Sounds to me like you need a statewide standard that every county has to abide by. Here in Michigan, CPLs are issued by county gun boards, but they all have to follow the same rules and regs. No putting on special rules that they prefer over some other county gun board.

 

[Glockster20]

Sounds to me like you need a statewide standard that every county has to abide by. Here in Michigan, CPLs are issued by county gun boards, but they all have to follow the same rules and regs. No putting on special rules that they prefer over some other county gun board.

The County Sheriff in AL has a lot of power... and as netentity pointed out in another thread, the laws here in AL are strange. The Sheriff of each county is responsible for issuing pistol permits and CAN set the boundaries on these permits to some degree. There are some standards that are statewide, i.e carrying in a courthouse, federal building, air terminal, etc... I believe most of the Sheriff's and Police Chiefs here in AL frown on open carry. I myself have never seen a civilian open carrying a firearm here. Every person in plain clothes that I have ever seen carrying openely, had a badge holder on their belt.

 

[Glockster20]

Quoting Glockster20: On the back of the CC permit in AL. are six rules. First rule on the list;

"This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly"."

My pistol permit, issued in Washington County on 7/24/08 mentions only one rule: "Void if under the influence of alchhol or drugs." Does each county have their own cards? I know the county sherriffs can handle concealed carry however they like, but I undersood that open carry was unrestricted statewide. Is your sherriff overstepping legal bounds?

That rule is on the back of the St. Clair County permit as well. I think through the Alabama Sheriff's Association that all Sheriff's agree with that particular rule.

 

[Madpegtod]

Of course the permit does not "permit" you to open carry. You do not need a permit to carry openly. That statement is merely there for intimidation. People are always asking where in the Alabama Code does it allow you to open carry? It isn't in the code. If there is no law written which specifically forbids something, then it is legal to do so. I had a permit in Henry County, AL for years. You have a lot more rights than you know.

 

[Glockster20]

Of course the permit does not "permit" you to open carry. You do not need a permit to carry openly. That statement is merely there for intimidation. People are always asking where in the Alabama Code does it allow you to open carry? It isn't in the code. If there is no law written which specifically forbids something, then it is legal to do so. I had a permit in Henry County, AL for years. You have a lot more rights than you know.

I meant the "void if under the influence of drugs and or alchohol" rule. Yes, I understand your statement about open carry and you are correct. I too believe it is there for intimidation purposes and from what I've seen here in AL, it is working.