Open Carry and Alcohol Limits

[dgs50819]

This was my answer from the Michigan State Police.

The answers to both of your questions are found in MCL 28.425k and I have included a link to that section below:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5u...etObject&objectName=mcl-28-425k&highlight=.02


1) MCL 28.425k provides, in part:
"An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section."

The standard applies to any CPL holder carrying a pistol, not just driving with a pistol.

2) An individual carrying a concealed pistol with any BAC is subject to immediate seizure of their pistol and the following penalties:

BAC of .02 - .07 = State civil infraction, $100 fine, and up to 1-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .08 - .09 = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and up to 3-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .10 or more = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and permanent CCW license revocation.


Best Regards,
Sgt H ...
Michigan State Police

Also - A local police detective told me said that this is basisally the same standard for open carry, and that the state law applies regardless if you are driving, walking, hunting, etc. in a public area

 

[JJFlash]

Your post sounds like you're worried about the breathalyzer results if you had a drink or two and were carrying (excuse me if I'm wrong on this). We had a rather lengthy thread and discussion some time ago on this topic and if I recall the bottom line consensus (not all, but most) said "don't drink at all and carry".

Using this "abstinence method" you wouldn't have to worry at all about a second offense, at least as far as drinking goes, anyway.

 

[AvidshooterTX]

Probably sound advice. If you absolutely have to shoot someone you will be crucified if you have any alcohol in your system.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Probably sound advice. If you absolutely have to shoot someone you will be crucified if you have any alcohol in your system.

You're DONE if you shoot someone with anything in your system. Even if it was a good shoot you were "intoxicated" and your judgment was effected. My state says having ANY alcohol/narcotics in your system while carrying is "negligent use of a deadly weapon"

 

[Ga9mm]

I've never even thought about such limitations existing. Wonder why there is an allowance at all...

 

[JJFlash]

I've never even thought about such limitations existing. Wonder why there is an allowance at all...

I guess cause in some states, it's legal to carry in bars and even drink. I don't think that's the norm, but several have posted that's the case where they live. I don't remember the states....

 

[Ga9mm]

Now that you mention it, that sounds familiar. I'll just keep it a personal preference to hold off. If it ever happens where push comes to shove, I don't want anything working against me at all that can be avoided.

 

[79broncoguy]

wondering why you whould drink and carry a firearm is beside me... no matter how good you might think you with alochol in your system you will be inpared... most states driving with any thing over .02-.079 is driving inpared... if you feel you must drive home after drinking dumb idea by its self then add a gun to the equasion think $1,000 fine and revocation whould be the least of your worries. siice you have ccw pretty shure it going to be the same laws, but if you must drive home lock it case it seprate it from ammo have it out of your reach then you just have to worry about the driving impared/dui carge

 

[dgs50819]

Guns and Alcohol

Appreciate all of the feedback. Funny thing is that I asked the Michigan State Police the same thing and they don't answer.

My point was not that I wanted to booze up and run around with a pistol in my belt. I am well aware of the risk of that type of action. I am just trying to find out the legal limits and issues of carrying a weapon with alcohol on your breath, even if its only a little. For example, they say if you hacve a CCW you can open carry into a bar. Well, what if you have a beer while you are there? Did you break some kind of law? I really don't believe that one or two beers in an hour is going to get you in troulbe even if you had to use your weapon.

Another question arose in later disucssions - What if a passenger in my car carried open or with a CCW and was drinking, even if I was not? Am I liable for something becasue I didn't think to ask him to lock up the gun?

I know we are supposed to think of those things and behave well at all times, but S--- happens!. I am not looking for a reason to do dumb things. Just wondering what the laws are covering those dumb things.

If I ever do get some official info from the police or a credible lawyer, I will post it.

 

[Unfettered Might]

If I ever do get some official info from the police

Information from the police on anything to do with the carrying of a firearm, at least in my experience, will not be entirely truthful and on some of the more obscure issues, most likely just wrong.

Look them up or contact a PRO GUN attorney.

I find myself educating the LEOs more than they've educated me.....

For example, how many LEOs in Kentucky know that you can OC a firearm into a bar as long as it's UNLOADED. Concealed carry is forbidden and most would think that of OC too. I would bet you, 9 out of 10 wouldn't believe me unless I showed it to them in black and white.

 

[2beararms]

I guess cause in some states, it's legal to carry in bars and even drink. I don't think that's the norm, but several have posted that's the case where they live. I don't remember the states....

Florida is one of those states (sorta), here you may carry into restaruants that serve alcohol and consume while carrying. You can't carry in "bars" however. There is a limit (I believe it is .05) however, that is only for "handling" your firearm (loaded and in your hand). Technically you can be drunk and if it is in its holster and your hands not on it, you are OK.

Here is the good stuff. Violation is only a misdemeanor and you MAY use your weapon, even if intoxicated, in self-defense !!!!


(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. Link Removed or s. Link Removed
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one's property.

Welcome to Florida!

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Florida is one of those states (sorta), here you may carry into restaruants that serve alcohol and consume while carrying. You can't carry in "bars" however. There is a limit (I believe it is .05) however, that is only for "handling" your firearm (loaded and in your hand). Technically you can be drunk and if it is in its holster and your hands not on it, you are OK.

Here is the good stuff. Violation is only a misdemeanor and you MAY use your weapon, even if intoxicated, in self-defense !!!!


(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. Link Removed or s. Link Removed
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one's property.

Welcome to Florida!

WOW! I'm not saying those who drink should be defenseless, but wow..

 

[kelcarry]

Many good replies. How we can be talking about drinking at any level and OC or CC is beyond me. To not understand this is to be looking for trouble---big trouble. Just sayin from an old man.

 

[SpaceFrank]

Texas is also one of those "zero tolerance" states when it comes to alcohol and carrying. I seem to remember hearing that Louisiana had a .05 limit. I understand the good intent behind having limits like this, but if you can legally drive a car, why shouldn't you be able to legally defend yourself? After all, cars have been ruled as deadly weapons in plenty of cases.

IMHO, blood alcohol level shouldn't be a factor in determining the legality of a self-defense incident. If it was a justified shoot sober, it should still be justified after a couple beers. If your intoxication caused you to use your weapon illegally, then you should be charged and punished in the same way as if your stupidity had caused it.

 

[surfcc]

WHY does this post even exist? It's very bothersome (to me) that one would need to even ask this. Booze and guns don't mix! :nono: Hello????

 

[2beararms]

WHY does this post even exist? It's very bothersome (to me) that one would need to even ask this. Booze and guns don't mix! :nono: Hello????

Sorry, I was too drunk to realize what you were saying the first time around :biggrin:.

Well seriously now... What you say is true, however, having a beer or a glass of wine with dinner to me is totally different than "drinking". If you are impaired to any degree on one beer, then you ARE an alcoholic because only the physical allergic reaction will impair a normal human with one drink.

Additionally, the ludicrous rule of not being able to carry into places that SERVE alcohol to prevent people from drinking and carrying simply hurts decent restaruants and the economy. To say I cannot defend myself in an establishment because my wife wants a glass of wine with dinner is rediculous.

The RULE here is RESPONSIBILITY!!! If you are going to be a drunk and carry a gun, the odds are you are going to do it with or without a law and probably are not that likely to bother to get a permit.

 

[CapGun]

It's simple. In my case if you see me having anything that has alcohol in it I am not carrying! I even emphasize to the server that the Coke, Ice Tea, milk is for me!
" Yes officer he was here. I served him a beer right before he left and shot that guy in the parking lot but that guy had is coming."

"Yes officer he was here. His wife had a beer he had a Coke with a piece of lemon in it right before he left and shot that guy in the parking lot but that guy had it coming!

Pick one that you want to hear as a witness account in court.

 

[Jim_Macklin]

Kansas law allows a CCHL to be in a bar that isn't posted. A BAC% of 0.08 is prima facie evidence you're under the influence which is not allowed if you carry concealed. But you can be arreste3d and convicted if you had a sip of wine and then acted in such a manner that you appeared to be under the influence.
If you act out of control, whether you have taken a medication or consumed an alcoholic drink, carrying a gun will get you arrested, whether you have a license or not. The charge will change, disorderly conduct, carry under influence, or something else.
Open carry or concealed, drunk and disorderly or just disorderly will still get you arrested.

KSA 75-7c12. Carrying concealed weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs prohibited; evidence; testing; revocation of license, when. ...
(1) If the alcohol concentration is less than .08, that fact may be considered with other competent evidence to determine if the defendant was under the influence of alcohol, or both alcohol and drugs. (2) If the alcohol concentration is .08 or more, it shall be prima facie evidence that the defendant was under the influence of alcohol.
(3) If there was present in the defendant's bodily substance any narcotic, hypnotic, somnifacient, stimulating or other drug which has the capacity to render the defendant incapacitated, that fact may be considered to determine if the defendant was under the influence of drugs, or both alcohol and drugs.
(c) The provisions of subsection (b) shall not be construed as limiting the introduction of any other competent evidence bearing upon the question of whether or not the defendant was under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or both.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey surfcc: I absolutely agree with; I believe I have basically the same reply on this thread---why are we even discussing this?
Hey 2beararms: You are also correct, in a manner of speaking, when we talk about a recreational beer while CC.
Obviously the problem is the open door on the issue. Is it 1 beer or 2 beers or 3 beers? Is it 1 beer and a whiskey shot chaser? The answer is if we allow an open door on drinking while CC, the punishment should be very Draconian. You are "caught" CC and at some predefined limit of alcohol (much less than the .8 standard) YOU GO TO JAIL. If you shoot someone, for whatever reason, and it is not a very clear cut case of imminent danger (and you have to prove it) you are charged with manslaughter. The onus has to be on those of us who are CC--we have been given an awesome responsibility and awesome consequences should flow from that. Just sayin

 

[clofwv]

Why would you even consider drinking and carrying cc or oc? I believe that as a representative of the legal carry community one should be a model citizen. Do NOT drink and carry. Obey traffic rules. Go the extra step to be responsible. If a glass of wine with dinner is desired, then lock up before you consume and don't present the opportunity for questioning.