Open Carry and Alcohol Limits


I don't Not Drink Anymore. At one time, Years Ago, I Thought About Drinking as a Career.... So Gave it Up.
I've Read the Posts...and Everyone seems to be taking it to extremes. I would NEVER advocate Guns and Booze...But, Let's face real world. This gets into the When do I carry or When Not? You should ALWAYS CARRY... So this Falls into the "I Guess I will NEVER Drink" area...when out. But, Drink at home? (Alone?) Wrong...Real World, You are Going to Dinner with your wife or Girl... You Carry. You Have one glass of wine... One Drink per Hour. That is the Limit... (Or Whatever LESSER Amount works for you..) Stopping by a Friends House and having a Beer while watching a Sports Game.. Then Driving home, LEGAL,...it is with a Carry Pistol as well. If you get angry, argue, messy, blurry, impaired in anyway, then you know YOUR limit... Don't do it. If you have a Problem and Don't know your limit, Then get Help, Dont Drink and Drive and Dont Carry a Gun.
I have never Heard of a case... (Except when the Shooter was DRUNK...Read DRUNK) that the question of one drink had a role... Prosecutors are used to running the law...if the LAW Says you were under the limit, you are under the limit. If you are Over, You are OVER... Period.
Bars are Not Legal to Carry in Any State that I know Of... But, Restaurants are... IF THE BUSINESS is Marketed or Profits more than 50-60% From FOOD... If Booze is the Business with some "bar Food", its a Bar...Leave the Gun in Car.
I go out and play pool at a Pub, that has a Bar area, but is a Sit down Restaurant. They Market the place as a Restaurant/Pub... That is Legal. Going to "Corner Bar" and Sitting at the Bar and having three Scotches in an Hour is a Mess, and Leave the Gun home.
My Experience ..Worth all of 2 Cents... Spend it Wisely. God Bless, Stay Safe, Captain.

Glock, I appreciate your "real world" take. Having said that...
You hear do not use re loads for self defense because "it will be used against you" ( not necessarily true). Hmmm "why did you shoot him 6 times?" (he he I know but some say that that could be excessive)
My point is that I don't need to give anyone (idiot prosecutor or ambulance chaser or anti gunner in the jury) any extra excuse to punish me if I had to defend myself or anyone else with a fire arm.
Carry all the time = don't drink. Out for a dinner and a drink or two = not carrying.
 

Wow,I had to read some of these post 2x just to be sure what I read!
There is No Way ANYONE should Drink & Drive "OR" Drink while Carrying a Weapon on you or locked in your car! I don't care if its in your car locked up! You could still mistake some action has a Threat! Go get your weapon and shoot some one! Its always the Drinker who THINKS HES OK & HE / SHES NOT,BUTACTUALLY DRUNKER THAN A SKUNK!
Then once again were trying to defend our rights to Own & Carry!:mad:
 
Why Would You Have a Difference in Alcohol Limit or legal amount in your blood system to Drive a Car and and a different limit to Carry a firearm? So in that thinking, its OK to get behind the wheel with one or two drinks in you and drive your family SAFELY around or get on the highway... That's Legal. You have unimpaired Judgement ....but same breath you say, NOT OK to carry a gun to protect your family with one or two drinks? I don't get it... Your Judgement is fine to drive a 5000lb vehicle on the street... But somehow after two beers you can not make a judgement to shoot or not if someone is attacking you?
There are So many more Auto Accidents and a car is a deadly weapon just like a firearm... So why are people posting DONT Drink (under the limit) and Carry a firearm under any circumstance, ... BUT its OK to Drive a Car with two drinks?

Believe me, I'm not advocating drinking and driving or carrying... I Do not drink anymore for many many years..
 
Our CHL instructor said if you have one beer ... do not carry. Lock the gun away and then drink. In Texas, if you are pulled over and the LEO even suspects you are drinking, he can pull your gun on the spot.

ken
 
If you're serious about carrying and serious about drinking, you should give one up. ME, the latter, been that way for years.

ALWAYS IN TWO ROUND BURSTS
 
You guys can argue all the technical limits you want. Whether for driving or for carrying.
I don't want to leave it up to a jury if I had to protect myself, that they were paying attention to the details of drinking limits that determine if the average person's judgement was impaired. I think it's more about the jury's perception layed out by the prosecutor or defense.
This is not a hard concept to grasp. You can argue the fine points all you want, but in REAL life it's the perception. No need to cloud the issue in a self defense case with testimony that you only had one drink as opposed to you had no alcohol at all!

 
I find it even more astounding that people still support having a couple drinks while carrying, right after the incident in Frickers.

For me, if I have 1 drink, I don't drive for 1hr. This is what my dad taught me as I grew up, and follow it to this day. 2 drinks = 2hrs. I'm sort of a light weight because I don't drink often, but that one drink does have an effect, and even though you may not feel anything, it's still impairing you.

I don't really quite get this argument. For one thing, that .02 limit was not set up so you can enjoy that 1/2 a beer. That limit is to prevent CCW holders from getting into trouble with the law, if they use mouthwash, and somehow were unlucky enough to get breathalyzed within the 15-30min after using it. Same reason why many states have legal BAC limits for drivers under 21.

If you want to drink, don't carry, and if you're carrying, don't drink.
 
This was my answer from the Michigan State Police.

The answers to both of your questions are found in MCL 28.425k and I have included a link to that section below:
Michigan Legislature - Section 28.425k


1) MCL 28.425k provides, in part:
"An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section."

The standard applies to any CPL holder carrying a pistol, not just driving with a pistol.

2) An individual carrying a concealed pistol with any BAC is subject to immediate seizure of their pistol and the following penalties:

BAC of .02 - .07 = State civil infraction, $100 fine, and up to 1-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .08 - .09 = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and up to 3-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .10 or more = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and permanent CCW license revocation.


Best Regards,
Sgt H ...
Michigan State Police

Also - A local police detective told me said that this is basisally the same standard for open carry, and that the state law applies regardless if you are driving, walking, hunting, etc. in a public area

Wow! That's Michigan State law.

alcohol and gun mix that's no good! Keep clean and concealed (or open) without alcohol. :biggrin:
 
I applied for my CCW. permit in may, 2007. The mental health dept. will not sign off on it until I pay them $118. for a substance abuse evaluation. I made the mistake of telling them that I drank beer every day, after work, at home; and that as a young man I had smoked pot. I am not going to pay thousands of dollars for a permit.There is no way they are going to say I do not need 30 or 40 of their therapy sessions at $118. each.
It was over 15 years ago that I told them I drank. To this day I have never been in legal trouble over alcohol. No DWI's Nothing! I have never even missed one day of work.
I was betrayed by my Therapist! What ever you tell them is not Private! Just the fact that you sought out help from a mental health provider will label you as Crazy! That is a Stigma that will follow you the rest of your life!
The 2nd, 5th, and 14th amendments don't mean a thing once you are stigmatized as Crazy!
If you drink don't admit it to your doctor, and if you have a CCW. permit; do not carry your weapon if you are going to have any alcohol what so ever!
 
Per the Michigan state regs, what does .02 alcohol level in a 200# male equate to? If it is one beer or one glass of wine--case closed--you are in trouble if god forbid your firearm ends up being discharged. As said in a previous post, the criminal and civil consequences having violated the law are not worth it. The issue of being able to CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol is another funny subject--our great and nanny government has decided that we are too stupid to obey the law when it comes to alcohol and CC so they eliminate this temptation that we are too weak and retarded to understand.
 
Michigan Clarified.

Per the Michigan state regs, what does .02 alcohol level in a 200# male equate to? If it is one beer or one glass of wine--case closed--you are in trouble if god forbid your firearm ends up being discharged. As said in a previous post, the criminal and civil consequences having violated the law are not worth it. The issue of being able to CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol is another funny subject--our great and nanny government has decided that we are too stupid to obey the law when it comes to alcohol and CC so they eliminate this temptation that we are too weak and retarded to understand.

I'm a Michigan resident and I carry legal.

The law doesnt care if I'm in a restaurant unless i'm consuming. Cannot be a bar/tavern.

In addition to the above, the MI law doesnt care where I am in PUBLIC [including gun free zones, MI law CCW law doesnt apply to OC carry, VERY COMPLICATED], if I have a BAC .02 and they test me positive for that amount I'm finished there and then. I DONT HAVE TO HAVE DISCHARGED MY WEAPON. It doesnt matter if I'm driving, walking or sitting in a park. Busted.

So MI is very friendly to dinning out as long as you dont fall into temptation and "sip" one. We are told that if we lock up in the parking lot and wait for "one beer" to wear off, then go ahead, but its the cop who can change all that when you drive away.

Bottom line is MI has good law but you better not drink here and be caught in public "packing" with any BAC. You will be in more trouble than you wanted for to drink a beer .

BTW. I like Canadian Beers.
 
I'm a Michigan resident and I carry legal.

The law doesnt care if I'm in a restaurant unless i'm consuming. Cannot be a bar/tavern.

In addition to the above, the MI law doesnt care where I am in PUBLIC [including gun free zones, MI law CCW law doesnt apply to OC carry, VERY COMPLICATED], if I have a BAC .02 and they test me positive for that amount I'm finished there and then. I DONT HAVE TO HAVE DISCHARGED MY WEAPON. It doesnt matter if I'm driving, walking or sitting in a park. Busted.

So MI is very friendly to dinning out as long as you dont fall into temptation and "sip" one. We are told that if we lock up in the parking lot and wait for "one beer" to wear off, then go ahead, but its the cop who can change all that when you drive away.

Bottom line is MI has good law but you better not drink here and be caught in public "packing" with any BAC. You will be in more trouble than you wanted for to drink a beer .

BTW. I like Canadian Beers.

Michigan carry laws are not the best, BUT,,,, ARE so far superior to some of the laws the Nor-easters have to contend with. I quit drinking a long time ago, so no big deal ... But it is not wise to drink and drive, There's not any differance... Put the sidearm in the safe and enjoy your beer.. or your wobblypop... (ccnginger)
 
Hey ricbak, good to hear from a fellow MIgander. Yes our CCW laws are good and getting better all the time. Im safe so I will "crack" one as you suggested. Oh NO! I can feel the flames coming already.:pleasantry:
 
Hey micpl: Can you or anyone in forumland tell me whether one beer for a 200# guy during a 1-2 hour meal will register .02? I agree with you that if you register .02 after a beerl, you will and should be busted, not to mention the legal and civil consequences if you are at or over that limit and god forbid you actually use your firearm and injure or kill someone. As far as bars and taverns---most serve food at sit-down tables---even restaurants have bars and even tavern-like areas--distinguishing the difference gets to be a difficult if not impossiblel; sure some bars are just alcohol guzzling places but the majority, these days, are not like that--at least where I live.At least MI is willing to address this whole issue with some degree of libertarian sanity and for that I applaud them.
 
Hey micpl: Can you or anyone in forumland tell me whether one beer for a 200# guy during a 1-2 hour meal will register .02? I agree with you that if you register .02 after a beerl, you will and should be busted, not to mention the legal and civil consequences if you are at or over that limit and god forbid you actually use your firearm and injure or kill someone. As far as bars and taverns---most serve food at sit-down tables---even restaurants have bars and even tavern-like areas--distinguishing the difference gets to be a difficult if not impossiblel; sure some bars are just alcohol guzzling places but the majority, these days, are not like that--at least where I live.At least MI is willing to address this whole issue with some degree of libertarian sanity and for that I applaud them.

Good morning kelcarry,

Nobody I know of has/can answer your question about BAC, it has to remain I think a subjective question and non answerable. So many factors and variables would influence the outcome and the instrument might register in error. At .02 there is not room for such, is there? Besides if a cop in MI even suspects you been drinking he/she can seize a CPL,s weapon without a BAC test. By law though as a MI CPL you agree ahead of time when you accept your permit to take such test. Even if you register under .02 the officer is required to inform the gunboard that you were found to have BAC. Your still in trouble no matter how you register. .02 is not a get out of jail free card. Personally I think it should be and an officer who is savy will just ask and listen then make a judgment without destroying a CPL,s chances, but I wouldnt want to bet on it. It is the same way in MI on DUI, your life is forever changed for the worse. Huge fines and privlages taken away and even jail of course.

All in all the numbers matter when you are over the limit and even under the limit too. In MI if you have any BAC during any stop in public you will be in trouble in some way if you are driving or you CCW. The gun board in my County will draw and quarter someone with glee. If I had a prior evenings indulgence and I leave my residence the next morning my gun stays home. Yes I feel fine and ate breakfast and drank coffee and my eyes are white and not glassed over etc. No problem right?. WRONG. Like you I dont know what would register even the morning after and I wont trust a cop or let alone an instrument to lean in my favor. In MI they basicly have a zero tolerance law, I dont care what that .02 limit states. Those of us who abide the law and are responsible would be thrown under the bus as soon or quicker than the irresponsible.

I cant say it plain enough. In MI dont get caught in public CCW with ANY BAC.
 
I fully support "no carry under the influence" just as I do DUI laws. Everyone thinks they know their limit, however, many get caught DUI or even cause accidents. Judgment and reflexes become impaired after just a few drinks. This being said, I believe carrying inside a bar should be allowed as long as you're the "designated" carrier or driver and not drinking.
 
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Kennesaw

I fully support "no carry under the influence" just as I do DUI laws. Everyone thinks they know their limit, however, many get caught DUI or even cause accidents. Judgment and reflexes become impaired after just a few drinks. This being said, I believe carrying inside a bar should be allowed as long as you're the "designated" carrier or driver and not drinking.

Hey ronwill, I have a question for you. Sometime back in the 70's I visited Kennesaw and we went to a bar with some local relatives. Patrons were standing at the bar drinking OC. It was quite a sight. I know Georgia was way out front ahead of the nation in CCW laws etc. Are things different now? How?
 
Hey ronwill, I have a question for you. Sometime back in the 70's I visited Kennesaw and we went to a bar with some local relatives. Patrons were standing at the bar drinking OC. It was quite a sight. I know Georgia was way out front ahead of the nation in CCW laws etc. Are things different now? How?

Yeah things have changed considerably. The infamous "public gatherings" clause came into affect and, until recently, it was illegal to carry anywhere alcohol was served. Now you can carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol but you still can't carry into any establishment that gets most of it's proceeds from alcohol sales. All in all Georgia still ranks fairly high as a gun friendly state when compared to some others. A grass roots organization (GeorgiaCarry.org) formed a couple of years ago and is at the forefront of great changes in the laws.
 
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