Open Carry A Good Idea Or Bad?

[NFTATraining]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this subject. To be honest I don't have a solid opinion on wether I think it's a good or bad thing. I mean open and concealed have their both good and bad points.

Carrying Concealed:
Advantage: Tactically speaking, I think the element of surprise is a great thing. If someone doesn't know you have a firearm, then they can't tactically adjust them selves for that. If they were to try and rob you and you pull a firearm they didn't know about, that surprises most criminals, not all, but most. Something they were not expecting has the potential to rattle cages. Plus when you are out in public I think people are less likely to be jumpy or nervous if they don't see a firearm on your side and no badge on your shirt. Again, not all people would respond that way I wouldn't think, but some might.

Disadvantage: To me, clearing the holster in a fight or flight with out snag or fowl up on clothing. This can be delt with by training, no doubt and I am a firm believer in training, BUT I guess it could happen in a really f'd up situation. Plus, even with the technology break throughs in holsters, you are kind of limited to the size if you want to wear it comfortably, unless you have a man purse, not a huge fan drawing from one of those, but you could put a bigger firearm in it.

Open Carry:
Advantages: I do think you could clear holster alot faster, with out the potential of snags or fowl ups. You could carry just about any firearm you wanted too. Maybe the intimidation factor is better.

Disadvantes: I am a believer in the surprise element. With the type of drug abuse that goes on today, I just think they would see you wearing a firearm and plan on how to get it from you, instead of avoiding you. Sure, there are tons of holster retention tactics, don't get me wrong, but will those do you good if you are getting attacked by 2-3 people that are jacked up on meth, especially when you don't see it coming AND they know you have a firearm? Is that an unlikely situation? Yes. But aren't most situations unlikely to the person they happen to?

I have thought about this in length and I guess there is no right or wrong, just depends on the situation. Hopefully, for all innocent citizens and myself there will never BE a situation to try the theory.

-Brian Woods

 

[trophyhunter]

Brian, I do agree with your suggestions on both open and concealed. But my motto is and will always be out of sight, out of mind. Good post on your part

 

[SGB]

Been my experience that folks that rely on being tactical have no real concept of what tactical is. If you think that having a concealed firearm gives you an advantage when confronted by an armed antagonist you're already behind the 8 ball as your situational awareness has already failed. Nothing tactical about drawing against a gun in hand.

Open and Concealed both have advantages and disadvantages, neither is superior to the other in all situations. Just my .02

 

[Axeanda45]

Surprise is NOT A DEFENSIVE TACTIC!!!!!!!

 

[nogods]

I prefer open carry. I want to be able to make a personal assessment of my safety. I can't do that when I don't know what yahoos are carrying. Plus, if an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime, then open carry is the most effective way of achieving that goal.

The modern day justification for concealed carry is to appease the anti-gun people who would otherwise stain their pants if they saw lots of people with guns.

 

[Horkos]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this subject. To be honest I don't have a solid opinion on wether I think it's a good or bad thing. I mean open and concealed have their both good and bad points.

Carrying Concealed:
Advantage: Tactically speaking, I think the element of surprise is a great thing. If someone doesn't know you have a firearm, then they can't tactically adjust them selves for that. If they were to try and rob you and you pull a firearm they didn't know about, that surprises most criminals, not all, but most. Something they were not expecting has the potential to rattle cages. Plus when you are out in public I think people are less likely to be jumpy or nervous if they don't see a firearm on your side and no badge on your shirt. Again, not all people would respond that way I wouldn't think, but some might.

Disadvantage: To me, clearing the holster in a fight or flight with out snag or fowl up on clothing. This can be delt with by training, no doubt and I am a firm believer in training, BUT I guess it could happen in a really f'd up situation. Plus, even with the technology break throughs in holsters, you are kind of limited to the size if you want to wear it comfortably, unless you have a man purse, not a huge fan drawing from one of those, but you could put a bigger firearm in it.

Open Carry:
Advantages: I do think you could clear holster alot faster, with out the potential of snags or fowl ups. You could carry just about any firearm you wanted too. Maybe the intimidation factor is better.

Disadvantes: I am a believer in the surprise element. With the type of drug abuse that goes on today, I just think they would see you wearing a firearm and plan on how to get it from you, instead of avoiding you. Sure, there are tons of holster retention tactics, don't get me wrong, but will those do you good if you are getting attacked by 2-3 people that are jacked up on meth, especially when you don't see it coming AND they know you have a firearm? Is that an unlikely situation? Yes. But aren't most situations unlikely to the person they happen to?

I have thought about this in length and I guess there is no right or wrong, just depends on the situation. Hopefully, for all innocent citizens and myself there will never BE a situation to try the theory.

-Brian Woods

Good thread. Good food for thought. Personaly I prefer both at the same time and feel it should be my decision to choose as to which, at any given time, is most appropriate.

 

[FTG-05]

Personally, I think the CC/surprise element is more than balanced out by the OC/prevention element.

In other words, drawing CC against something that is already happening, i.e. a bad guy's gun is already out, is less of an advantage in that I believe an OC firearm will more than likely prevent the bad guy from trying in the first place. If criminals wanted to work hard, they'd go get a job rather than knowingly get into a gun fight with an armed citizen.

Besides, one other major advantage of OCing, especially down here in the +95/+90 heat/humidity of the deep south, is ease of carrying.

My .02.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What's going on here? Rational, thought out discussion not overly clouded with theories backed only by personal beliefs and prejudices?!? No comments about cowboys and the wild west yet?

Very good posts so far!

Some more facts about the deterrent value of firearms can be found on printed page 30-31 (electronic pages 37-38) of this document:

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Deterrence is the presentation of the ability to create such grave consequences for an action that the actor determines that the potential consequences of an action far outweigh the potential benefits of an action, therefore causing the actor to decide to not act.

As long as we maintain a society where over 99% of the general population is not visibly armed, and there are relatively easy non-violent ways for criminals to obtain firearms, there is absolutely no reason for a criminal to pick the person that is known to be armed as a target.

The argument about the nut job high on crack attacking you and it's easier for them to snatch an open carried gun has to be weighed against the fact that the same nut job is just as likely to attack anyone, and I believe that ready and easy access to the gun by the owner for defensive purposes is of more benefit than surprises the perpetrator, who has little concept of what is really happening anyway due to their mental illness or drug use.

 

[localgirl]

I like having both options, depending on circumstances.

In public, like at work or out shopping, I prefer no one knows I am armed. I want to blend in as much as possible, and have the slight advantage if I am in a sticky situation. In these scenarios, I see myself slowly and quietly drawing--a disadvantage in some situations.

In the woods, on trails, hiking, I like to carry open. I want my gun where I can get to it quickly. I'm more afraid of bears than burglars, plus where I live people are more likely to behave badly in secluded places. In this case my firearm can serve as a deterrent.

Which is also why I was very close to strapping on my tactical holster at home. I currently have some very troublesome neighbors who think they are some sort of bad-asses. I see nothing wrong with me open carrying while doing yard work and playing with my dog. It doesn't say "I'm going to shoot you," it says "Please respect my space and my person."

 

[PaxMentis]

For me, I prefer CC...though I am not a fanatic about it and am not one of those who feel I have "failed" somehow if my gun becomes visible...I have even been known to take off my cover garment in the park or at the golf course on a hot day...

I CC merely because I have fought the battles that I want to fight and will leave the "education of the masses" to those who feel they want to accomplish something...and they have my respect for doing so.

 

[SFC]

Arizona has always been an open carry state, and now a coneal carry state

Here in Ariazona we have the best of both conceal and open carry. Allows everyone that lives here or visits just to know all carry a firearm open or conceal.

IMHO I like having a concealed weapon as I do not want people to know just what I have whether it be a 32 auto or a 44 mag. I stongly believe why Governer Brewer past the no permit to carry a concealed firearm is for two reasons under one title SB 1070, By getting the concealed carry law without a permit to pass she rallied the SB 1070 taking all in concern off the conceal carry without a permit. Second, she knew obievil our fearless leader would not lend a hand towards backing SB 1070 and (my words) felt the need for allowing every citizen in Arizona to be prepared. There is one more reason, Governer Brewer is a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment.

I like the option to carry any which way I can, because the Second Amendment says I have that right. I feel every person who is a citizen in the USA should have these rights.

 

[NFTATraining]

Awesome replys, awesome opinions. I am a huge supporter that it should be our choice as American Citizens defined in the 2nd AMDMT. I meant to add that in my original post. I could see doing either for what ever the situation is, someone mentioned open carry while hiking, defintaley agree with doing the same while in the outdoors. I just hope I don't come across a meth addicted dear or something, I don't need to be scoped out and jumped by him and 4 of his friends. lol

 

[Kingfisher42223]

They are both good and serve a good purpose... My own opinion is it is better to conceal... When open carrying, if an attacker or a robber is determined to continue then he will go for you first... If he is armed himself then you're in real trouble... The second issue I have with open carry is the image... I'm not saying everyone is doing it for the image, but I know a certain number of people who carry it openly to get the shocked and nervous looks from people... Makes them feel more tough... I know one guy who walks an S&W500 just for that purpose (No need to comment on all the reasons that is stupid)... My concern is the image it presents to the anti-gunners around the State... It encourages their beliefs, and can provoke them to write the States Congressmen about all these crazy right-wingers walking around like its the wild west... You can still carry holstered, and stay concealed with appropriate clothing... and there's nothing wrong with draping your t-shirt over you're holstered weapon (though this often leaves a pretty good print with larger framed weapons)... Open carry is better if you want a faster draw, and I'm not completely against it, but in my opinion its just not the best thing to do when you're walking into your gas station or Wal Mart... Drawing attention to yourself is not the best thing to do when carrying in the first place...

 

[Axeanda45]

They are both good and serve a good purpose... My own opinion is it is better to conceal... When open carrying, if an attacker or a robber is determined to continue then he will go for you first...Instead of parroting crap you have heard other ignorant people spouting... how about some ACTUAL FACTS that PROVE this will happen/HAS happened.... If he is armed himself then you're in real trouble... The second issue I have with open carry is the image... I'm not saying everyone is doing it for the image, but I know a certain number of people who carry it openly to get the shocked and nervous looks from people... Makes them feel more tough... I know one guy who walks an S&W500 just for that purpose (No need to comment on all the reasons that is stupid)... My concern is the image it presents to the anti-gunners around the State... It encourages their beliefs, and can provoke them to write the States Congressmen about all these crazy right-wingers walking around like its the wild west... You can still carry holstered, and stay concealed with appropriate clothing... and there's nothing wrong with draping your t-shirt over you're holstered weapon (though this often leaves a pretty good print with larger framed weapons)... Open carry is better if you want a faster draw, and I'm not completely against it, but in my opinion its just not the best thing to do when you're walking into your gas station or Wal Mart... Drawing attention to yourself is not the best thing to do when carrying in the first place...

Here is a little advice: stop projecting YOUR "feelings" onto what others do to try to explain why they are doing it. If you want to know why someone open carries (as an example) ASK THEM, dont just assume things. The way I exercise MY RIGHTS is none of your or anyone elses business as long as I am not infringing upon your or their "rights".... Another hint: You do NOT have the right not to be offended....... You do, however, have the right to state your opinion, which you did, and what you have just read is mine (although mine had a few more actual facts in it, and much less "feelings").

 

[NavyLCDR]

The second issue I have with open carry is the image... I'm not saying everyone is doing it for the image, but I know a certain number of people who carry it openly to get the shocked and nervous looks from people...

Actually, one of the SECONDARY reasons that I open carry (the primary reason being deterrence) is to project an image. John Q. Public normally sees one image of firearms....the image presented to them on television by the anti-gun groups, the anti-gun media and ridiculous images in movies. I like to present an alternate image to John Q. Public that it is acceptable and normal for a normal American to carry a gun for self protection in normal everyday American life doing normal things that normal Americans do.

but I know a certain number of people who carry it openly to get the shocked and nervous looks from people...Makes them feel more tough...

I refuse to take responsibility for something that is caused by the anti-gun groups and anti-gun media.

It's amazing how many people, including "pro gun" people will get their panties in a wad over this....does this really look like someone trying to be a "tough guy"? Why would you have "concern is the image it presents to the anti-gunners around the State..." and why would you think this "encourages their beliefs, and can provoke them to write the States Congressmen about all these crazy right-wingers walking around like its the wild west...":

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I rather think that I look a person who loves his family and is willing to protect them from criminal harm.

 

[NavyLCDR]

in my opinion its just not the best thing to do when you're walking into your gas station or Wal Mart...

I know one person who would disagree with you:
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Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here's another one....

This guy is obviously open carrying to present an image as well:

 

[BC1]

Surprise is NOT A DEFENSIVE TACTIC!!!!!!!

Surprise is ABSOLUTELY a defensive tactic. It has been through centuries of militrary conflict. It is taught at the United States Military Academy. Surpise puts your antagonist behind the reactionary curve. We teach SSS (stealth, surprise, skill) as a tactic in any confrontation, gun or not. In fact surprise is the most important element in knife defense and improvisd weapons classes.

As taught in military strategy...

In order to win, we should operate at a faster tempo or rhythm than our adversaries--or, better yet, get inside [the] adversary's Observation-Orientation-Decision-Action time cycle or loop (OODA Loop). Such activity will make us appear ambiguous (unpredictable) thereby generate surprise, confusion and disorder among our adversaries--since our adversaries will be unable to generate mental images or pictures that agree with the menacing as well as faster transient rhythm or patterns they are competing against.

The key is to obscure your intentions and make them unpredictable to your opponent while you simultaneously clarify his intentions. That is, operate at a faster tempo to generate rapidly changing conditions that inhibit your opponent from adapting or reacting to those changes and that suppress or destroy his awareness. Thus, a hodgepodge of confusion and disorder occur to cause him to over- or under-react to conditions or activities that appear to be surprising, uncertain, ambiguous, or incomprehensible.

Getting "inside" the cycle—short-circuiting the opponent's thinking processes—produces opportunities for the opponent to react inappropriately. It places the opponent behind the reactionary curve and that's a huge advantage.
​

How you choose to fight is your own decision and should not be altered by how another person feels. How you fight should be based in proven and accepted sound tactical principals. These principals don't come naturally and they're not found by reading magazines. They are established through advanced training.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Surprise is ABSOLUTELY a defensive tactic. It has been through centuries of militrary conflict. It is taught at the United States Military Academy. Surpise puts your antagonist behind the reactionary curve. We teach SSS (stealth, surprise, skill) as a tactic in any confrontation, gun or not.

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The prevention from action by fear of the consequences. Deterrence is a state of mind brought about by the existence of a credible threat of unacceptable counteraction.

A concealed firearm deters nothing. A concealed firearm causes no fear of consequences. A concealed firearm provides no credible threat of unacceptable counteraction.

Surprise is a tactic used to make an attack or a counterattack more effective. The key word being attack.

It is better to deter the enemy from attacking you in the first place, rather than to trust that your defenses are capable of successful elimination of the enemy after the attack has begun. There is less loss to the defending party if the attack is deterred rather than defended against.

 

[Axeanda45]

Surprise is ABSOLUTELY NOT a defensive tactic. It has NOT been through centuries of militrary conflict. It is NOT taught at the United States Military Academy. Surpise puts your antagonist behind the reactionary curve. Too late dude, you are ALREADY BEING ROBBED, YOU are the one that was behind in the reactionary curve...and LOST!

There, fixed it for you so it actually lines up with reality....



Next time, you might want to consider what the actual context is, and what this forum is about....... It is NOT a military strategy or war fighting discussion, This is a place where citizens who choose to be armed come to learn about conceal/open carry from each other, not where they come to learn how to fight wars with armies...... the tactics are QUITE different in almost all cases.....