Onondaga County pistol license upgrade to Full Carry APPROVED!

[jeffx]

Apparently it IS possible to get a full CARRY license in Onondaga County

I submitted a new "proper cause" form (along with copies of a stack of training certificates attached) to the Pistol License Office last week, Judge Aloi promptly approved it, and I picked up my new license Friday.

The pistol permit office did say that it is somewhat rare to get approved for full CARRY and that Judge Aloi is probably more likely to approve it than the other 2 current Judges, but that he just doesn't approve them "willy nilly."

So if you are stuck in Onondaga County with a Sportsman or Target permit, there is hope.

 

[shadowhawk176]

What courses did they accept/recognize?

It's encouraging to see that there is a way to get a Carry in Onondaga County. When you say "copies of a stack of training certificates ", what courses did you take (and how do we sign up) and were these all taken as a civilian (or as a LEO, MIL)? Did you get any feedback from the folks at the pistol licensing office in terms of which courses they recognized, or which ones they didn't?

 

[jeffx]

Onondaga County doesn't officially accept any training or reasons for proper cause, it's all a guessing game and trial and error.

As a civilian, I took the NRA Basic Pistol, Defensive Pistol Skills 101 from Rochester Personal Defense, Combative Pistol 1/2 from MDTS Training and a couple of skills classes from SIG Arms Academy.

Rochester Personal Defense
SMALL ARMS & PRACTICAL COMBATIVES TRAINING
Link Removed

 

[phrozen4905]

Apparently it IS possible to get a full CARRY license in Onondaga County

I submitted a new "proper cause" form (along with copies of a stack of training certificates attached) to the Pistol License Office last week, Judge Aloi promptly approved it, and I picked up my new license Friday.

The pistol permit office did say that it is somewhat rare to get approved for full CARRY and that Judge Aloi is probably more likely to approve it than the other 2 current Judges, but that he just doesn't approve them "willy nilly."

So if you are stuck in Onondaga County with a Sportsman or Target permit, there is hope.

what reasons did you list on the new "proper cause" form?

 

[Sights on Target]

Congrats! It is good to hear. I too would like to know what "proper cause" you used.

 

[jeffx]

Here is a good suggested outline someone posted over on Glock Talk and I used a very similar format:

A little late but, here's 'one' sample outline for you.

Write a well thought out letter to the judge answering each question he may ask.

It doesn't have to be more than one page. Check spelling and grammar closely. Write it, then think about it for a few days. Then reread what you wrote.

If you know of additional questions the judge has asked other applicants, answer those questions also.

i.e.

The Honorable Judge xxxx xxxx

Dear Judge xxxx

My name is John Xxxxx. I have resided in Xxxxxxx County since xxxx.

I write in regards to my New York State Pistol License #xxxxxxx issued by Xxxxxxxx County in xxxx.

1. Tell him who you are
2. What is your experience/training
3. Do you have prior experience carrying - (do you carry 'legally' in other states etc.)
4. Do you understand the law
5. Will you obey the law
6. Do you understand the (tremendous) responsibility
7. What are some of the reasons you want to carry - (List some activities)
8. How do/will you protect your firearm from theft out of your vehicle - (There may be times you have to leave it in the vehicle, even if you think not, answer this question)
....One answer is something like this: In Car Gun Safe
9. How do you protect your firearm from theft out of your home.

I respectfully request that my Pistol Permit be amended to remove the (Sportsman etc.) restriction.

Thank you for considering this request.

PM me and I will send you a de-personalized copy of what I actually wrote.

 

[das1997]

I am going in for my interview at the end of july. Trying to get my sportsman for now.

 

[MJPCarey]

Onondaga CCW

I have twice tried to get my carry conceal in Onondaga County, I have attached my military cert's, Rochester Personnel Defense Certs and membership to different clubs plus additional references that indicate I carry cash for late night bank deposits and have been turned down twice from Judge Brunetti. It is really a shame that the County Leg has tied the courts hands in this regard. Surrounding counties allow their folks to carry and there is no issue. Here in Onondaga in order to carry concealed you either had to get a license twenty years ago or be part of one of the gangs in Syracuse and surrounding areas.

 

[nogods]

I have twice tried to get my carry conceal in Onondaga County, I have attached my military cert's, Rochester Personnel Defense Certs and membership to different clubs plus additional references that indicate I carry cash for late night bank deposits and have been turned down twice from Judge Brunetti. It is really a shame that the County Leg has tied the courts hands in this regard. Surrounding counties allow their folks to carry and there is no issue. Here in Onondaga in order to carry concealed you either had to get a license twenty years ago or be part of one of the gangs in Syracuse and surrounding areas.

My brother has an unrestricted from Onondaga County - but he got it about 30 years ago.

The situation in Onondaga County, like that in Eire county, is why i think we need to take a more pragmatic approach to our second amendment rights.

We can scream and yell that we should be able to carry unrestricted withour any limitations until we all turn blue die.

Instead we should be working for statewide gun control law that standardizes the right to carry (maybe at first we have to carve out an exception for cities lager than 500,000 to exclude NYC from the mix.)

Something along the lines of:

1. Everyone is entitled to a permit for home defense/target practice unless the State can show cause why they should not have a firearm for the following reasons: [we list those reason - the list is part of the political process, tempered by constitutional considerations.]

2. Everyone who takes [list required courses] is entitled to an unrestricted carry unless the State can show cause why they should not have an unrestricted right to carry a firearm for the following reasons: [we list those reason - more restrictive than the home defense course.]

Oh I know such a proposal will attract the ire of the "shall not be infringed" crowd.

But they will all die screaming "shall not be infringed" while the rest of us work toward effectuating the right to carry in the real world.

 

[jeffx]

I have twice tried to get my carry conceal in Onondaga County, I have attached my military cert's, Rochester Personnel Defense Certs and membership to different clubs plus additional references that indicate I carry cash for late night bank deposits and have been turned down twice from Judge Brunetti.

Have you tried again recently? I personally know of 2 other people that had there restrictions lifted last year and I'm pretty sure one of them had Brunetti as their approving judge, so things may be changing now.

 

[MJPCarey]

CCW in Oondaga

I tried to submit my request to Judge Aloi after reading the posts and was informed that if the judge that issued the license is still there he will review and make a decision. Mine was not issued by Aloi and the paper work I received back said it was based on the legislature. If you can get one go for it, I am just mystified why the surrounding Counties issue CCW and Onondaga does not. So much for the 2nd amendment rights, as I said before only gang bangers and would be gang bangers are allowed. The law enforcement agencies in his county is being whittled down as a cost savings measure and the judicial system is bogged down because of all the gang activity and the business and home owners are at risk but being law abiding folks there are not allowed to carry because some politician is afraid to stand up for the rights of it's citezens.

 

[Arborpro]

No ccw in Onondaga

How do you go about sending the judge a letter to have sportsman removed?

My permit was issued by Judge Mulroy in 93, I don't believe he's around anymore. so can I address my letter to Aloi. or is it a crap shoot on what judge you get?

Thanks
Arborpro

 

[MJPCarey]

Ccw

My last attempt was in August and received the response back in October 2010. Judge Brunetti quoted the an article written by the county leg and denied me, I have been in contact with several people who have said that out of the three judges Aloi is the one to go to, if Mulroy ok'd your license I would then write a letter as described in the posts and send it to him. I would not include any thing in the letter that might make it sound like you would use your weapon instead of calling the police, don't make the letter a need for self protection against someone you might have an order of protection against, my understanding is that would automatically disqualify you. Good luck.

 

[das1997]

S1863

Does anyone know if this is something we should be pushing or is this the normal once a year bill to get more votes from us gun peeps. It looks like this would make NY a shall issue state eliminating the PROPER CAUSE CLAUSE. I just came across this so I thought I would share. I am taking some classes this march at rochester personal defense and after a few classes I'm taking the unrestricted concealed upgrade class and then turn all those classes with my application to remove my sportsmans restriction. Has anyone tried this?

 

[dojoman]

When you guys got the letter from the judge the Granted your "carry and conceal w/o limitation", did you take it downtown to upgrade the card license? Or did they call you when the office got it?
I ask because I was granted my CC, but when I went downtown to upgrade they said they had to wait for the paperwork from the judge. So I'm confused as to when or how ill get my carry card upgraded.

 

[das1997]

I was granted a full carry by onondaga county. you definetly have to have a reason to follow the law. Just be honest. It worked for me. I have had my sportsman carry for one year and now i got my letter stated that the sheriff has my upgraded permit for pickup. It is possible!

 

[RochPersDef]

We have had lots of success with our Unrestricted Carry Permit Training course. Even in Onondaga County.

It just depends a lot on who you are (mature or younger) and how you can bolster your background really. Training and education will always sway them as they will see you are being a responsible owner and potential carrier

 

[das1997]

i concur with dave. I have already taken 3 classes from rochester personal defense and they are great. i am now planning on taking the upgrade class and a couple more even though i got my upgrade to full carry. You can never have enough training. Thanks Dave for the classes you offer!!

 

[RochPersDef]

Sweet! Hope to see you soon!

 

[MJPCarey]

das, I to have taken courses and have discussed the lack of CCW permits in Onondaga County with Dave and Chris Fry of MDTS, when I spoke to them they both agreed that it was Judge dependent on who would give you the CCW. If you had your permit approved by Aloi then you have a better chance to get CCW upgrade, if Walsh maybe, if approved by Brunetti then from what I have heard unless you know him you won't get it. I have submitted paperwork that show I take a minimuum of yearly courses for training, military cert's and affadavits from Sheriff's that vouch for both the need and my integrity and have been denied twice. Good luck and hope you get yours, I think it is a shame that my brother has one and he received it 30 years ago with out formal training and I who have military training, countless certs and affadavits and like I said have been denied, I guess judges 30 years ago were a little bit more friendly and believed in 2nd amendment rights.