online open carry petition


mrjim

New member
The problem I have with this petition is that Open Carry is not illegal in Massachusttes.

However, the "bedwetters" (I've heard that term recently here on the forums) will call the police if they spot a person with a gun. Recently there have been a couple of false positives that made into the news.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Mr. Jim,

You are correct. Open carry IS NOT ILLEGAL in Massachusetts. However - because the criteria for having and keeping your FID are so subjective...it is possible that your FID can be revoked should you decide to openly carry a firearm and frighten the "bedwetters" into calling the police.

And once that FID is revoked...there goes your firearms collection. All of it.

Therefore, we either need to revoke the "may issue" provisions of the FID card. Or we need to get legislation that AFFIRMS our right to openly bear arms, and RESTRICTS the ability of authorities to pull permits for the simple act of carrying openly.

So yes. I signed.
 

Rich_S

New member
Mr. Jim,

You are correct. Open carry IS NOT ILLEGAL in Massachusetts. However - because the criteria for having and keeping your FID are so subjective...it is possible that your FID can be revoked should you decide to openly carry a firearm and frighten the "bedwetters" into calling the police.

And once that FID is revoked...there goes your firearms collection. All of it.

Therefore, we either need to revoke the "may issue" provisions of the FID card. Or we need to get legislation that AFFIRMS our right to openly bear arms, and RESTRICTS the ability of authorities to pull permits for the simple act of carrying openly.

So yes. I signed.

FID cards are shall issue. You can sign all the petitions you want and you'll never stop people in Mass from calling the police when they see someone open carrying. Let's say OC would not be an issue for putting your LTC in jeapordy. Even still.....Why would you want the hassle of being stopped by the police because you have a gun? Carry concealed and go about your business.
 

jmorse

New member
I'll sign and do support open carry. I would still only carry concealed though. Really don't need the extra attention and knee jerk reactions.
 

ARV

New member
* Massachusetts is not a traditional open carry state, but it is not a crime for Class A License Holders to open carry. However, it is reported that some jurisdictions will use this as an excuse to revoke permits.

I dont like this part. If you read the part of MGL that deals with licenses, a LTC (License to Carry) A allows you to carry concealed, and makes no mention of open carry. Thus open carry is allowed. LTC B Prohibits carrying concealed. Yet it is a license to CARRY. Thus open carry is the only option that is allowed under that license.
 

Rich_S

New member
I dont like this part. If you read the part of MGL that deals with licenses, a LTC (License to Carry) A allows you to carry concealed, and makes no mention of open carry. Thus open carry is allowed. LTC B Prohibits carrying concealed. Yet it is a license to CARRY. Thus open carry is the only option that is allowed under that license.

Remember the whole may issue and suitability issues. If you open carry and cause a scene your chief will probably decide that you're no longer suitable and revoke your LTC. Also, the Mass chiefs of police association has instructed the chiefs not to issue the LTC B since it's too confusing. Only two towns (Canton and Rowley) are known to issue the LTC B right now.
 

ARV

New member
Remember the whole may issue and suitability issues. If you open carry and cause a scene your chief will probably decide that you're no longer suitable and revoke your LTC. Also, the Mass chiefs of police association has instructed the chiefs not to issue the LTC B since it's too confusing. Only two towns (Canton and Rowley) are known to issue the LTC B right now.

Yes, but in the end it is up to each individual chief. In essence, there are over 300 different possible outcomes.The Mass Chief's Assn is a guideline, and also says:
Additional conditions which should NOT be imposed by a licensing authority include but are not
limited to requirements to:
• obtain notarized reference letters;
• obtain a letter from a doctor;
• list the firearms owned or that the applicant intends to own;
• complete a special firearms training course (separate from state requirement);
• complete a state required Basic Firearms Safety (BFS) course only a particular PD;
• complete a state required BFS course only from a particular instructor;
• complete a qualification course that is not part of a state approved BFS course;
• join a sportsman’s or gun club.

There are still many towns that require doctors notes, membership in a club etc. Some refuse to issue to people under 25. Comm2A goes after some with lawsuits, but its a long slow process to drag them in line.

Link Removed

Also bear in mind that Chief in town A might think "Target and hunting" means one thing, and Chief in town B that your in might think it means another. There are no set guidelines or definitions as to what restrictions mean. I have even heard of one Chief issuing a LTC A with an "Open Carry" restriction. Go Figure.

Can someone add MGL, FID and LTC to that recent thread on abbreviations?

MGL: Mass General Law, FID: Firearms IDentification [Card], LTC: License To Carry

Don't forget CMR then.......

CMR: Code of Mass Regulations
 

Rich_S

New member
Yes, but in the end it is up to each individual chief. In essence, there are over 300 different possible outcomes.The Mass Chief's Assn is a guideline, and also says:

There are still many towns that require doctors notes, membership in a club etc. Some refuse to issue to people under 25. Comm2A goes after some with lawsuits, but its a long slow process to drag them in line.

Link Removed

Also bear in mind that Chief in town A might think "Target and hunting" means one thing, and Chief in town B that your in might think it means another. There are no set guidelines or definitions as to what restrictions mean. I have even heard of one Chief issuing a LTC A with an "Open Carry" restriction. Go Figure.



MGL: Mass General Law, FID: Firearms IDentification [Card], LTC: License To Carry



CMR: Code of Mass Regulations

Uh huh.....amd my town just became a red town right as my wife was about to apply! Is WTF on that list?
 

ARV

New member
Uh huh.....amd my town just became a red town right as my wife was about to apply! Is WTF on that list?

"red"...you spend any time on NES?

Mine is as green as green can be. When I first applied they told me to use "all lawful purposes" for a reason. LTC A first time no issue. Chief will be retiring the 1st of the year. Hope the new one is as good.
 

Rich_S

New member
"red"...you spend any time on NES?

Mine is as green as green can be. When I first applied they told me to use "all lawful purposes" for a reason. LTC A first time no issue. Chief will be retiring the 1st of the year. Hope the new one is as good.

I was a green member on NES but let that go. I got bored there and decided to try different boards like this one. The green/red thing isn't just NES. GOAL, Comm2A, and many instructors also use it. Good luck on the new chief. Green can turn to red overnight.
 

ARV

New member
I was a green member on NES but let that go. I got bored there and decided to try different boards like this one. The green/red thing isn't just NES. GOAL, Comm2A, and many instructors also use it. Good luck on the new chief. Green can turn to red overnight.

Ive only been there for the past year or so. I find enough there to keep be interested. I only asked because I have only ever seen red/green used consistently on NES so that's what pops to mind when I hear it. WRT the Chief, I think they want to hire from within. If it changed to a more restricted policy there would be strong opposition from the town.
 

Rich_S

New member
Ive only been there for the past year or so. I find enough there to keep be interested. I only asked because I have only ever seen red/green used consistently on NES so that's what pops to mind when I hear it. WRT the Chief, I think they want to hire from within. If it changed to a more restricted policy there would be strong opposition from the town.

Good....maybe you won't have to move then
 

snatale42

New member
Therefore, we either need to revoke the "may issue" provisions of the FID card. Or we need to get legislation that AFFIRMS our right to openly bear arms, and RESTRICTS the ability of authorities to pull permits for the simple act of carrying openly.

So yes. I signed.

FID's are SHALL ISSUE
LTC's are MAY ISSUE

FID's only apply to long guns and are unnecessary if you posses an LTC, as LTC overrides it.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
FID's are SHALL ISSUE
LTC's are MAY ISSUE

FID's only apply to long guns and are unnecessary if you posses an LTC, as LTC overrides it.

I don't know if you noticed...but someone already clarified this a bunch of posts ago. Obviously I typed FID when I meant LTC.

So it should have been "We need to either revoke the "may issue" provisions of the LTC, or we need to get legislation that affirms our right to openly bear arms, and restricts the ability of authorities to pull LTCs for the simple act of carrying openly."
 

snatale42

New member
Could mass open carry with class a ltc no restriction?Link Removed

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Yes, but you already knew that from the attachment in your post. The problem in MA is that people don't do it very often and the cops don't know the law. People in MA typically don't have the balls to stand up for their rights like they do in other states. It's been suggested to GOAL on multiple occasions to organize an Open Carry BBQ or dinner at a restaurant or something to that effect and it never happens. As long as people remain scared of pissing off their CLEO, then MA will never change. I blame GOAL for most of it. Their ONLY job is to make the Commonwealth better for gun owners, what have they really accomplished? Sorry GOAL, prove me wrong. Showing up at a town hall meeting and defeating an "idea" that was never a law doesn't cut it! I used to be a member and couldn't rationalize continuing to pay them. I even continued my membership when I moved out of state to keep helping (or so I though) until I realized how ineffective they were compared to other states pro-gun org's. Although I'm still in MA all the time, I live in VA now and was completely blown away by how much the org down here (VCDL) accomplishes, and believe me VA has plenty of anti's in it! Maybe even more than MA! The Northern part of the state makes MA look like a conservative state by comparison.... YA! It's THAT bad! Now we have an Anti Governor and he's already tried pulling crap and failed.
 

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