Oklahoma pharmacist sentenced to life


Doc Mustang

New member
We have discussed this case on several threads in the past. As has been pointed out, this pharmacist shot an unconcious man when there was no threat to his life. His actions during the shooting are also out of bounds. Once the assailants run and leave the store the threat is passed. He has no duty to pursue and aprehend the criminals who tried to rob him. Once the threat is passed HE turns and becomes the agressor.

If he had shot or killed one of the would be robbers while they were running away he would be guilty of assault at the least or murder if his attack (yes attack) resulted in death. Do you seriously believe that he could argue that he was in fear of his life from 2 boys fleeing the scene? I understand and have argued in the past that his attack could have been justified if he honestly believed that others lives were directly endangered by his assailants as they ran away. That is NOT what happened. He clearly went on offense, then appeared to calmly pick up a second gun and execute a defenseless human being who was not a threat to him. That puts it clearly in the realm of vengance killing, there is an element of premeditation, it could even be argued that because he had the guns in the first place he WANTED this to happen. He was only waiting for his victims to try to rob him.

We train for and carry a gun for SELF-DEFENSE. The moment he went on offense after successfully defending himself he was in the wrong. It is always wrong to be the one who initiates violence or force.

This does not even BEGIN to address his attempts to cover up or modify evidence and his false statements to Police. He exhibits classic signs of a sociopath. He received what he deserved and should not be pardoned. His actions endangered the lives of innocents on the street and he endangered the gun rights of everyone by providing an example of why "guns are bad".

I am not trying to get sympathy for the victims here, they received their due wages. I simply refuse to make a martyr of a man who endangered my right to defend myself and my family with a gun.
 

old curmudgeon

New member
Regardless of what we "know", court cases should be settled according to the law.

It matters not that we "know" the person on trial is guilty or innocent.

When we start handling cases according to what we "know", we open ourselves up to the fearful specter of the cop or DA putting us in prison because he "knows"....

If the law is wrong, change the law. But do not let what we "know" over ride the proper way to determine guilt or innocence.

The guy broke the laws of every state I am familiar with

Falsifying evidence, shooting a person who is totally incapacitated, doing so with deliberation......

If you think all of that is good, get the laws changed to allow it.

In the meantime, learn your state's laws and burn them into memory so you don't trap yourself.
 

localgirl

New member
Don't forget two important things: he actually leaves the area to retrieve another gun, thereby removing himself from danger, AND he returns to continue shooting the unconscious robber who NEVER HAD A WEAPON.
 

FN1910

New member
In my opinion, just like many others on here, the life sentence is excessive. However I don't know the details and lot of times a life sentence doesn't always mean that or an excessive long time so I will withhold complete judgement on that. Given all that I know including watching the videos of it I do not agree with those who want him exonerated. He did not do the correct, legal or moral thing and what he did was not justified in any way. You shoot to stop the threat and sometimes you are not sure the threat has been stopped so you give it a little extra. That wasn't the case here.

I always liked the story about the lady in the liquor store where two men came in to rob them. They shot and killed her husband and theatened to kill her 12 year old son if she didn't hand over the money. She pulled out a .357 and a 9mm from under the counter and took care of the BG's. When asked why she shot them 23 times she said "That's all the bullets I had".
 

OpenCarryYes

New member
Does any body know if the BG was dead before being shot with the second gun? I'm not suggesting that the victime was wong, he was way wrong. But if the BG was killed as part of the self defense then the extra shots dont amount to murder, do they?
 

wooddoctor

New member
No one can imagine the kind of adrenaline that must have went threw his body at the time these thugs stuck a cannon in his face. Shots were fired and he was in survival mode. It was three against one, what makes us so righteous after the fact to judge his actions when he was defending himself and others. That SOB wanted to KILL him. Had it not been on camera he would have been a Hero. You come home late at night and walk in on the perp and your wife has been raped and her throat slit wide open, I will assure you that that perp would take a dirt nap no matter what. I hope nobody here has to go thru what this man went thru.
 

olsparky

New member
@OpenCarryYes: They proved it was the shots to the abdomen that killed him, not the initial shot to the head.
 

FN1910

New member
Does any body know if the BG was dead before being shot with the second gun? I'm not suggesting that the victime was wong, he was way wrong. But if the BG was killed as part of the self defense then the extra shots dont amount to murder, do they?

The autopsy report said that the initial shot was not fatal and that he was still alive when shot with the other gun. There are conflicting reports on how "alive" he was and what he was and could have been doing. No one will ever really know.
 

Collector

New member
He overstepped commonn sence. If the BG possed no more threat, stop there. That being said, he had every write to protect himself. We don't know if these bad guys had tried to rob him or someone else before. Stress also plays a part. We don't know all the facts about the case but the video sealed his fate. I do believe 1st degree murder was a little harsh. I could see maybe manslaughter?
 

DHughes757

New member
I think it's crap that he got life but why another gun and 5 more rounds? To call 911 while maintaining guarded control of the premises is right on. To go overboard was harsh. Having said that, if the two thug losers hadn't tried robbing the store then it wouldn't have happened.
 

trophyhunter

New member
I feel for this guys family especially if he has children. As others have stated, Once the threat is stopped, its over, Continuing to shoot is wrong.But for whatever reason he deceided to continue shooting, only he will know.I hope it gets appieled and he gets a lesser sentience.
 

kelcarry

New member
Hey trophyhunter: My questions to you are "why?". Appealed for what reason? Even if it is appealed, what is a fair sentence for essentially murdering someone? This was first degree manslaughter if ever I heard it and it is worth at least 30 years--is that fair? Parole? Methinks that "less fortunate" individuals who do not even thinking about killing someone but manage to do so in some fit of rage etal sit in jail for equivalent time--"do the crime, do the time".
 

wooddoctor

New member
Hey trophyhunter: My questions to you are "why?". Appealed for what reason? Even if it is appealed, what is a fair sentence for essentially murdering someone? This was first degree manslaughter if ever I heard it and it is worth at least 30 years--is that fair? Parole? Methinks that "less fortunate" individuals who do not even thinking about killing someone but manage to do so in some fit of rage etal sit in jail for equivalent time--"do the crime, do the time".

Kel, the term "less fortunate" is a liberal term, but I see your point. Like I said, in this case he was in survival mode. At this point I think a pardon would be his only hope.
 

G50AE

Well-known member
No one can imagine the kind of adrenaline that must have went threw his body at the time these thugs stuck a cannon in his face. Shots were fired and he was in survival mode. It was three against one, what makes us so righteous after the fact to judge his actions when he was defending himself and others.

So I guess by that logic, who of us can rightly judge Rodney King for running from the cops and getting into a fight with them. You can't imagine what kind of adrenaline was running through his body, it was four or more against one, and he had been tazed and sprayed with mace. He was in survival mode. Can't we all just get along?
 

wooddoctor

New member
So I guess by that logic, who of us can rightly judge Rodney King for running from the cops and getting into a fight with them. You can't imagine what kind of adrenaline was running through his body, it was four or more against one, and he had been tazed and sprayed with mace. He was in survival mode. Can't we all just get along?

First of all I see is no logical reason to draw a parallel between the two stories. Rodney King simply acted stupidly and should have obeyed the laws and not resist arrest, his partners in crime did not resist and no incident. It looks like he just tripped and fell on his face.

Cops watched King, 46, commit "several traffic violations" while behind the wheel of a 1994 Mitsubishi before pulling him over on Tuesday afternoon, Moreno Valley, Calif., police said.
King was arrested and booked on suspicion of driving under the influence.
Cops said it wasn't clear whether King was drunk or high on drugs.

I guess he is just not teachable.
 

JJFlash

New member
Basically, his mistake was THAT IT WAS ON HIS OWN SECURITY CAMERA, for crying out loud. If you're gonna "take out the trash" (and I have no problem with it), uh...try not to record yourelf doing it.

That said, the evidence seems clear that he went way beyond "stopping the threat". Life sentence? I wouldn't have agreed to it.
 

G50AE

Well-known member
Basically, his mistake was THAT IT WAS ON HIS OWN SECURITY CAMERA, for crying out loud. If you're gonna "take out the trash" (and I have no problem with it), uh...try not to record yourelf doing it.

Especially if you are going to lie to the cops and fake evidence.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,437
Messages
623,687
Members
74,276
Latest member
ForwardUntilDawn
Top