Oklahoma pharmacist sentenced to life


gunnerbob

PEW Professional
I can see where he was convicted. He shot the guy 5 more times.... Maybe once more, but not 5.

He did the right thing defending himself and others in the store! But, then went overboard.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
The sentence is way out of proportion. The pharmacist was still s**tting himself in "fight or flight" mode. And maybe the downed robber wasn't completely unconscious and made a noise or movement not captured by the camera.

If ever there were mitigating circumstances...that could be argued here. I hope this guy gets a pardon or gets the verdict set aside and reduced to a misdemeanor or SOMETHING.
 

dcmarky

New member
The guy did wrong but murder one and life is excessive and should be appealed. That said, this guy should not be a poster child for an armed citizen completely unfairly persecuted. Best the self defense community not celebrate him.
 

pathfyndr

New member
I think this is the story ...If I remember it right where he shot the guy...returned to the store and got another gun and went back to shoot more after the guy was down???? Once the threat is no longer a threat as far as NC concealed carry laws are. (and I realize that wasn't NC)..you can't keep shooting, and to go back into the store and get another gun, if that is what he did and I am remembering the right story...and go back and shoot him 5 more times...under law...you can't do that. I guess it goes back to understand the laws, and train, train, and train again so you don't go beyond your rights to use deadly force...and most of all for Concealed Carry holders...you better understand the laws of using deadly force... It would be interesting to know if he was trained as a Carry Permit holder...or just a guy who bought guns to protect himself.
 

Bighouse Doc

New member
Very bad decisions made him go from hero to zero rather quickly.

Starting off by lying to the police, inventing a phony war record, and telling a tale contrary to the recorded video sealed his fate.

-Doc
 

mappow

New member
Hard one to make a statement on but I will say this. The whole act was initiated by whom? NONE of this altercation would have happened had the attempt to rob not been started in motion by the BG. NOTICE: No air play by any of the LeftStream Media (That I've heard of) not even FOX as a side story. Was the Pharmacist abused as a child, was he beaten down years ago the he feared a repeat of events? Did he harbor resentment against society? ALL Liberal trash but apparently not the proper cause for them to speculate about in this case.
I see that over 17,000 signatures have been collected to send to the Governor. Hopefully, Gov Fallin will commute and or pardon. This wouldn't have been a story 50 years ago. IMHO, justice was served in the pharmacy. Jus saying.
 

mappow

New member
I would also add that if this type of justice was meted out more. We wouldn't have as much violent crime. That goes for Child Molesters as well. DNA ties them to the child under 13-Death Penalty, 13-16 Castration (NOT chemical but total loss) and 30 years. Need to get back to real justice, not some bastardized Libtard form of coddling.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
Hard one to make a statement on but I will say this. The whole act was initiated by whom? NONE of this altercation would have happened had the attempt to rob not been started in motion by the BG. NOTICE: No air play by any of the LeftStream Media (That I've heard of) not even FOX as a side story. Was the Pharmacist abused as a child, was he beaten down years ago the he feared a repeat of events? Did he harbor resentment against society? ALL Liberal trash but apparently not the proper cause for them to speculate about in this case.
I see that over 17,000 signatures have been collected to send to the Governor. Hopefully, Gov Fallin will commute and or pardon. This wouldn't have been a story 50 years ago. IMHO, justice was served in the pharmacy. Jus saying.

I agree absolutely. This entire situation was created by the 2 thugs. Sure, the pharmacist crossed the line but who's to say what state of mind he was in....after all he'd just stared death in the face and no doubt was in full defense mode. Was he really judged by 12 of his peers?? The jurors in this case should have all been victims of armed robbery. The outcome of the trial might have been different.
 

FloridaBlue

New member
I agree this sentence is quite harsh. Did he overdo it...probably. However his mentality to properly think was most likely blocked by the surge of adrenaline sent to his brain just by the fact he was being robbed. Add adrenaline and probably anger that some punk kids were trying to rob him and I imagine you might be a little pissed off too. I do agree he should not be a poster child for self defense but he shouldn't bare the burden of life because he was FORCED to defend himself in a life or death situation.
 

pathfyndr

New member
well doc...I guess somthing I had after reading the posts is this...carry enough fire power to get the job done in the first place....and yea.. Iagree with what was 50 years ago, but this isn't 50 years ago anymore, and that is why we are fighting for the rights we have to protect each of us today... which the 2nd A gave us anyway... We have had 4 home invasions in NC in the past week that I know of....and one attempted B&E. Homeowners won 3 times, lost once including her dog however she is still alive, and the last never made it in but if he did he would have one becuase she was not armed.
 

pathfyndr

New member
and just an FYI...a different judge handed down a sentence to the two men that recruited the teens and planned the robbery but didn't participate...... life plus 30 years, and life plus 45 years to them... Good for him !!
 

G50AE

Well-known member
Very bad decisions made him go from hero to zero rather quickly.

Starting off by lying to the police, inventing a phony war record, and telling a tale contrary to the recorded video sealed his fate.

-Doc

When in doubt, don't talk to the police EVER without your attorney present.
 

Bighouse Doc

New member
Ultimately, he got a second gun and came back and shot the unmoving POS again.

He planted a fake bullet in the pharmacy at a later date. He stuck metal fragments in his skin to fake being shot.

While we can discuss the good of removing the POS from society, he still clearly broke the murder statute.

-Doc
 

Purple

New member
The Pharmacist did the right thing by defending himself, but to come back and coupe de grace' 5 times definitely falls outside self defense doctrines, let alone common sense of using the appropriate self defense until the threat no longer exists. However; a life sentence seems to be far outside any common sense for sentencing guidelines given the fact that the bad guy was the catalyst for the event and would have probably used his own weapon if given the opportunity. Do I think the pharmacist should pay a price for his actions? Under these circumstances yes and it send a message to all - irresponsible use of a firearm will not be tolerated and will be prosecuted. Lesson learned here folks...be responsible, don't let anger take the place of common sense and defending oneself and others stops when the DB is down and is no longer capable of causing death or injury to others.
 

G50AE

Well-known member
He planted a fake bullet in the pharmacy at a later date. He stuck metal fragments in his skin to fake being shot.

-Doc

I don't care what state you are in, that is Judicial Suicide. You cannot fake or alter evidence. Everyone here should learn that lesson.
 

olsparky

New member
Sentence fair

I use this example in my CFP classes and show the video. The first exchange was justified and heroic. The second time he approached was homicide. Getting a different gun after having walked past him three times and unloading it into a person that was incapacitated with a gun shot wound to the head (not to mention unarmed) is no longer self-defense. Watch the video and he appears calm and unhurried. After he kills the robber he returned the gun to the drawer and then called the police.

There was no threat when he fired the second gun, and his pace showed there was no immediacy of danger. The two elements that are needed for justified use if deadly force, at least by Utah law. A fleeing criminal poses no threat so any use of lethal force turns the criminal into a victim and the shooter into a criminal.

It would be hard enough knowing a life was taken justifiably, but to do so unnecessarily must be torture.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
While I agree that the pharmacist went too far, it's not like he went back to work filling prescriptions, talking on the phone, etc. and then decided to plug the guy a few more times. I'm sure the adrenaline was still pumping through his veins at 100mph. Punish him for lying, tampering with a crime scene, etc., but murder?? No way.

Also, while I don't know all the details of the case, I did read where the BG was unconscious after initially being shot in the head. I'm wondering if the pharmacist didn't go back and shoot somebody who was already dead for all intents and purposes. I'm no forensics expert but I'm guessing that any head shot that's bad enough to render a person unconcious has got to be a pretty nasty wound. I doubt if a bullet that grazes somebody is going to knock them out.
 

wooddoctor

New member
On August 11, 1999, Clinton commuted the sentences of 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican terrorist group that set off 120 bombs in the United States, mostly in New York City and Chicago. There were convictions for conspiracy to commit robbery, bomb-making, and sedition, as well as firearms and explosives violations.[3] The 16 were convicted of conspiracy and sedition and sentenced with terms ranging from 35 to 105 years in prison. Congress, however, recognizes that the FALN is responsible for "6 deaths and the permanent maiming of dozens of others, including law enforcement officials." Clinton offered clemency, on condition that the prisoners renounce violence seeing as none of the 16 had been convicted of harming anyone and they had already served 19 years in prison. This action was lobbied by ten Nobel Laureates, the Archbishop of Puerto Rico and the Cardinal of New York. [4] The commutation was opposed by U.S. Attorney's Office, the FBI, and the Federal Bureau of Prisons and criticized by many including former victims of FALN terrorist activities and the Fraternal Order of Police.[5] Hillary Clinton, then campaigning for her first term in the Senate, initially supported the commutation,[6] but later withdrew her support.[7]

Congress condemned this action by President Clinton, with votes of 95-2 in the Senate and 311-41 in the House.[8][9] The U.S. House Committee on Government Reform held an investigation on the matter, but the Justice Department prevented FBI officials from testifying.[10] President Clinton cited executive privilege for his refusal to turn over some documents to Congress related to his decision to offer clemency to members of the FALN terrorist group.

USDOJ: Office of the Pardon Attorney: Clemency Recipients

Where is the justice?? All he did was take out the trash. I would Pardon him in a heart beat.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,437
Messages
623,660
Members
74,275
Latest member
zxclord123
Top