Hey Atsteward1: Your last statement says it all. The problem with defending yourself is the fact that 1. the prosecutor/solicitor may have a different take on the situation and 2. the eventual jury may agree with the prosecutor and 3. the family of the perp and the perp himself, if he survives, may also think differently. Bottom line: You MAY have saved your life by your actions but the consequences, leaving aside that you have convinced yourself of same, are tens of thousands in legal costs and possible jail. It definitely has to be within 5 or 10 yards, you can demonstrate that retreat was not possible, the perp better have shown a weapon that is recoverable (fists are a he said/he said), and better yet--there is a witness other than another fellow perp. It is a lot to ask of any of us who want to carry a weapon but you've got to train and be very, very, very familiar with the specific case law in your state that governs such deadly self-defense.
OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it?
- Thread starter krmgator
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HootmonSccy
New member
Also - remember that a Criminal trial and a Civil trial do not work on the same weights and measures..
As with OJ.. He was found innocent of murder (Criminal)
But then he was sued by his ex wife's family and they won.. (Civil)
In Criminal cases, the weight is "Beyond a reasonable doubt" (90+% Sure)
In Civil it's "Preponderance of the evidence" (51% Sure)
So the Jury in your criminal case may say, hey we are 75% sure you did the wrong thing, and let you off...
But in a civil Trial, that same 75% will cost you millions of dollars..
I know my answer and I'm sure, based on the posts on this thread, what most of your responses are but here is the scenario. At night I lock my bedroom door, have a cellphone by my bed, and have, in my bedroom, a 12g shotgun and a 38spl. The 38 is right by my bed and the 12g is in a closet a few steps from my bed.I hear a commotion in my living room and it is obvious that someone has broken into my home, is disregarding the ringing of the door/window intrusion alarms, and is looking for things to steal. I certainly do not know if they have a weapon of any kind. My first act will be to call the police. My second act will be to probably get hold of the shotgun since I would have time to get it from my closet, aim the LED flashlight at the bedroom door at eye height, and wait. I will also activate the automobile alarm in the garage since I have the remote with me in the bedroom. Whatever they steal is covered by insurance and no one has threatened me even though I live in a castle state (South Carolina). I would think with all the bells and whistles going off that they would be leaving very quickly. If they try to open the bedroom door I will yell out the fact that they are making a bad mistake that will end their life; if they force the door open, they will be blinded by the flashlight and I will 12g the life out of them. UNTIL they open that door, I do not intend to open the door and try to become Rambo; I am content with my safety and hopes that the police will be showing up soon. Comments?
ga.glockdog63
New member
Well Kelcarry.....I pretty much agree with everything you said if you live alone or with just a wife however, in my home, we have six children. So number one, our bedroom door remains open, any noise and i'm up with my Glock 23 in hand and straight to all the kids bedrooms. The kids know to stay put in their rooms and station myself in the corridor guarding them. In the meantime my wife is on the phone to 911. My wife also has a 9mm in hand for her protection. But first and foremost.....they have to get past our shepherd.:no:
2beararms
New member
In a way it is this scenerio that the Florida Castle Doctrine law was designed to clarify. Again, we are discussing not necessisarly what you WILL do but what you are AUTHORIZED to do.
The big question in this scenerio from an authorization standpoint has always been ... the bad guy is downstairs on the other side of a closed door and all persons are in this room with me ... so I would be violating the "go to the threat" rule to go after him. So Florida decided, My House, My Castle, New Rules!
Florida decided that if your house is entered without your permission and WITH FORCE (which can be a little as prying a door or cutting a screen), then the bad guy has tipped his hand and the weight of the law ASSUMES that ALL of the criteria for deadly force have been met with no further checklist. So the second he enters the first floor with force, you are now assumed in danger of your life and have the legal right to go to the threat and nutralize it, as long as it is still inside the house.
Additionally Florida thought it would be nice that should you be subject to this type of situation you deserve not to be further harassed by the perpitrators family, a bunch of scumbag lawyers or even the police so they added immunities to the law that say the victims family CANNOT sue and gave it weight by saying if some lawyer wants to try and it is found that it applies under the castle doctrine law that his side will wind up picking up the court costs ... a major deterient in the legal world.
As far at the police, they need to have PROBABLE CAUSE that the case does not fall under Castle Doctrine to even do an initial arrest of the shooter eliminating that automatic harrassing interrogation that has been so previously prevolent. That is why this was such a great law lauded with such great promise when it passed even though other states have "stand your ground" laws.
Perhaps even more amazing is that so far it has held up and worked VERY well and in most cases even gets the support of law enforcement and proscecutors (ok, at least private support, we all know public statements are often political not honest).
The big question in this scenerio from an authorization standpoint has always been ... the bad guy is downstairs on the other side of a closed door and all persons are in this room with me ... so I would be violating the "go to the threat" rule to go after him. So Florida decided, My House, My Castle, New Rules!
Florida decided that if your house is entered without your permission and WITH FORCE (which can be a little as prying a door or cutting a screen), then the bad guy has tipped his hand and the weight of the law ASSUMES that ALL of the criteria for deadly force have been met with no further checklist. So the second he enters the first floor with force, you are now assumed in danger of your life and have the legal right to go to the threat and nutralize it, as long as it is still inside the house.
Additionally Florida thought it would be nice that should you be subject to this type of situation you deserve not to be further harassed by the perpitrators family, a bunch of scumbag lawyers or even the police so they added immunities to the law that say the victims family CANNOT sue and gave it weight by saying if some lawyer wants to try and it is found that it applies under the castle doctrine law that his side will wind up picking up the court costs ... a major deterient in the legal world.
As far at the police, they need to have PROBABLE CAUSE that the case does not fall under Castle Doctrine to even do an initial arrest of the shooter eliminating that automatic harrassing interrogation that has been so previously prevolent. That is why this was such a great law lauded with such great promise when it passed even though other states have "stand your ground" laws.
Perhaps even more amazing is that so far it has held up and worked VERY well and in most cases even gets the support of law enforcement and proscecutors (ok, at least private support, we all know public statements are often political not honest).
Hey ga.glockdog63 and 2beararms: Your replies are what I like about this forum--comments that added to my thought process, as I discussed in my previous post. My wife and I are retired so there are no little ones in separate rooms as was noted. Hopefully SC agrees with FL on castle doctrine; if someone comes into your home unannounced he should be aware that he is subject to anything and everything. I still think, in my circumstance, that staying in my locked bedroom and calling the police on cell is still the safest thing I can do.I know where I am, I have a bright flashlight aimed at the door and I am positioned with a 12g at an angle to the door so him shooting first will not affect me--if that door opens (G-d forbid) he will die. I carry a Kel Tec 380 around the house where there is a defined and fundamental right to use the pistol--it is next to nothing to carry and I am always a second away from defending myself without having to run around the house for the 12g or the 38, which are in the bedroom. After 67 years, I can honestly say I have NEVER been in a situation (home or in public) where having a concealed was necessary so I'll go with the odds that if I carry while walking the streets, where discharge becomes more problematic, I may get in more trouble than if I carried. Hey to each his own. Thanks guys for your input--it is a pleasure having these discussions with you.
firebasecrosby
New member
When not to use CCW...I think the correct answer should be to use it only in defense of self or one's immediate family. As Jeff Cooper said-- and I'll paraphrase so as not to mangle the good Colonel's original quote-- a lifelong dedication to deescalation, avoidance and deterence will help extend the length of your life. Kelcarry makes a good point-- 67 years of walking around the planet and he hasn't needed CCW. I hope that's the case for me too; however, I'm going to err on the "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" school of thought.
If someone is clearly threatening me or my family, I will try to talk my/our way out of it and leave the area as expeditiously as possible. This hasn't happened in a long time, mostly due to avoidance of places where conflict is likely and having a physical detterent-- I don't think I look like a soft touch, nor as an active duty Army officer do I appear to be a small, easily defeated victim. Neither does my wife, who can bench her body weight and does more pull-ups than me. She usually leaves the CCW to me, and I haven't needed it yet.
For the classic convenience store robbery scenario- in a situation like that, unless the clerk is going to get killed, I've got nothing invested in the situation and will probably get out of there alive by keeping calm, keeping my head down, and not being a hero. Accidentally shooting a bystander or the clerk in the crossfire would be much harder for me to live with than letting a robber go free, to say nothing of the compelling need to convince a jury that I was somehow threatened by the robber to the point that I needed to kill him. If I had to shoot the robber, it would be because I was personally threatened with imminent death or harm; if he shoots the clerk, it's automatically going to a murder case for him, so why not shoot the rest of his witnesses? His brandishing a weapon would not be a clear case for me to engage him, nor would firing it into the air, but attempted or actual assault with the deadly weapon would probably push me into combat mode.
As far as home defense goes, Castle Law state or not, most of the homes I've lived in had the master bedroom on the second floor. If someone is on the second floor, I think there's a reasonable argument that life/limb are at risk. My wife and I have discussed this a few times. Household Battle Drill# 1 (React to Contact-- Intruder) is pretty simple...
1) Person closest to the child's room goes and gets the baby, then goes to the bedroom, locks the door and gets away from the door, behind cover if possible. Call the police. Stay put until they arrive and knock on the bedroom door. Keep a firm hold on long gun (shotgun) and have backup weapon (pistol) available. Shoot intruder who comes through the locked door.
2) If possible, person not in contact assumes good covered and/or concealed position in another bedroom and watches the stairs, with an angle of fire that will not carry rounds into the bedroom through the wall or door. If this is not possible, both parties take up good covered/concealed positions behind in the master bedroom, and assume good firing stances away from the door and at safe angles from each other.
3) All clear is when person outside the bedroom says the "safety word" through the door. Two code words exist: one means that it is all clear, another one means that it is not all clear and I am being held at gunpoint. Other safety condition is the arrival of law enforcement.
As I said, there's nothing complicated about this. All it took for me was short conversation with my wife and few goofy words (the sillier they are, the easier they are to remember). We say the safety words in public sometimes to describe certain situations, which is amusing and keeps them fresh in mind. Keeping a loaded weapon available with a toddler around is difficult but it can be done, safely, if the right steps are taken.
Great thread, guys.
If someone is clearly threatening me or my family, I will try to talk my/our way out of it and leave the area as expeditiously as possible. This hasn't happened in a long time, mostly due to avoidance of places where conflict is likely and having a physical detterent-- I don't think I look like a soft touch, nor as an active duty Army officer do I appear to be a small, easily defeated victim. Neither does my wife, who can bench her body weight and does more pull-ups than me. She usually leaves the CCW to me, and I haven't needed it yet.
For the classic convenience store robbery scenario- in a situation like that, unless the clerk is going to get killed, I've got nothing invested in the situation and will probably get out of there alive by keeping calm, keeping my head down, and not being a hero. Accidentally shooting a bystander or the clerk in the crossfire would be much harder for me to live with than letting a robber go free, to say nothing of the compelling need to convince a jury that I was somehow threatened by the robber to the point that I needed to kill him. If I had to shoot the robber, it would be because I was personally threatened with imminent death or harm; if he shoots the clerk, it's automatically going to a murder case for him, so why not shoot the rest of his witnesses? His brandishing a weapon would not be a clear case for me to engage him, nor would firing it into the air, but attempted or actual assault with the deadly weapon would probably push me into combat mode.
As far as home defense goes, Castle Law state or not, most of the homes I've lived in had the master bedroom on the second floor. If someone is on the second floor, I think there's a reasonable argument that life/limb are at risk. My wife and I have discussed this a few times. Household Battle Drill# 1 (React to Contact-- Intruder) is pretty simple...
1) Person closest to the child's room goes and gets the baby, then goes to the bedroom, locks the door and gets away from the door, behind cover if possible. Call the police. Stay put until they arrive and knock on the bedroom door. Keep a firm hold on long gun (shotgun) and have backup weapon (pistol) available. Shoot intruder who comes through the locked door.
2) If possible, person not in contact assumes good covered and/or concealed position in another bedroom and watches the stairs, with an angle of fire that will not carry rounds into the bedroom through the wall or door. If this is not possible, both parties take up good covered/concealed positions behind in the master bedroom, and assume good firing stances away from the door and at safe angles from each other.
3) All clear is when person outside the bedroom says the "safety word" through the door. Two code words exist: one means that it is all clear, another one means that it is not all clear and I am being held at gunpoint. Other safety condition is the arrival of law enforcement.
As I said, there's nothing complicated about this. All it took for me was short conversation with my wife and few goofy words (the sillier they are, the easier they are to remember). We say the safety words in public sometimes to describe certain situations, which is amusing and keeps them fresh in mind. Keeping a loaded weapon available with a toddler around is difficult but it can be done, safely, if the right steps are taken.
Great thread, guys.
Just took the CCWP course with the Judys at Belttraining. Tom Judy knows his stuff and is good as it gets on all aspects of CC and gun management. Lisa Marie is as good as it gets on good home cooking and the admin side of the course. As I reviewed the SC law, I realize that outside of walking around there is little else you can do with a CC. You almost cannot go into any business establishment without approval (although the term is "willful" disregard of the law) and you cannot go to a restaurant that serves alcohol so, at night when you might want to have the gun, you are limited to a McDonalds with your wife. If it is a car altercation you have some leeway to have gun loaded as opposed to a non-CC situation. My personal take, as expressed before, is I can carry in and around my neighborhood, which is what I want to do and outside of having gun in car, find CC not very useful in town and almost not-useable at night, where my desired location is probably a nice restaurant with alcohol.
Restaurants and alcohol
It is my understanding that a restaurant that makes most of their money on food (ie Red Lobster) is different from a bar with chips and pole dancers. I can carry into Cheddars or Chillis but not The Mouse's Ear where there are topless dancers and food is not the focus of their service. That's my understanding in Tennessee anyway
It is my understanding that a restaurant that makes most of their money on food (ie Red Lobster) is different from a bar with chips and pole dancers. I can carry into Cheddars or Chillis but not The Mouse's Ear where there are topless dancers and food is not the focus of their service. That's my understanding in Tennessee anyway
Hey CaptVideo: You had better be sure of any and all CCWP conditions in TN. In SC, the word "willfuly" is clearly used in most of the CCWP conditionsm, which at least leaves you with an out for a misunderstanding but I believe (am not totally sure) that going into a Red Lobster can get you in trouble if they find out you have a CCW.Trying to find the specifics in the law but in the general CCWP law the idea of carrying in a restaurant w/bar is not included although it was discussed in my CCWP class and seemed fairly clear as a no no.
utimmer43
New member
Handgunlaw.us claims that as of 7/14/09, you may carry into restaurants that serve alcohol. Realize that it is the policy of Handgunlaw.us to NOT state weather or not you may go into a bar or the bar area of a restaurant or consume alcohol while carrying. For that info, you would need to find the exact writing of the law. Since this just went into effect a couple weeks ago, you might have a hard time finding an up-to-date version.
SC on the other hand, (again, according to Handgunlaw.us) does not allow carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
SC on the other hand, (again, according to Handgunlaw.us) does not allow carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
CCW in Restaurants with booze
Thanks for the good advice. My great friend, a retired policeman says that nobody in the establishment that serves mostly food should see or know you are packing heat. If you do scratch your head and your shirt ramps up, some folks may freak out and call the law. He says most police would respond and access the situation and probably ask you to step outside for a moment, check your permit, maybe inspect your CCW, then let you go. If the establishment has posted signs, leave it in the vehicle. He says that rarely would they 'draw down' on someone and greatly disturb the business.
I don't carry much but since my Walther PPK is back from recall (380) I may carry a little more.
But you are right that one should check the local laws
Thanks,
CaptVideo
Thanks for the good advice. My great friend, a retired policeman says that nobody in the establishment that serves mostly food should see or know you are packing heat. If you do scratch your head and your shirt ramps up, some folks may freak out and call the law. He says most police would respond and access the situation and probably ask you to step outside for a moment, check your permit, maybe inspect your CCW, then let you go. If the establishment has posted signs, leave it in the vehicle. He says that rarely would they 'draw down' on someone and greatly disturb the business.
I don't carry much but since my Walther PPK is back from recall (380) I may carry a little more.
But you are right that one should check the local laws
Thanks,
CaptVideo
GottaBeAh.40
Crazy old Bird
Personally I agree with most of your suggestions with exception to the "I don't have anything in this" statement.
Yes you do. You're a witness to a crime and as such could ID the BG. If they intended to shoot the store owner, or anyone there, chances are high you're gonna get a bullet too. IMO, you should only back up if the drop is on you, otherwise take control of the situation for your safety and the innocent folks around you.
If you're in the parking lot and witness the crime from outside, obviously don't intervene, fall back on the good witness side of the altercation. If confronted, the aggressor will most often prevail. And by aggressor I don't mean, just outta the blue become Johnny BA, but as of late, there are several robberies when the BG actually shot the victim even after complying with their demands. If you have your gun in your hands you have a 50/50 chance. Without it, well you can guess the rest.
Each situation is drastically different and will require different tactics true, but one should always try to hang onto the tactical advantage. Just being aware of your surroundings is a huge step in the right direction. i.e. If your at the counter be aware of the parking lot and others in the store. Just a glance here and there every few seconds should take care of it for ya. If you see something outta place raise your defenses, DON'T show your weapon, but have the mindset to do so if needed. If you draw that sucker don't hesitate to pull the trigger if pressed! Chances are incredibly high that the BG is and will, if given the chance.
A New and Tragic Example: I live in SC and this is on front page these days. A Summerville man in Myrtle Beach for some golf with a friend gets onto a drive-in line at a McDonalds in the evening. He is being continually"honked" by the guy behind him. He moves his car out of the lane and then gets out of his car to approach the honker and they argue and the Summerville man punches the honker. Witnesses heard a "pop" and watch the Summerville man collapse and he eventually died. The honker took off in his car but witnesses noted the description of the car and police found the car, the honker, and the 9mm. The honker, who has a CCWP, has been charged with voluntary manslaughter instead of murder because he was being assaulted at the time. He is being charged because he easily could have retreated by driving away. Obviously either a jury or some pretrial situation will resolve this. Bottom line, at least the way I heard it during my CCWP class, is, if confronted in an aggressive situation, you are obligated to retreat--preferably loudly yelling "I do not want a problem with you" with your hands in the air as a sign of retreat (if anyone is within earshot, they will be important witnesses for you. If he comes at you with a bat and can cause personal injury that makes you fear for your life, AND you cannot retreat any further, then and only then can you use your CCW for defense. Yoiu do not yell "bring it on big boy" when you could easily leave.This case I mention will probably hinge on the honker fearing for his life once he got punched but, quite franky and based on what I currently perceive as the situation, he could easily have driven away before he was punched (I assume he got out of his car to confront this Summerville guy (WRONG MOVE THAT GOT HIM IN TROUBLE). Leaving the scene also does not help him (sure shows he knew what he did is wrong--forgetting about the time honored defense of "I was scared").
COMMENTS?
COMMENTS?
HootmonSccy
New member
Kelcarry - getting a permit does not make you smarter, sometimes it just amplifies your chances of showing how stupid you are ...
Just because someone is honking at you does not mean you need to get out and go confront the person.. IF you confront the person, you do not need to punch the person.. Obviously his blood was boiling when he pulled out of the lane and went over to confront the honker.. His choice, his consequences..
I don't think you have to make announcements and raise your hands, but it is a good technique to support you if something does happen.. It surely beats punching someone in the face..
In Floriduh, you car is part of your Castle Domain.. But there is still the argument that you initiated the situation with all your honking..
I believe this is an example of dumb and dumber getting together for a Big Mac.. and is a bad example for gun owners everywhere..
Just because someone is honking at you does not mean you need to get out and go confront the person.. IF you confront the person, you do not need to punch the person.. Obviously his blood was boiling when he pulled out of the lane and went over to confront the honker.. His choice, his consequences..
I don't think you have to make announcements and raise your hands, but it is a good technique to support you if something does happen.. It surely beats punching someone in the face..
In Floriduh, you car is part of your Castle Domain.. But there is still the argument that you initiated the situation with all your honking..
I believe this is an example of dumb and dumber getting together for a Big Mac.. and is a bad example for gun owners everywhere..
utimmer43
New member
Not true at all.
Link Removed of the SC Code of Laws states:
This is know as "Stand your ground".
That being said, it would be a far stretch for the "Honker" to claim that he felt his life to be in iminent danger if he was just being punched through the window. However, if the "Puncher" was trying to enter the vehicle or forcibly remove the "Honker" from the vehicle, the shooting would have been legal. Of course in either case, driving away is always a bad idea.
In a group (CCW holders) so large there is bound to be a bad apple here and there. Bottom line is, both these guys were idiots. One is dead and the other is going to jail.
armyman_83
lowly crusader
While I have not gotten my CCL yet, since I am stationed overseas[Germany] in the Army (currently deployed to Iraq); but I think that most people here have pretty good answers. I am sure that no one who has posted, and most people on this site would draw and fire their weapon on someone who was just verbally abusive.
As to the whole "gas station/store robbery" scenario I think I would try to take out the perp in most cases. I know I am writing this down while I am not, nor have ever been faced with such a scenario. People have said that they would only respond if the perp was going to either attack the clerk or had killed him--I don't plan on waiting to find out if the clerk is going to be harmed. Perhaps this is just the rashness of youth, or foolhardy ideoloical romanticism. I figure if I can stop someone from being not only possibly murdered, but also robbed--its our duty as armed responsable citizens to intervene if the situation warrents thus.
If you let the robber just flee with money or his life, or both--he will terrorize another person. More than likely he won't just change his ways after one close shave. And if you do nothing, this might even further his criminal ambitions by giving him an idea of it being easy, if there was no resistance. I am sure most petty criminals who rob at either gun/knife point aren't restricted to just robbery, perhaps rape, or burglery is in their job profile too. To simply let the perp get away because he isn't a threat to YOU doesn't make that honorable at all, but I would say rather ignoble.
Sure it's not as if I am a cop or freaking James Bond, but I guess as an infantryman I have the mentality of stopping such injustices at every level. I hope to the Almighty that I am not going to wait for some poor clerk to get his brains plasterd all over cartons of Marlboros or Newports before I act.
I can see not running after the perp or starting a high speed chase after the guy(honestly he shouldn't make it out of the store alive) unless the situation warrented pursuit.
As to the whole "gas station/store robbery" scenario I think I would try to take out the perp in most cases. I know I am writing this down while I am not, nor have ever been faced with such a scenario. People have said that they would only respond if the perp was going to either attack the clerk or had killed him--I don't plan on waiting to find out if the clerk is going to be harmed. Perhaps this is just the rashness of youth, or foolhardy ideoloical romanticism. I figure if I can stop someone from being not only possibly murdered, but also robbed--its our duty as armed responsable citizens to intervene if the situation warrents thus.
If you let the robber just flee with money or his life, or both--he will terrorize another person. More than likely he won't just change his ways after one close shave. And if you do nothing, this might even further his criminal ambitions by giving him an idea of it being easy, if there was no resistance. I am sure most petty criminals who rob at either gun/knife point aren't restricted to just robbery, perhaps rape, or burglery is in their job profile too. To simply let the perp get away because he isn't a threat to YOU doesn't make that honorable at all, but I would say rather ignoble.
Sure it's not as if I am a cop or freaking James Bond, but I guess as an infantryman I have the mentality of stopping such injustices at every level. I hope to the Almighty that I am not going to wait for some poor clerk to get his brains plasterd all over cartons of Marlboros or Newports before I act.
I can see not running after the perp or starting a high speed chase after the guy(honestly he shouldn't make it out of the store alive) unless the situation warrented pursuit.
HootmonSccy
New member
Put everything you own into your girlfriends name and never marry her..
Because once the robbers family civilly sue you, they will take everything from you.. SO if you have nothing, they can't take anything.. Yes you have righted a wrong and you will pay the price of that for the rest of your life potentially, to the family of the scumbag.. So it's a loose/win for them, and a win/loose for you
They loose a family member, but have a check that comes in from you (or directly from the government if it is your retirement check) for the rest of your life.. and you get to stand for what's right, and pay for that privileged for the rest of you life..
You said it.. You are NOT a police person..
IMHO
In the words of Yota.. Choose wisely!!!
Because once the robbers family civilly sue you, they will take everything from you.. SO if you have nothing, they can't take anything.. Yes you have righted a wrong and you will pay the price of that for the rest of your life potentially, to the family of the scumbag.. So it's a loose/win for them, and a win/loose for you
They loose a family member, but have a check that comes in from you (or directly from the government if it is your retirement check) for the rest of your life.. and you get to stand for what's right, and pay for that privileged for the rest of you life..
You said it.. You are NOT a police person..
IMHO
In the words of Yota.. Choose wisely!!!
Hey Armyman 83: Firstly I wish you godspeed and hope and pray you return home safe. I for one respect and honor your duty to this country and offer my profound thanks for your service. My son in law is Army National Guard in South Carolina and I know how much his family sacrifices for his service. As to your scenario-in South Carolina they have the "alter ego" rule on self defense. It basically says that if you are witnessing an assault against someone else that, if it were you, would force you to believe that you are in imminent danger of your life, you have the right and perhaps the duty to use your resources to intervene, including the use of your CCW and deadly force. Like everything in this whole CCW subject, as HootmonSccy said, there are consequences to all our actions, particularly if the CCW is used--it better be crystal clear to you and hopefully other people (preferably they will be reliable witnesses) that the only course was the final inescapable choice. In South Carolina there are also clauses in the law that, if you have proven on a law-legal basis that you were correct in your use of deadly force, civil cases are not valid and are literally refused to be heard. Each state has differences that you must be aware of; before you act under your scenario, you should be sure of what your CCW rights and uses are and the consequences of your actions.
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armyman_83
lowly crusader
Kelcarry, Thank you! It is because of good citizens like most everyone on this board that I am honored to serve.
While I agree with HootmonSccy that you had best choose wisely I think that I would well be within my right and duty to stop the crime. Just because the robber hasn't shot or stabbed the store own doesn't mean he won't. As to the victims family taking all my money, in Alabama (like SC) if someone is cleared of criminal violations on the grounds of self defense, civil law has no claim. Even if it did, I would take my chances.
In the words of the ancient Juvenal--"Believe it to be the greatest of all infamies to prefer one's exsistance to one's honor, and for the sake of life--remove every inducement to live."
While I agree with HootmonSccy that you had best choose wisely I think that I would well be within my right and duty to stop the crime. Just because the robber hasn't shot or stabbed the store own doesn't mean he won't. As to the victims family taking all my money, in Alabama (like SC) if someone is cleared of criminal violations on the grounds of self defense, civil law has no claim. Even if it did, I would take my chances.
In the words of the ancient Juvenal--"Believe it to be the greatest of all infamies to prefer one's exsistance to one's honor, and for the sake of life--remove every inducement to live."
