Off-duty LEO encounter

LOL. As long as it matches your shoes.


I agree with ecocks regarding open carry and changing folks behavior. I also agree that it's a personal choice. With that said, I personally choose to conceal to avoid being stopped and harassed unnecessarily due to the behavior of someone totally out of my control. We have the right to bear arms, as responsible firearms owners, we have to remember that there are other folks out there who have rights as well. One example would be folks who panic and call 911 every time they get "scared" and see a gun. Personally, I think those folks should go the way of the dinosaurs, however this being the United States of America, it's their "right" to call 911 if they feel threatened. Think about it, if a LEO asks to see your permit, you are required by law to present it. If some "Joe Citizen" asked you, would you honestly present him with the permit? I would tell the guy where to go. I don't need some random dude knowing my home address. With that said, I can understand why folks might panic when they see a gun, and therefore I choose to carry concealed.
Glock Fan...I understand your point, I really do and I respect it.

However...if you owned a dog...and you had a neighbor that had a fear of dogs...would you never allow your dog outside because of your neighbor's irrational fear? Or would you do what is legal for you to do and let the neighbor just get over it?

Of course hopefully with the later...the police would explain to the neighbor what you are doing is legal and they will need to learn how to live with it.
Fall Guy,

I understand your argument. I wouldn't care what my neighbor thought about my dog. I would take him walking, keep him on a leash and clean up after him. This is a situation where I wouldn't care what my neighbor though. Where I live you don't need a permit to walk your dog. There's no anti-dog foundation trying to get laws passed to take away my right to own a dog. The police won't respond if someone calls 911 and says "there's a guy on the corner of x & y streets walking a dog". I think you get the picture.

With that said, in most places (except VT and AK), you do need a permit to carry a firearm. Here in HI we need a permit to purchase a handgun, and there's a 14 day waiting period for each handgun purchased (unless you purchase multiple on the same day). The police chief hasn't issued a private citizen a carry permit since 1976. (I've heard of rare cases where visiting dignitaries and their security team got temporary permits, but no true ccw like the ones I've got from FL, GA, NV, and UT). At this point, I will do everything I can to exercise my right, but at the same time, I won't do anything to give power to the anti-gunners. I've had cases where my neighbors call the police because they see me unloading a rifle case from my vehicle. It took me several years to become familiar with the officers at the local police station. It's at a point where a SGT, the LT, or CPT will respond with the beat officer (when one of them is available) to educate the neighbors about the law and other aspect of a responsible firearms owner. The senior officer would explain what the law is and why they are not "doing anything" to the person who called. We have a large military presence here in Hawaii. Many of the folks are here for a couple of years, then they PCS to another duty station. When I get new neighbors who aren't familiar with firearms, then the visit from the local police officers usually begin. I do have a couple of "problem neighbors" (You know the kind, have huge parties and make a lot of noise until 5am and do this several times each month). I've never called the police on them (though I should have on a couple of occasions), but it's funny how they always blame me when the cops show up and tell them to tone it down. It's also funny how they mention to the responding officer "by the way officer, the guy is a NRA member and has a bunch of guns in his house". That's when the "pay off" for me comes into play. The beat officer gives me hassles, I ask him nicely to "please talk to Sgt. xxx, LT. yyy, or Cpt. zzz". The officer calls in to the station and either one of the "brass" come by and clear things up or the officer goes back and talks to the resident and allows me to go about my business.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you treat folks with respect, then hopefully they'll treat you the same way. If you respect the rights of others and demonstrate to the folks who count (LEO for example) that you're doing everything in your power to be a "good guy", then things usually work out in your favor. If you act like a buddy of mine and push the envelope (the guy walks around his yard with a S&W .44 mag holstered), doing stuff that might be "legal" yet may alarm some, expect trouble to come your way. This guy has been arrested several times. Never charged, but arrested and released "pending further investigation". This usually happens when he mouths off to the responding officer. The charge is usually "disorderly conduct". It's a matter of picking your battles. He often tells me that I have no [guts]. I'd rather have no [guts], keep my firearms and stay out of trouble with "Johnny Law", then to be like him and spend thousands of dollars on legal fees, not to mention the time spent in the holding cells.

I'd rather spend my money on more firearms and ammunition. Others may choose to exercise their rights in their way, I'll continue doing it my way.
Glock Fan

First I admit I didn't see you lived in HI before my first response...I agree that in such a strict gun law have to be more careful.

I also believe in not pushing someone's buttons just for the sake of pushing them, having respect for all (until they do something to take it away) and trying to get along with your neighbors.

I think we feel pretty much the same on things.... I guess what I was saying...was if you are exercising your right to openly carry (where legal of course) someone who sees you may have a right to be scared, offended or whatever, but there isn't much they or a LEO can do about it. :) Unless like your buddy you give them another reason.... You need to help him with tact, respect and such... :) Although I have to admit I think it is ridiculous to have the law called on you for walking around armed in your own yard.

Have a good day....but aren't they all good in HI? :)
If more people did it legally then it would be a commom thing and all the anti freaks would be gone to some place else.
I agree that more need to do it legally. I'm all for getting rid of the "anti freaks". It's funny that a good majority of the local LEO support law abiding gun owners. As usual, it's the very vocal "minority" funded heavily by the brady bunch that makes things difficult.
Yeah, I have to agree with BikerRN, if it would have been properly hidden, it would not have happened. The guy may have handled it a little more descreetly, sure. But why put yourself in the situation in the first place. Other then Arizona, were open carry is so common no one bats an eye, evey other state that has open carry doesnt mean its a common enough practice to keep people from freaking out. My CCW instructor in Nevada who was also a Las Vegas LEO put it in perpective. if we get a call about someone with a gun we will respond and point our guns at him and cuff him and ask questions afterward....even though open Carry is legal in Nevada. Im thinking that I would want to avoid this proceedure!
Yes but in this story the store was a convenience store not a liquor store. In my state it is legal to enter a liquor store only places off limits are those that are off limits to persons under 21. It pays to know the laws in your area. As to the incident in question it was slightly tactless of the officer however I can see his point as well.
I had a similar experience picking up a keg for a wedding party.

The officer, however, didn't question my carrying, he came over, leaned in very close and asked me how I liked the compact Glocks. (I was carrying a G26)

He wasn't interested in my opinion, he just wanted to get close enough to see if I had been drinking. (Which I had not)

The encounter was more 'friendly' than adversarial, and to me, was a good example of tact on the part of the officer.
Not being from TN, I have to go by what y'all have typed.

It is a rule in MI that entering an establishment whose primary income is from alcohol sales, you are in violation of the weapons free zones.

That - from what I read - is not the case there, and I agree a quiet attention getter like hey can I talk to you for a second, or some other innocuous approach would have better served. The only other thing that comes to mind is the person may have been nervous noticing a concealed weapon. But, if you have met the person many times before, maybe he doesn't realize how loud he was?

Can't really say, not having been there.:nhl_checking:
Just work on those concealment skills my friend. It would not have even happened if he could not see it! Think about it.
Off-duty LEO

I can see where the LEO could have been acting out of genuine concern for the poster, but I was trained to constantly paly a mental game of 'what if.' In this case, if I were the off-duty LEO, I would be thinking, "What if one of the other people in the place is here to hold it up?" To brace someone loud enough to be heard could result in the putative BG to shoot both members to the conversation out of fear of arrest or worse. There are more diplomatic and safer ways to handle this situation. As far as people being panicked when they see a gun, I had the chance when I purchase my Ruger 10/22 to edducate a WalMart* assistant manager on our state's gun laws. We were talking and he made the statement that if someone with a CPL accidentally flashed the weapon, he could get arrested. I told him the responding officer would more likely realize that it was accidental or on purpose, but that if hte person walked in with the weapon in a visible holster there i snothing anyone could do about it, as Washington is an OC state. He did not know that. I later ran off the info from and gave to him. He appreciated the info, as he was really unaware of the ability to carry open in the state.
If you weren't breaking the law, he shouldn't have accosted you, period.

Well while OC is legal in TN it is only with a permit. Unlike some other states. Also in TN they way the law is, it is illegal to carry a handgun period. But having a Handgun Carry Permit is a "defense" against that law. So if a LEO sees you carrying, as far as he knows, you are breaking the law until you can "defend" yourself by showing your permit.

All that said....finding out if the OP had a permit or not didn't seem to be the intent of the LEO in this case.
"So if a LEO sees you carrying"

Well while OC is legal in TN it is only with a permit. Unlike some other states. Also in TN they way the law is, it is illegal to carry a handgun period. But having a Handgun Carry Permit is a "defense" against that law. So if a LEO sees you carrying, as far as he knows, you are breaking the law until you can "defend" yourself by showing your permit.

All that said....finding out if the OP had a permit or not didn't seem to be the intent of the LEO in this case.

Hence....Better concealment techniques are in order.:triniti:
:offtopic: This is a bit off topic but I wanted to chime in.

Open carry is pretty common in my town, so I'm thinking that maybe cc is probably pretty common, too. Though I'm sure we all do what we can and we hope that adverse things never happens, but if we cc and the jacket happens to fly open in the wind, or rises up and above our waist or ankle, or gets caught in the seat belt, well, we are still okay because both open carry and cc (with the proper permit) are legal in Nevada.

It's my opinion that it's nice to know the Sheriff personally because he knows he's got backup and we know who to backup. I was surprised but pleased that he actually knows who we are because he asked hubby one time if I had yet received my CCW, weeks after I called to check on it's progress in the system? Getting to know the Sheriff in my old county of residence in California would never have happened as that county boasts a population of more than 830,000 people and getting close enough to the Sheriff to even shake hands was considered suspicious behavior. To tell the truth, I cannot even remember their names or their genders in the almost 30 years that I lived in that county. My current county boasts 46,000+, 38,000+ of whom are located in my town, making it a whole lot easier for us to know the local politicians and deputies, and they us. Good or bad, that's the way it is in small towns.

I'm interested in knowing how many current CCWs are on the books in this county. I could be way off base but I'm thinking that maybe 1 out of 10 people cc. I'll try to remember to ask him next time I see him. It's nice that our county's Sheriff isn't just a paper pusher; he's a working LEO. He gets out and about, he oc's, and he writes traffic citations. Not everyone agrees with his politics, but I think it would be hard to deny that he's a hard-working LEO.
GDCLEANFUN's post reminds me of something that happened here a couple of years ago. One of the local TV stations was doing a story on weapons and CCW's and interviewed our Sheriff. The interview was progressing well until the gal from the TV station asked how many CCW permits had been issued here. The Sheriff immediately asked her why she expected him to put out that info, if she was trying to give criminals some kind of idea how" safe" it might be for them here etc. All the time she's spluttering and stammering and can't really get in a word. He didn't become angry, he just put her on the spot. Then he got this HUGE smile, looked straight into the camera, and said "A LOT".

Those were the final words of the interview and the piece they were doing.
Getting to know the Sheriff in my old county of residence in California would never have happened as that county boasts a population of more than 830,000 people and getting close enough to the Sheriff to even shake hands was considered suspicious behavior.

I'm guessing that was south of Sacramento?
I see his concern, but he could have handled it differently. He could have pulled you off to the side to tell you what he wanted to tell you if he was so concerned. In either event, at least he wasn't an a**hole about it and it could have been a lot worse. Thankfully, he wasn't one of those a**hole LEOs who would throw you down on the ground and put a knee in your back.

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