OC at Kalamazoo, MI, public library frightens sheeple...

[ezkl2230]

A man openly carrying a clearly holstered firearm in accordance with MI law set off yet another debate about open carry. He went to the library with his daughter for a summer reading program, and was approached by library administrators, who asked him to leave - and called the police as instructed by Kalamazoo Public Safety. His wife finally persuaded him to leave his firearm in his vehicle. He waited outside, spoke with police, who confirmed that they want the library to contact them whenever someone legally carrying a firearm shows up. Said the library folks:

"We feel you don't need to bring a gun to the library to protect your family," Rohrbaugh said. "We feel the library is a safe place. We have security guards. We take safety very seriously, and we have a code of conduct that we enforce."
"To young children, seeing a gun can be frightening," Madziar said, adding her organization wants libraries to have the ability to set their own policy on guns. Man with gun at Kalamazoo library event raises open-carry concerns | MLive.com

As I posted regarding the situation, at some point, police, who are supposed to know the law, have an obligation to begin explaining to people who call in that someone carrying a clearly holstered firearm and exhibiting no illegal behavior is within their rights under Michigan law. There are too many police departments that have instructed public offices to contact them whenever someone simply carrying a clearly holstered firearm shows up - regardless of whether they are actually engaging in illegal behavior; Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, and Ottawa County are just a few examples. They are supposed to be ENFORCING THE LAW, not harassing law abiding citizens. I regularly see people openly carrying firearms in my line of work. As long as they aren't doing anything that could be considered illegal, I let them go on about their business.

Somehow we have come to accept that people have a right to FEEL safe. No where does the Constitution express such a protected right. The Constitution protects the right to actually BE SAFE via the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, and the Fourth Amendment right to be safe from illegal searches and seizures, which REQUIRES a duly authorized and issued WARRANT based on PROBABLE CAUSE that someone is engaging in an ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. THIS situation doesn't even meet the incredibly low standard of a Terry Stop (reasonable suspicion of ILLEGAL ACTIVITY). Openly carrying a clearly holstered firearm in accordance with Michigan law is not illegal. Period.

The people who believe they have the right to FEEL safe also need to read the study commissioned by none other than Obama himself. It clearly concludes that 1) citizens use their firearms with incredible regularity to deter crime and 2) those who do so are actually SAFER from crime than those who do not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

People need to start to understand that if they don't feel safe somewhere they have the right to leave and go somewhere else. Unless they are in prison. It's time for the people who are legally carrying the guns to stand fast and ask the anti-gun people to leave if they don't like it - you know, like happened at Chipolte's in Oklahoma City.

Our largest battle is currently with the "pro-gun" group that says, "Just hide your gun so you don't upset them."

 

[BC1]

We feel the library is a safe place? Anyone remember the carnage that took place in the Columbine school library? Many of the dead were hiding under tables. I LE friend gave me an uncut copy of the school video from that day... it's horrible!

 

[ezkl2230]

"We feel the library is a safe place. We have [unarmed] security guards."

Let's consider that statement.

• Columbine, CO
  
• Centennial, CO
  
• California State Univ (Fullerton, twice)
  
• Santa Monica College, Rapid City Library (man with knife)
  
• Family History Library (Salt Lake City)
  
• Franklin Community Library (Minneapolis)
  
• Lone Star College Library (Houston)
  
• Los Angeles County Law Library
  

I could go on. The fact is that libraries are no safer than any other location.

The kicker? Almost all of these places had security guards - for all the good it did.

You know what truly amazes me? It is the idea with these people that libraries and schools are somehow sacred because learning takes place there, so no one would ever dream of violating these locations by carrying out attacks there.

 

[aacx22]

"We feel the library is a safe place. We have [unarmed] security guards."

Let's consider that statement.

• Columbine, CO
  
• Centennial, CO
  
• California State Univ (Fullerton, twice)
  
• Santa Monica College, Rapid City Library (man with knife)
  
• Family History Library (Salt Lake City)
  
• Franklin Community Library (Minneapolis)
  
• Lone Star College Library (Houston)
  
• Los Angeles County Law Library
  

I could go on. The fact is that libraries are no safer than any other location.

The kicker? Almost all of these places had security guards - for all the good it did.

You know what truly amazes me? It is the idea with these people that libraries and schools are somehow sacred because learning takes place there, so no one would ever dream of violating these locations by carrying out attacks there.

I didn't see the word unarmed describing the library security guards in the link. Can you tell me where it is?

 

[ezkl2230]

I didn't see the word unarmed describing the library security guards in the link. Can you tell me where it is?

It isn't. I happen to be familiar with the Kalamazoo library, and I know that they are unarmed. I inserted that word to clarify that, when she refers to having security guards onsite, she isn't referring to armed security. That's why the word is in brackets.

 

[aacx22]

It isn't. I happen to be familiar with the Kalamazoo library, and I know that they are unarmed. I inserted that word to clarify that, when she refers to having security guards onsite, she isn't referring to armed security. That's why the word is in brackets.

Okay, thanks for providing additional info then. Curious about one thing. If the Library provided armed guards, do you think that would give them a leg to stand on to register themselves as a place where OC would not be allowed?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I could go on. The fact is that libraries are no safer than any other location.

The kicker? Almost all of these places had security guards - for all the good it did.

You know what truly amazes me? It is the idea with these people that libraries and schools are somehow sacred because learning takes place there, so no one would ever dream of violating these locations by carrying out attacks there.

Even if they did have armed security guards, they still wouldn't be safe:
A History of Shootings at Military Installations in the U.S. | NBC4 Washington

Anti-gun people will never understand that there is only one person who can be relied upon for defense - the person you see when you look in the mirror.

 

[gunnerbob]

This is sorta off topic but, a few weeks ago my family and I were shopping in a Bi-Lo in the area and noticed there was an unarmed security guard standing near the front of the store where the carts are usually kept (inside). I just sorta chuckled to myself and looked to my wife and said something to the effect of the guard be more useless than the cashiers. What could an unarmed guard offer in terms of safety or response that another citizen could not? Hell, I can see crime and report it too! This guard was also in their 50s, not saying that disqualifies that person from being useful but, taken into account with the general health appearance of this person... I don't think they would offer much help. Of course, I could be (& hope I am for the sake of customers) absolutely wrong and this guard could have had the skills to fold my @ss over before I knew it.

Anyway, back to the discussion...

 

[dogshawred]

Understanding the position of the library allows one to understand that the security guards are not going to be armed:
~
"We feel you don't need to bring a gun to the library to protect your family," Rohrbaugh said. "We feel the library is a safe place. We have security guards. We take safety very seriously, and we have a code of conduct that we enforce."

"To young children, seeing a gun can be frightening," Madziar said, adding her organization wants libraries to have the ability to set their own policy on guns.
~
With that in mind, they are against any gun at any time on the premises. So I ask you why are the security guards even there? Just another false sense of security at a cost to the taxpayers. But hey it is for the children even if it doesn't protect them, you can not be there to protect you child while they are there.

 

[r1derbike]

I'm starting to think self-delusion and associated groupthink are worse with some open-carry zealots than with religious zealots.

Odd. I don't see the correlation between the father in this article and open carry, fanatical zealots to which you are referring.

I'm also unsure about the self-deluded, groupthink zealots to which you refer. Are they on this forum? On the internet? Both?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[ezkl2230]

Understanding the position of the library allows one to understand that the security guards are not going to be armed:
~
"… we have a code of conduct that we enforce."

WHAT?! Not a CODE OF CONDUCT!!!

Link Removed

 

[ezkl2230]

Link Removed

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm starting to think self-delusion and associated groupthink are worse with some open-carry zealots than with religious zealots.

I wonder if you are ever going to make a positive contribution to this forum...

 

[recithree]

"To young children, seeing a gun can be frightening," . does anyone have a story where a young child was frightened by seeing a gun? if anything they are fascinated by guns.

 

[Firefighterchen]

"To young children, seeing a gun can be frightening," . does anyone have a story where a young child was frightened by seeing a gun? if anything they are fascinated by guns.

I believe "scare young children" is their way of describing people in the MDA, groups like the MDA, and nosreme.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Rocketgeezer]

"To young children, seeing a gun can be frightening," . does anyone have a story where a young child was frightened by seeing a gun? if anything they are fascinated by guns.

Totally agree here, having been carrying for some time both concealed and open, and when it was concealed it was very half hearted attempt, and when a child seen it, and said something to there parents, being afraid was the last thing they were talking about, case in point while in line at WW a while back a women and her 4 or 5 year old daughter says mommy look that guys got a gun, and moms yes I see your daddy has one to, little girl says I know but this guys is bigger, mom says I see but your daddy wants a bigger one...LOL............stifeling laughter is very tough some times

 

[topgun47]

From the article; "We take safety very seriously, and we have a code of conduct that we enforce."

Right lady, no self-respecting wanna-be thug would ever violate your precious "code of conduct" that you enforce. Without an "armed" guard, how exactly do you "enforce" this anyway? A rap on the knuckles with a ruler? Gimme a break.

 

[ezkl2230]

From the article; "We take safety very seriously, and we have a code of conduct that we enforce."

Right lady, no self-respecting wanna-be thug would ever violate your precious "code of conduct" that you enforce. Without an "armed" guard, how exactly do you "enforce" this anyway? A rap on the knuckles with a ruler? Gimme a break.

They "enforce" it by calling the police, and rest confident that the police will arrive in time to clean up the mess the bad guys created.