Obama is planning a million man militia!

[tattedupboy]

Tatt you have your mind made up not to let anybody confuse you with the facts.

Wrong again. I have made up my mind not to be deceived by hyperbole.

 

[HK4U]

Wrong again. I have made up my mind not to be deceived by hyperbole.

yea right.

 

[tattedupboy]

yea right.

Yes is right. All this sky is falling, Obama is Hitler, Obama million man army stuff is just downright ridiculous. If someone were to post a thread that Lucifer has returned to earth in the form of Obama and I were to dispute it, you'd continue to insist that my head is in the sand. Wake up and listen to yourself, man.

 

[HK4U]

Yes is right. All this sky is falling, Obama is Hitler, Obama million man army stuff is just downright ridiculous. If someone were to post a thread that Lucifer has returned to earth in the form of Obama and I were to dispute it, you'd continue to insist that my head is in the sand. Wake up and listen to yourself, man.

Believe what you want I do not really care. You can believe he is the best thing sense sliced bread if you want to. Believe he is a strong born again Christian that really has all our best interest at heart. Believe he is our Messiah like all those that voted for him do. Crown him king right now if you desire. I will never believe he is anything but the Marxist traitor to the constitution that he has shown himself to be. If by some miracle he repents and changes and turns out to be the best President we ever had then I will admit it. Get back to me when that happens.

 

[tattedupboy]

Believe what you want I do not really care. You can believe he is the best thing sense sliced bread if you want to. Believe he is a strong born again Christian that really has all our best interest at heart. Believe he is our Messiah like all those that voted for him do. Crown him king right now if you desire. I will never believe he is anything but the Marxist traitor to the constitution that he has shown himself to be. If by some miracle he repents and changes and turns out to be the best President we ever had then I will admit it. Get back to me when that happens.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that he was the best thing since sliced bread, that he has our best interests at heart, that he is a messiah, or crowned him king. I just believe it is disingenuous and going overboard to compare him to Hitler, to say that he'll send a million man army out to put down his opposition, and to say he would allow us to be taken over by the U.N.

 

[Husky Girl]

Wait a minute here - I thought part of the reasoning behind the second amendment was so we could have a "militia"? I thought we wanted to protect our national security and doesn't a civilian force seem like a good way to do it? I thought Obama was hated because he was going to make us socialists and give our country away to others, now we hate him becuase he wants to implement a militia and protect the country because our military is busy overseas?

Now that I'm done with my sarcasm - I actually am seeing a little hypocrisy here. Can someone (politely) try to enlighten me as to how exactly a civilian (read - not government run) militia to protect our national security is a bad thing? I'm being completely serious, not trying to make a point using sarcasm - I really don't understand.

 

[HK4U]

Wait a minute here - I thought part of the reasoning behind the second amendment was so we could have a "militia"? I thought we wanted to protect our national security and doesn't a civilian force seem like a good way to do it? I thought Obama was hated because he was going to make us socialists and give our country away to others, now we hate him becuase he wants to implement a militia and protect the country because our military is busy overseas?

Now that I'm done with my sarcasm - I actually am seeing a little hypocrisy here. Can someone (politely) try to enlighten me as to how exactly a civilian (read - not government run) militia to protect our national security is a bad thing? I'm being completely serious, not trying to make a point using sarcasm - I really don't understand.

Kind of like Blackwater or Ravenwood from the T.V. show Jericho?

Link Removed

 

[tattedupboy]

Kind of like Blackwater or Ravenwood from the T.V. show Jericho?

Link Removed

This article refers to a private organization receiving government funds; does not quite fit the definition of a militia.

I started to insert here the definition of militia as it was written in the dictionary, but I felt it more appropriate to instead include the definition as the founding fathers saw it.

Militia: all able-bodied males.

 

[gpbarth]

Wait a minute here - I thought part of the reasoning behind the second amendment was so we could have a "militia"? I thought we wanted to protect our national security and doesn't a civilian force seem like a good way to do it? I thought Obama was hated because he was going to make us socialists and give our country away to others, now we hate him becuase he wants to implement a militia and protect the country because our military is busy overseas?

Now that I'm done with my sarcasm - I actually am seeing a little hypocrisy here. Can someone (politely) try to enlighten me as to how exactly a civilian (read - not government run) militia to protect our national security is a bad thing? I'm being completely serious, not trying to make a point using sarcasm - I really don't understand.

You're being completely serious here? Then you scare me. Tell me, who is going to run this civilian police force if not the federal government? If the president-ELECT is promoting it, does that tell you something? He ain't the local mayor, is he?

You loved the FBI, you loved Homeland Security, you loved the TSA, you'll really love a national police force, with military powers. Have you ever heard of, or read about, or seen, martial law? Are you familiar with Posse Commitatus? And do you have any idea what "states rights" are? Have YOU read the Constitution? States rights trump federal rights, yet you would be very comfortable allowing a national police force to march into your town and declare that they are the law. Jeez! Even within states, police cannot cross city limits and county lines to enforce laws.

Ya know, we're complaining here about the possible misuse of government powers, and you're actually advocating the same thing. Our military is busy overseas, but that has no bearing whatsoever with law enforcement in our country. The military has never been expected to police this country, with the exception of martial law in the case of disasters. We have the FBI, we have Homeland Security (which includes the Border Patrol and Immigrations). We do not need more government intrusion into our lives in the name of security. How about first starting to actively enforce the laws we have, and removing the threats from our streets effectively.

National police force? What national police force? We don't need no steenkin' national police force.

 

[tattedupboy]

When I hear the term militia, I think of an organization more like the Minutemen, who are not under the control of or receiving any money from, any government agency. Blackwater does not fit that definition in any way.

 

[HK4U]

When I hear the term militia, I think of an organization more like the Minutemen, who are not under the control of or receiving any money from, any government agency. Blackwater does not fit that definition in any way.

Exactly my point. What Obama is talking about is not what the Constitutioin was talking about in the 2nd Amendment.

 

[tattedupboy]

Exactly my point. What Obama is talking about is not what the Constitutioin was talking about in the 2nd Amendment.

Whatever mention Obama made of this was just a meaningless talking point from a man who rose to the highest office in the land by making lots of them.

 

[wolfhunter]

Exactly my point. What Obama is talking about is not what the Constitutioin was talking about in the 2nd Amendment.

The militia our founding fathers discussed would be the bunch of us and other like-minded souls banding together to defend against enemies foreign and domestic, not a government organized group. The signers of the Declaration and the delegates to the Constitutional Congress were throwing off, or had just thrown off rule enforced by a government's army. They didn't want a strong standing army, just a core group the militia could join with for the security of the nation.

 

[tattedupboy]

The militia our founding fathers discussed would be the bunch of us and other like-minded souls banding together to defend against enemies foreign and domestic, not a government organized group. The signers of the Declaration and the delegates to the Constitutional Congress were throwing off, or had just thrown off rule enforced by a government's army. They didn't want a strong standing army, just a core group the militia could join with for the security of the nation.

I couldn't have said it better. Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[gpbarth]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The anti-gun groups focus on the first part (A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...), but it is the next part that provides the freedom and right - "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." This does not say anything about "people of the militia" or "people called into a militia" or "people forming a militia." It says the right of the people - period - to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. I do think that we can safely concur that these "people" are the citizens of the United States. IOW - US! Common sense would conclude that the security of this country would be assured if its populace was armed and able to fight back against aggressors (as it did in the American Revolution).

I rest my case, your honor!:big_boss:

 

[tattedupboy]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The anti-gun groups focus on the first part (A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...), but it is the next part that provides the freedom and right - "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." This does not say anything about "people of the militia" or "people called into a militia" or "people forming a militia." It says the right of the people - period - to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. I do think that we can safely concur that these "people" are the citizens of the United States. IOW - US! Common sense would conclude that the security of this country would be assured if its populace was armed and able to fight back against aggressors (as it did in the American Revolution).

I rest my case, your honor!:big_boss:

Let me just add that it was no mistake that the words "militia" and "people" were used seemingly interchangeably. That's because the "people" are the militia!

 

[Husky Girl]

You're being completely serious here? Then you scare me. Tell me, who is going to run this civilian police force if not the federal government? If the president-ELECT is promoting it, does that tell you something? He ain't the local mayor, is he?

You loved the FBI, you loved Homeland Security, you loved the TSA, you'll really love a national police force, with military powers. Have you ever heard of, or read about, or seen, martial law? Are you familiar with Posse Commitatus? And do you have any idea what "states rights" are? Have YOU read the Constitution? States rights trump federal rights, yet you would be very comfortable allowing a national police force to march into your town and declare that they are the law. Jeez!

See, this is what I meant about politely answer my question. No I'm not familiar with Posse Committatus, yes I've heard of martial law, and yes, I've read the Constitution, where a militia of citizens is discussed.

Even within states, police cannot cross city limits and county lines to enforce laws

Yes they can. In most states, although maybe not Florida, police officers are commissioned by the state after they attend a state academy, so they have jurisdiction throughout the state. Some departments have policies discouraging officers from policing outside their assigned city or county area, but it's not forbidden or illegal.

The militia our founding fathers discussed would be the bunch of us and other like-minded souls banding together to defend against enemies foreign and domestic, not a government organized group. The signers of the Declaration and the delegates to the Constitutional Congress were throwing off, or had just thrown off rule enforced by a government's army. They didn't want a strong standing army, just a core group the militia could join with for the security of the nation.

This is what I was thinking of when I heard about a national miiltia. Again, I ask, what's wrong with this? Sounds like a pretty good thing to me.

Maybe they could even:

actively enforce the laws we have, and removing the threats from our streets effectively.

since many areas are cutting police services due to tightening budgets.

 

[HK4U]

I am all for every man, (and woman) being armed and prepared to defend our country against aggressors both foreign and domestic. We all should be ready at all times. I am against a national gestapo stile force being organize and run and funded by a Marxist President.

 

[Glock Fan]

See, this is what I meant about politely answer my question. No I'm not familiar with Posse Committatus, yes I've heard of martial law, and yes, I've read the Constitution, where a militia of citizens is discussed.



Yes they can. In most states, although maybe not Florida, police officers are commissioned by the state after they attend a state academy, so they have jurisdiction throughout the state. Some departments have policies discouraging officers from policing outside their assigned city or county area, but it's not forbidden or illegal.



This is what I was thinking of when I heard about a national miiltia. Again, I ask, what's wrong with this? Sounds like a pretty good thing to me.

Maybe they could even:

since many areas are cutting police services due to tightening budgets.

I find it hard to believe that you're a former LEO and don't know what "Posse Committatus" is. I'll give you a clue, what a lot of people do when they don't know a term used on teh internet, they "Google" it.

As for police crossing into neighboring jurisdictions, maybe your former employer allowed it, but there are many jurisdictions that I know of that often have whizzing contests, and crossing the jurisdictional line is an act of aggression.

Again, as a former LEO, I don't believe that you cannot figure out why it would be bad for us. For one thing, there's got to be a way to pay for this new "police force". Then there's the issue of the great possibility of the blatant violation of our civil rights. I could go on and on, but I'm sure that there are many places you could do some research and figure out why this is bad.



gf

 

[HK4U]

some info on Posse Committatus
Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia