Obama Busted in What May Be the Crime of the Century…


Farmhood

New member
As opposed to the conservative cherry picking usually done on this forum? C'mon, you gotta come back with better than that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app

Just my opinion on a specific post...

sinful nature is always hostile to God....
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
So the people have money, and are forced to accept socialized medicine. One has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is a great many of them come here for treatment. Rather than remain on waiting lists for months, so some low paid doctor can diagnose and treat them. If you doubt that, go visit the waiting room at the Scottsdale Mayo Clinic, or the Arizona Heart Institute. You will see people from every country you've mentioned. That isn't because they think their health care system is so great. You need to stop believing your own bull$h!t.

Billit, I'm curious have you done an actual study of the patients in all the US hospitals? Have you even done a study at the hospitals you mentioned? I thought not. Yes I'm sure that in those hospitals in AZ you've come across people from Norway, Australia, Sweden, Japan, Hong Kong, Ireland, Singapore, Finland, The Netherlands, Germany, New Zealand, France, Luxembourg and Canada every day, can you name one patient from each of those countries? It's really easy to make some BS claim, but it's another thing to have actual studies. But I will give you a number, in 2008 about 2% of US hospital patients came from other countries, about 400,000 people. Sounds impressive until you hear that 6 MILLION Americans every year are seeking medical treatment out of the country. That is 15 times more Americans leave the US for treatment than foreigners who come here. Gosh why would they do that?

Lower costs lure U.S. patients abroad for treatment - CNN.com


And how come according to the Journal of the American Medical Association the rates for readmission to US hospitals dwarf those of foreign countries if our medicine is so good?
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And according to Forbes, a CONSERVATIVE publication, the US trails these countries in quality of health care

1)United Kingdom
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany & Netherlands (tied)
7. New Zealand & Norway (tied)
9. France
10. Canada
11. USA

Notice all of them have socialized medicine except the US.

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries - Forbes

U.S. Care Quality is No Better Than Other Countries
http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/us_care_quality_is_no_better_than_other_countries.php

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/

New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ankings-of-17-nations-us-is-dead-last/267045/

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study
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U.S. Health Care Lags Behind Other Affluent Countries, Study Finds
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So you come up with some made up stuff, and I post empirical facts backed by their sources.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
As opposed to the conservative cherry picking usually done on this forum? C'mon, you gotta come back with better than that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app

I have to disagree with you, the conservatives here don't cherry pick facts, they don't have facts, they have opinions, guesses, assumptions, misinformation, but no facts.
 

r1derbike

New member
Women don't abort babies. They abort fetuses, which up to 20-24 weeks have no measurable brain activity. Therefore no consciousness. And according to the Bible they are not even considered alive until they take their first breath, and that does not happen until the are born. So I'm curious why does the right care so much about what is a bunch of fetal cells without consciousness, but as soon as they're born not give a crap about them?
FNF, your incredibly callous, and pathetic attempt to dismiss abortions as taking life tells me everything I ever wanted to know about who you are, what makes you tick, and even worse, the state of your character. Your statistical nonsense has been an exercise in futility, and ignorance. There's nothing more I need to read from you.

Go ask the "right" what they think about. I am neither left or right. I abhor political affiliations, including yours. For the third time, how about reading my signature?
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
FNF, your incredibly callous, and pathetic attempts to dismiss abortions as taking life tells me everything I ever wanted to know about who you are, what makes you tick, and even worse, the state of your character. Your statistical nonsense has been an exercise in futility, and ignorance. There's nothing more I need to read from you.


Rider, sorry but your sentence makes about as much sense as Sarah Palin. I'll try to decipher what you wrote. Medical science does not consider a fetus a person, or a baby. It does not have consciousness and is not viable outside of the womb. So like doctors, I do not consider it to be a human being at that point. And further the decision to have an abortion is not mine to make, but the mother's as it's her body. Interesting how you supposedly freedom loving people tell someone else what they have to do with their body. How many babies have you adopted? 32,000 Americans are killed by guns every year, 70,000 wounded. BTW you carry a gun, if you feel threatened do you plan on shooting someone? But please tell me how much you respect life.

You are right that my posting statistics and accurate data has likely been an exercise in futility, at least with you because you choose to be ignorant. I have taken the time to post a huge volume of data derived from the most credible, non political sources out there who are expert in their fields. A very high portion of my citations even came from CONSERVATIVE SOURCES, like Forbes, Wall St Journal, Fox, Fortune, Money magazine, etc. My medical sources were the AMA, Harvard, the CDC, the National institutes of health,etc. My gun related information came from the FBI, The CDC, etc. But of course don't believe the actual data that our government, universities, corporations, foreign governments and think tanks use in their decision making processes, no, instead rely on some pissed off guy posting to a blog in his basement who thinks the "guvmint" is out to get all of us because he got a speeding ticket. Or instead just believe Fox news, after all they're truthful 37% of the time.
 

billt

Banned
But I will give you a number, in 2008 about 2% of US hospital patients came from other countries, about 400,000 people.

And why do you think they would do that? 400,000 people who are covered by socialized medicine in other countries, all instead decide to come here and pay out of their own pocket for treatment. Why? Because the care is worse? According to you it is. Remember, these are wealthy, intelligent individuals who have decided to forfeit treatment in their own country, pack up, fly here, and pay out of their own pocket, for what they could have had free of charge. And you think it's because the treatment here is worse? I guess they should have read your post. They could have saved a fortune. :rolleyes:
 

billt

Banned
Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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"A comprehensive 2007 study by European doctors found the five-year cancer survival rate was significantly higher in the U.S. than in all 21 European nations studied."

.

"America is a global leader in medical innovation. The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975."

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"Since 1966, Americans have received more Nobel Prizes in Medicine than the rest of the world combined."

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"Americans undergo cancer screenings at significantly higher rates than people in other developed countries, and access MRI and CT scans at the highest rate of any OECD nation."


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Anyone can drive around the Internet, and cherry pick talking points in order to prove their position. Big deal.
 

Bluestar99

New member
Rider, sorry but your sentence makes about as much sense as Sarah Palin. I'll try to decipher what you wrote. Medical science does not consider a fetus a person, or a baby. It does not have consciousness and is not viable outside of the womb. So like doctors, I do not consider it to be a human being at that point. And further the decision to have an abortion is not mine to make, but the mother's as it's her body. Interesting how you supposedly freedom loving people tell someone else what they have to do with their body. How many babies have you adopted? 32,000 Americans are killed by guns every year, 70,000 wounded. BTW you carry a gun, if you feel threatened do you plan on shooting someone? But please tell me how much you respect life.

You are right that my posting statistics and accurate data has likely been an exercise in futility, at least with you because you choose to be ignorant. I have taken the time to post a huge volume of data derived from the most credible, non political sources out there who are expert in their fields. A very high portion of my citations even came from CONSERVATIVE SOURCES, like Forbes, Wall St Journal, Fox, Fortune, Money magazine, etc. My medical sources were the AMA, Harvard, the CDC, the National institutes of health,etc. My gun related information came from the FBI, The CDC, etc. But of course don't believe the actual data that our government, universities, corporations, foreign governments and think tanks use in their decision making processes, no, instead rely on some pissed off guy posting to a blog in his basement who thinks the "guvmint" is out to get all of us because he got a speeding ticket. Or instead just believe Fox news, after all they're truthful 37% of the time.


To those that are trying to debate with FNF...
Don't argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
And why do you think they would do that? 400,000 people who are covered by socialized medicine in other countries, all instead decide to come here and pay out of their own pocket for treatment. Why? Because the care is worse? According to you it is. Remember, these are wealthy, intelligent individuals who have decided to forfeit treatment in their own country, pack up, fly here, and pay out of their own pocket, for what they could have had free of charge. And you think it's because the treatment here is worse? I guess they should have read your post. They could have saved a fortune. :rolleyes:

You fail to comprehend that for every foreigner who comes to the US for medical treatment that 15 Americans go out of the country for medical treatment. And you use the word wealthy to describe those that do come here, which confirms what I stated before is if you can AFFORD the best treatment here you get the best, however very few Americans can afford the best treatment and that's why 6 million of them get their healthcare OUTSIDE of the US.

But to keep it simple for you 400,000 come here, 6,000,000 leave here. Which is the far bigger number? So why on earth would 6 million Americans as you put it,"have decided to forfeit treatment in their own country, pack up, fly There, and pay out of their own pocket?"
Maybe because they couldn't afford life saving treatment here and would die without it, so they went to another country where the medical services there would save their life? How good is the medical care in a country if 6 million people have to leave it for another country?

Is it because it's the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US are medical bills?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0310/top-5-reasons-people-go-bankrupt.aspx
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/12/health-care-bill-bankruptcies/
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.



"A comprehensive 2007 study by European doctors found the five-year cancer survival rate was significantly higher in the U.S. than in all 21 European nations studied."

.

"America is a global leader in medical innovation. The US solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975."

.

"Since 1966, Americans have received more Nobel Prizes in Medicine than the rest of the world combined."

.

"Americans undergo cancer screenings at significantly higher rates than people in other developed countries, and access MRI and CT scans at the highest rate of any OECD nation."


.

Anyone can drive around the Internet, and cherry pick talking points in order to prove their position. Big deal.



This is actually a true statement!! Finally!!!! Yes you're almost ready to discuss things like a grown up!!!! However, in other countries overall they live longer than us and have better medical outcomes for ALL other diseases. But we do better than them with cancer, only. But you failed to mention that they do better with all other diseases.

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries - Forbes

U.S. Care Quality is No Better Than Other Countries
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New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last
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U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study
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U.S. Health Care Lags Behind Other Affluent Countries, Study Finds
Link Removed
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
To those that are trying to debate with FNF...
Don't argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.


To those that like to post things that don't provide any actual information or facts but instead just need to insult someone because they disagree with them and are incapable of supporting their baseless opinions, I quote a perfect example above.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Deny the obvious because it suits you, but just how well does ignorance really serve you? I have taken the time to provide verifiable information from reliable sources, non partisan, but also include conservative sources just to show that facts are non partisan.

Here’s a list of the citations I posted to support my statements of fact. The sources include, the Congressional Budget office, who is the official non partisan budget accounting office, The Bureau of Economic Advisors, Bureau of labor statistics, US treasury, CNN, Forbes, Marketwatch, The Wall St Journal, The Hill, Harvard, The Washington Post,AP, Bankrate, Politifact, Fox, Christian Science Monitor, Fortune, The FBI, The CDC, US News and World report, Bloomberg, Journal of American Medical Association, NY Times, Reuters, The atlantic, CNBC, Factcheck.org, Business week, Kaiser Family health, and others.

To deny facts is utter stupidity.

Link Removed
Monthly Budget Review for September 2014 | Congressional Budget Office
Monthly Budget Review for September 2014 | Congressional Budget Office
Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war - CNN.com
How the bubble destroyed the middle class - MarketWatch
Obama Outperforms Reagan On Jobs, Growth And Investing - Forbes
Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ
Romney vows to lower unemployment rate to 6 percent by end of first term | TheHill
http://popist.com/s/5ea30c5/
http://popist.com/s/5ea30c5/
Newt Gingrich's $2.50 gas promise - Feb. 24, 2012
Opting Out Of Medicaid Expansion: The Health And Financial Impacts ? Health Affairs Blog
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AP Exclusive: Second Bush-era gun-smuggling probe
Map: Which States Are Expanding Medicaid? | Bankrate.com
Opting Out Of Medicaid Expansion: The Health And Financial Impacts ? Health Affairs Blog
Harvard/CUNY study estimates death toll from rejecting Medicaid expansion
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Addicting Info ? Analysis: Over Half of All Statements Made on Fox News Are False
http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012/confirmed/final.pdf
The dumbing effect of cable news - Erik Wemple - The Washington Post
snopes.com: Did Al Gore Claim He Invented the Internet?
Political misquotes: The 10 most famous things never actually said - 'I invented the Internet.' ? Al Gore - CSMonitor.com
EBay to cut 2,400 jobs, unload enterprise business - Fortune
Deaths by Firearms, 1979?2010
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 10
Link Removed
Homicide | Harvard Injury Control Research Center | Harvard School of Public Health
Firearms and Suicide in the United States: Is Risk Independent of Underlying Suicidal Behavior?
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports?
Poll: Rising economy boosts Obama?s standing on eve of the State of the Union - The Washington Post
Link Removed
Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use | Harvard Injury Control Research Center | Harvard School of Public Health
How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek
Link Removed
http://www.nsc.org/NSCDocuments_Corp...s-Dying-43.pdf
Why the economy performs better under Democratic presidents - Fortune
Want a Better Economy? History Says Vote Democrat! - Forbes
Which Party Does the Market Perform Best Under? - US News
History Shows Stocks, GDP Outperform Under Democrats | Fox Business
Republican or Democrat Presidents: Which Are Better for the Stock Market? - DailyFinance
Stocks Return More With Democrat in White House: BGOV Barometer - Bloomberg
Debunking Canadian health care myths - The Denver Post
How Does Britain's National Health Service Work? - TIME
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Opting Out Of Medicaid Expansion: The Health And Financial Impacts ? Health Affairs Blog
Lower costs lure U.S. patients abroad for treatment - CNN.com
Dorland Health - U.S. Readmission Rates Dwarf Foreign Countries, Says JAMA
U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries - Forbes
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Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
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When Obama took office the stock market was around 8000, now it's been 17500-18000.
The GDP was Negative 8% now it's positive 5%
We were losing as many as 800,000 jobs a month under Bush, but under Obama we've had 58 straight months of job growth
In Bush's last 3 months in office we lost 2.1 million jobs, under Obama we've added more than 11 million
According to the CBO the day Obama took the oath, the annual deficit was $1.2 Trillion, it's now $458 billion, the largest drop in the deficit as a % of GDP since WWII
The unemployment rate was 7.6%, it's now 5.6% and the FED expects it to drop to 5.3% in the next year.
Oil hit a high of $147 a barrel under Bush, today it's under $47, if you take inflation into account it's actually $110 a barrel cheaper
The US was an energy importer, now it's an energy exporter.

The claim Obama was becoming an "imperial" president because of his use of executive orders.
Average executive orders per year by president:
Obama 33
Bush (43) 36
Clinton 46
Bush (41) 42
Reagan 48
Carter 80
Ford 69
Nixon 62
Johnson 63
Kennedy 75
Eisenhower 61
Truman 117
Roosevelt 307
Hoover 242
Coolidge 215
Harding 217
Wilson 225
You have to go back to Grover Cleveland in 1897 to find a president who has used less executive orders than Obama


Here are the numbers from the US Bureau of Labor statistics, that show the US employment rolls by month, in thousands.

Download: Download as an Excel File
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2004 130747 130791 131123 131372 131679 131753 131785 131917 132079 132425 132490 132619
2005 132753 132992 133126 133489 133664 133909 134282 134478 134545 134629 134966 135125
2006 135402 135717 135997 136179 136202 136279 136486 136670 136827 136829 137039 137210
2007 137448 137536 137724 137802 137946 138017 137984 137968 138053 138135 138253 138350
2008 138365 138279 138199 137985 137803 137631 137421 137162 136710 136236 135471 134774
2009 133976 133275 132449 131765 131411 130944 130617 130401 130174 129976 129970 129687
2010 129705 129655 129811 130062 130578 130456 130395 130353 130296 130537 130674 130745
2011 130815 130983 131195 131517 131619 131836 131942 132064 132285 132468 132632 132828
2012 133188 133414 133657 133753 133863 133951 134111 134261 134422 134647 134850 135064
2013 135261 135541 135682 135885 136084 136285 136434 136636 136800 137037 137311 137395
2014 137539 137761 137964 138268 138497 138764 139007 139210 139481 139742 140095(P) 140347(P)


Job losses or gains by month:
Download: Download as an Excel File
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2001 -30 72 -25 -281 -38 -129 -115 -158 -242 -324 -294 -171
2002 -142 -133 -19 -80 -8 57 -85 -15 -60 125 10 -158
2003 94 -153 -210 -45 -11 10 23 -41 102 196 16 124
2004 161 44 332 249 307 74 32 132 162 346 65 129
2005 134 239 134 363 175 245 373 196 67 84 337 159
2006 277 315 280 182 23 77 207 184 157 2 210 171
2007 238 88 188 78 144 71 -33 -16 85 82 118 97
2008 15 -86 -80 -214 -182 -172 -210 -259 -452 -474 -765 -697
2009 -798 -701 -826 -684 -354 -467 -327 -216 -227 -198 -6 -283
2010 18 -50 156 251 516 -122 -61 -42 -57 241 137 71
2011 70 168 212 322 102 217 106 122 221 183 164 196
2012 360 226 243 96 110 88 160 150 161 225 203 214
2013 197 280 141 203 199 201 149 202 164 237 274 84
2014 144 222 203 304 229 267 243 203 271 261 353(P) 252(P)
P : preliminary



data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet


Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2001 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.3 5.5 5.7
2002 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0
2003 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7
2004 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4
2005 5.3 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.9
2006 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4
2007 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.7 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.7 5.0
2008 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.3
2009 7.8 8.3 8.7 9.0 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.8 10.0 9.9 9.9
2010 9.8 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.6 9.4 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.4 9.8 9.3
2011 9.2 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.0 8.8 8.6 8.5
2012 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.0 7.8 7.8 7.7 7.9
2013 8.0 7.7 7.5 7.6 7.5 7.5 7.3 7.2 7.2 7.2 7.0 6.7
2014 6.6 6.7 6.6 6.2 6.3 6.1 6.2 6.1 5.9 5.7 5.8 5.6
 

billt

Banned
You have to go back to Grover Cleveland in 1897 to find a president who has used less executive orders than Obama.

And no matter how far you went back, you would never find a bigger spender. End of story.

.

President Obama: The Biggest Government Spender In World History - Forbes

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Rick Ungar Is Wrong: Obama Is The Biggest Spender In World History - Forbes

.

Obama?s the Biggest Spender in World History - Peter Ferrara - Page full

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The Biggest Spender: Obama Has Spent More Money Than Anyone In History of World - Breitbart

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Link Removed

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National debt up $6 trillion since Obama took office - CBS News

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And every link works. You up for $20 TRILLION, because you're going to get it. You're just not going to get much for it.
 

MI .45

MI .45

An ole' FNF will come up with some way to deny that any of those stories are true, or discredit the source, or the numbers are skewed, or... some justification somehow (i.e. psychobabble).

Good list Bill.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
And no matter how far you went back, you would never find a bigger spender. End of story.

.

President Obama: The Biggest Government Spender In World History - Forbes

.

Rick Ungar Is Wrong: Obama Is The Biggest Spender In World History - Forbes

.

Obama?s the Biggest Spender in World History - Peter Ferrara - Page full

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The Biggest Spender: Obama Has Spent More Money Than Anyone In History of World - Breitbart


And every link works. You up for $20 TRILLION, because you're going to get it. You're just not going to get much for it.

I'm sure you're aware that those 4 links all go back to the same one guy and his analysis, and that he happened to work for dedicated conservative sources? And that the piece is labeled "Opinion" which means don't assume as fact.

Here's what he basically says in a very round about way in an effort to justify how Bush's last budget, FY 2009 was such an enormous increase. He's claiming the budget wasn't signed until after Obama took office, Obama signed it, both of which is true, and that democrats in the House knowing that Obama would win were able to somehow jack up the budget request in 2008. The last part being really absurd when you know the timing that on February 4 of 2008, BUSH proposed a budget of $3.1 Trillion. That's 10 months BEFORE the election, the Democrats had only held 6 primaries, with about 70 more primaries and state conventions to go. And yet they were positive they he'd beat Hillary, and then beat whoever the Republican nominated.Now that's confidence! But nevertheless, it was BUSH who proposed the $3.1 trillion budget and almost a year BEFORE Obama took office.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/washington/04cnd-budget.html
Bush's budget proposal is biggest - politics | NBC News
Bush's Final Budget Proposal: $3.1 Trillion : NPR


So what was the budget that Obama signed in March of 2009? $3.1 Trillion, just like Bush proposed. But Obama did have to add some $400 billion above that. It seems that he inherited an economy on the verge of total collapse, GDP was negative 8.2% when he took office, we were losing 800,000 jobs a month, the stock market dropped by a third and the US lost 30% of it's wealth and we were in the middle of the worst recession since the Great Depression. So he proposed a stimulus package, which would involve the Federal government pumping money into the economy in order to save us from what was feared to be a depression. According to the non partisan Congressional Budget office, whose job it is to score how much government programs cost they stated that, in it's first year it increased employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million people, and potentially 8.4 million by 2013. Since Obama took office 10,640,000 jobs have been added.

Here's a list of 9 studies in 2011 into the effectiveness of the stimulus package. 7 out of 9, including the CBO said it worked,
Link Removed

Here's the CBO report
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/08-23-2012-RecoveryAct.pdf
 

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