Obama Busted in What May Be the Crime of the Century…


FactsNotFiction

New member
Don't forget that several million women abort their babies every year. You see, it's about choices, not the lives of the unborn.


Women don't abort babies. They abort fetuses, which up to 20-24 weeks have no measurable brain activity. Therefore no consciousness. And according to the Bible they are not even considered alive until they take their first breath, and that does not happen until the are born. So I'm curious why does the right care so much about what is a bunch of fetal cells without consciousness, but as soon as they're born not give a crap about them?
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
I have to say that reading some of these posts makes me really sad for America. The sheer level of ignorance is staggering. There used to be a time when Americans cared about the truth, yearned for the truth and when confronted with facts had enough integrity to admit when their opinion was wrong, now it seems what many Americans want is just to think they're right, and no matter how many facts and how much reality they are confronted with they still hold onto to what is basically a delusion.

No matter what you may believe, the country is far better off now than it was when Obama took office. Every economic indicator is better. That's just an indisputable fact. Not an opinion, not a gut feeling, not a perception. A fact. And the fears that so many of you had that Obama would be some radical commie, well it turns out he wasn't even all that liberal, much to the disappointment of liberals. He was pretty much down the middle.

Now some of you will never change your mind, no matter how obvious the reality or the facts. Instead you'll live in world that scares you because you just don't understand it because it doesn't fit in with your opinions, so you'll find someone to demonize, you'll imagine commies running a country in which capitalism strangely enough is doing really well. And instead of the wealth of the rich being redistributed, the richer are getting richer to a level not seen since just before the Great Depression. Strange, that's the opposite of communism. But those commies are calling the shots right? Must be very frightening when reality and your perceptions don't match.
 

CapGun

New member
Women don't abort babies. They abort fetuses, which up to 20-24 weeks have no measurable brain activity. Therefore no consciousness. And according to the Bible they are not even considered alive until they take their first breath, and that does not happen until the are born. So I'm curious why does the right care so much about what is a bunch of fetal cells without consciousness, but as soon as they're born not give a crap about them?


Dear FictionnotFacts. oops:sarcastic: Late term abortions?????
 

billt

Banned
There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism -- by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. All of your silly gobbledygook doesn't change any of it in the least. What's funny, (it's actually hilarious), is watching a liberal socialist deny the fact they're a communist.
 

fuhr52

New member
Women don't abort babies. They abort fetuses, which up to 20-24 weeks have no measurable brain activity. Therefore no consciousness. And according to the Bible they are not even considered alive until they take their first breath, and that does not happen until the are born. So I'm curious why does the right care so much about what is a bunch of fetal cells without consciousness, but as soon as they're born not give a crap about them?

Fetuses, really. So what is it these fetuses become when they are full term? Goats, chickens, ducks, dogs, cats,........ Why is it if a woman carrying a fetuses is murdered the law considers this a double homicide?
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Dear FictionnotFacts. oops:sarcastic: Late term abortions?????

Actually I oppose late term abortions unless the mother's life is at risk, however 92% of all abortions happen in the first 13 weeks, 98.8% in the first 21 weeks, which is only half way through gestation. The term "late term abortion" refers to the period of time after which the fetus is viable outside of the uterus, which is defined as 24 weeks in the US. About .02% of abortions occur after 24 weeks.

Since the fetus starts to have brain activity between 20 and 24 weeks I would be opposed to abortion after that period because to me that indicates at least the beginning of a consciousness.

But the Bible does say;
Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”
"Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
"Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

That has been interpreted for millennia as being that you aren't alive until you take your first breath.

and regarding abortion: In Exodus 21: 22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Fetuses, really. So what is it these fetuses become when they are full term? Goats, chickens, ducks, dogs, cats,........ Why is it if a woman carrying a fetuses is murdered the law considers this a double homicide?


Because man has written a law saying so, and the assumption being that the mother had intended to give birth to the child, plus let's be real anyone who kills a pregnant woman should really get crushed by the law, the Bible however does not consider the fetus to be alive until it is born.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism -- by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. All of your silly gobbledygook doesn't change any of it in the least. What's funny, (it's actually hilarious), is watching a liberal socialist deny the fact they're a communist.

Wow you just dig deeper holes of ignorance. Socialism as practiced in self stated socialist countries, like those in Norway, Sweden, etc, is the government providing services to the citizens that could have been done by a private source. So police, fire departments, the military, schools, road and bridge building, etc are all socialist programs. And BTW the US is a socialist/capitalist hybrid and has been for more than a century. The interstate highway system? Socialist. Your local police and professional fire departments? Socialist. Public school? Socialist. NASA, National weather bureau, FAA, FBI, US military, all socialist programs. That marshall hired by the townsfolk to provide law enforcement in the 1850's? Socialist. In fact any service the government provides for you is socialist. And why is that? Because when you make a service for profit, profit not service becomes the motive.

There's a recent case of a judge being paid by a private prison company to send kids to prison for even minor offenses because they made a ton of money on each prisoner, taxpayer money no less. (He ended up going to prison) So there are some services that you don;t want to have a profit motive involved with. One of the reasons why all of the advanced industrialized nations, except us, have nationalized health care. They don't want the profit motive to be a factor in people living or dying. The so called "death panels" have existed in our country since the advent of insurance companies. The insurance companies will allow you to die if your treatment costs them too much. If you get sick they'll cancel your coverage because they don't want to pay for your life saving treatment. And if you have a preexisting condition they won't even insure you because you'll cost them money. Obama that bastard forced the insurance companies to provide insurance to people with existing conditions, and let's be real, we are all going to have an existing condition one day unless you just drop dead, and he also barred the insurers from canceling your insurance after you got sick.

And btw do you know when healthcare costs took their biggest increase? When Reagan stopped using federal money to help pay for people's health care and created the whole HMO industry. You now had a middleman, the HMO or health insurer and of course they needed their profit, so costs went up. Everyone knows a middleman only makes things more expensive and that it's always cheaper to buy direct from the provider, but I guess that didn't matter. But in those socialist countries healthcare costs less than half, even a third of what it costs here in the US. And while you may want to argue that the US has the best health care in the world, it only does if you can afford it.
 

MI .45

MI .45
Women don't abort babies. They abort fetuses, which up to 20-24 weeks have no measurable brain activity. Therefore no consciousness. And according to the Bible they are not even considered alive until they take their first breath, and that does not happen until the are born. So I'm curious why does the right care so much about what is a bunch of fetal cells without consciousness, but as soon as they're born not give a crap about them?

Taking ONE identifying aspect of life as the sole determinate of life itself is ridiculous. If you're using Gen 2:7 (And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.) that particular passage references God breathing life into Adam, a fully formed man. If breath is "Biblical life", is someone choking from an object lodged in their throat "Biblically dead" and can then be justifiably terminated? Leviticus 17:11 (For the life of a creature is in the blood.) Can we now set the human embryo as being biblically alive at 5 weeks when the heart has been proven scientifically to be pumping blood? (Fetal development: The 1st trimester - Mayo Clinic) Or... even before when God stated that he KNEW Jeremiah before he was conceived - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jer. 1:5
To justify and advocate for abortion based on a single "life" metaphor and selective quotations from the Bible you should use a more scholarly source than the DailyKos where much of this mumbo-jumbo came from.
 

billt

Banned
One of the reasons why all of the advanced industrialized nations, except us, have nationalized health care. They don't want the profit motive to be a factor in people living or dying. The so called "death panels" have existed in our country since the advent of insurance companies. The insurance companies will allow you to die if your treatment costs them too much. If you get sick they'll cancel your coverage because they don't want to pay for your life saving treatment. And if you have a preexisting condition they won't even insure you because you'll cost them money.

Who the hell are you trying to kid? Do you make this nonsense up as you go along? Under socialized medicine people die waiting to see a doctor. It's a fact. Why do you think these people in Canada abandon their system left and right, and come here? And all of them are more than happy to pay out of their own pocket to get treatment. The backlog to see a specialist in most of these countries is 6 months or more. That's great when you're diagnosed with cancer. You talk about "death panels". That's a guaranteed death sentence. You're a typical liberal communist buffoon.

..

How many failed examples of socialized government, and medicine do you need? Look at Europe. Socialism is failing everywhere. Unemployment is double what it is here, even with a sickened Obama economy. Our hospitals are inundated with people from countries that have socialized medicine, and it has failed them. You need to get your head out of your ass. Fantasy Land is fine to visit. Like most liberal communists, you've been living there too long! As Adolph Hitler once said. "It's OK to lie to the people. The danger presents itself when you believe your own lies." You're walking proof of that statement.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Taking ONE identifying aspect of life as the sole determinate of life itself is ridiculous. If you're using Gen 2:7 (And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.) that particular passage references God breathing life into Adam, a fully formed man. If breath is "Biblical life", is someone choking from an object lodged in their throat "Biblically dead" and can then be justifiably terminated? Leviticus 17:11 (For the life of a creature is in the blood.) Can we now set the human embryo as being biblically alive at 5 weeks when the heart has been proven scientifically to be pumping blood? (Fetal development: The 1st trimester - Mayo Clinic) Or... even before when God stated that he KNEW Jeremiah before he was conceived - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jer. 1:5
To justify and advocate for abortion based on a single "life" metaphor and selective quotations from the Bible you should use a more scholarly source than the DailyKos where much of this mumbo-jumbo came from.

A heart beat does not indicate consciousness. and having blood does not indicate a beating heart. According to medical science there is no consciousness at that point, 5 weeks, and the fetus is not even close to being viable. So you have to decide which criteria to follow, those written 2000 and 5000 years ago, when man had little medical knowledge, or use the definitions of modern day science.

But if you want more religion the Bible does go on to say;
Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”
"Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
"Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

That has been interpreted for millennia as being that you aren't alive until you take your first breath.

and regarding abortion: In Exodus 21: 22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.



You bring up Leviticus, a book which makes "Game of Thrones" seem peaceful

20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."
20:27 "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."
and a few favorites:

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel."
Deuteronomy 22:23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you".
Deuteronomy 17:12 "And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel."
Exodus 31:15 "For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death"

So I assume that you carry a firearm in order to follow these commands from the Bible and kill those who have committed these sins? Or do you just pick and choose which Bible verses to follow?

The point being, medical science is based on fact, and when imposing laws upon they should be based on fact not religious belief which is open the an enormous and every changing interpretation.
 

FactsNotFiction

New member
Who the hell are you trying to kid? Do you make this nonsense up as you go along? Under socialized medicine people die waiting to see a doctor. It's a fact. Why do you think these people in Canada abandon their system left and right, and come here? And all of them are more than happy to pay out of their own pocket to get treatment. The backlog to see a specialist in most of these countries is 6 months or more. That's great when you're diagnosed with cancer. You talk about "death panels". That's a guaranteed death sentence. You're a typical liberal communist buffoon.

..

How many failed examples of socialized government, and medicine do you need? Look at Europe. Socialism is failing everywhere. Unemployment is double what it is here, even with a sickened Obama economy. Our hospitals are inundated with people from countries that have socialized medicine, and it has failed them. You need to get your head out of your ass. Fantasy Land is fine to visit. Like most liberal communists, you've been living there too long! As Adolph Hitler once said. "It's OK to lie to the people. The danger presents itself when you believe your own lies." You're walking proof of that statement.

Here in descending order are the countries with the highest living standards:
Norway, Australia, Sweden, Japan, Hong Kong, Ireland, Singapore, Finland, The Netherlands, Germany, New Zealand, France, Luxembourg, Canada, The US. Besides having a better standard of living than the US those 14 countries ALL have universal health care. Also most of them are more socialized than the US.

And those socialist economies still hurting, well in the first place they're hurting because they bought US mortgage backed securities which wrecked their financial sectors as well as their economies, and those hurting the most are doing so because they imposed austerity plans which prolonged their recessions.

Please give credible citations where under socialized medicine people die waiting for doctors? Where there are delays, and ask ANY Canadian, is for ELECTIVE procedures. Anything life threatening is dealt with Immediately.

Debunking Canadian health care myths - The Denver Post

From Time magazine:"Like most developed countries, Britain ranks above the U.S. in most health measurements. Its citizens have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality, and the country has more acute-care hospital beds per capita and fewer deaths related to surgical or medical mishaps. Britain achieves these results while spending proportionally less on health care than the U.S. "

How Does Britain's National Health Service Work? - TIME

From the NYTimes:"In our market-based system, patients can get lucrative procedures rapidly, even when there is no urgent medical need: Need a new knee, or an M.R.I., or a Botox injection? You’ll probably be on the schedule within days. But what if you’re an asthmatic whose breathing is deteriorating, or a diabetic whose medicines need adjustment, or an elderly patient who has unusual chest pain and needs a cardiology consultation? In much of the country, you can wait a week or weeks for such office appointments — or longer if you need to find a doctor who accepts your insurance plan or Medicare."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/s...s-appointments-have-become-the-norm.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/06/sunday-review/waiting-and-waiting.html

And Harvard did a study that concluded that between 7,000 and 17,000 Americans will die in those 24 republicans states that did not expand medicare as per the ACA. All preventable deaths.
Opting Out Of Medicaid Expansion: The Health And Financial Impacts ? Health Affairs Blog
 

Farmhood

New member
More liberal socialist cherry picking. Just another example of progressive propaganda. Just my opinion...no personal attack 😄

sinful nature is always hostile to God....
 

billt

Banned
Here in descending order are the countries with the highest living standards:
Norway, Australia, Sweden, Japan, Hong Kong, Ireland, Singapore, Finland, The Netherlands, Germany, New Zealand, France, Luxembourg, Canada, The US. Besides having a better standard of living than the US those 14 countries ALL have universal health care.

So the people have money, and are forced to accept socialized medicine. One has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is a great many of them come here for treatment. Rather than remain on waiting lists for months, so some low paid doctor can diagnose and treat them. If you doubt that, go visit the waiting room at the Scottsdale Mayo Clinic, or the Arizona Heart Institute. You will see people from every country you've mentioned. That isn't because they think their health care system is so great. You need to stop believing your own bull$h!t.
 

GryHounnd

Banned
More liberal socialist cherry picking. Just another example of progressive propaganda. Just my opinion...no personal attack 😄

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

As opposed to the conservative cherry picking usually done on this forum? C'mon, you gotta come back with better than that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app
 

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