NYS Non-Resident


JohnNY

New member
Just called Greene County Sheriffs Department. If you are a Greene County resident with a NYS pistol permit and move out of New York State you are allowed to keep your permit.
 

I would not believe that information you were given,

If you no longer have your primary residence in NY state and get a drivers license in another state regardless of what you were told You are no longer valid to hold a NYS CCW Permit. It would also not be the typical Judges infraction for carrying out of your restrictions it would be having a pistol with out a valid license and that's a pretty bad violation in NYS

They may have said they don't require you to surrender your license if you leave ,but the facts are clear, You must be a NYS resident to have a NYS CCW permit
 

JohnNY

New member
Here is the Greene county sheriffs #518-943-3300. Please call to verify for yourself.

I spoke to a detective at length who is in charge of the permits in Greene County. He stated it is solely up to the discretion of each county whether it is their policy to allow for their residents to keep a NYS pistol permit while moving to another state. You have to be a resident (ie driver's lic & registered voter) of Greene county for a minimum of six months prior to moving. Many counties of NYS don't allow this, such as Westchester and Dutchess. Ulster also allows for you to keep your NYS permit when moving out of state(as of 2 years ago). This I know for a fact, because I worked with someone who had a NYS pistol permit and than moved and became a permanent resident of SC and was able to keep his NYS permit. He visited months later and I saw his NYS permit with a Myrtle Beach, SC address. Ulster county has the new plastic permits so I new it wasn't a fake and I assume I wasn't blind. LOL
 

JohnNY

New member
Furthermore, I just reread the penal code § 400.00 and their is nothing in it that mentions the validity of a NYS permit when you are no longer a NYS resident, that is why some counties like Greene and Ulster are allowing residents of their counties to keep their NYS permits when moving permanently out of state. The penal code only mentions about NYS residency during the application process and nothing about change of address or residency.
 

BC1

,
Here is the Greene county sheriffs #518-943-3300. Please call to verify for yourself.

I spoke to a detective at length who is in charge of the permits in Greene County. He stated it is solely up to the discretion of each county whether it is their policy to allow for their residents to keep a NYS pistol permit while moving to another state. You have to be a resident (ie driver's lic & registered voter) of Greene county for a minimum of six months prior to moving. Many counties of NYS don't allow this, such as Westchester and Dutchess. Ulster also allows for you to keep your NYS permit when moving out of state(as of 2 years ago). This I know for a fact, because I worked with someone who had a NYS pistol permit and than moved and became a permanent resident of SC and was able to keep his NYS permit. He visited months later and I saw his NYS permit with a Myrtle Beach, SC address. Ulster county has the new plastic permits so I new it wasn't a fake and I assume I wasn't blind. LOL
This is partially correct. No county has the authority to allow you to keep a NYS CCW poermit once residency in another state is established. You must eventually surrender your CCW permit if you move out of the state. Or don't if you don't want to but the permit is no longer valid. You may keep a PREMISE PERMIT ONLY if you still maintain a business location in the state but the gun must be kept at the location. You may not carry it. NY will grant a premise permit to a non-resident who maintains a business location within the state. NY only grants CCW permits to residents. There are no non-resident CCW permits and no reciprocity with other states. No non-resident may carry a handgun in NYS unless traveling to or from a sanctioned event or class (NYS PL265.20). No county may deviate from NYS Penal law and offer a CCW to a non-resident. Period. I can't advise on your friend's permit other than to tell you something is wrong.

NYS Penal law 400.00:

3. Applications. (a) Applications shall be made and renewed, in the case of a license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, to the licensing officer in the city or county, as the case may be, where the applicant resides, is principally employed or has his principal place of business as merchant or storekeeper;

5. Upon application by a licensee who has changed his place of residence such records or applications shall be transferred to the appropriate officer at the licensee's new place of residence.

6. License: validity. No license shall be transferable to any other person or premises.

15. Any violation by any person of any provision of this section is a class A misdemeanor.

When you move, you should keep your NY permit for reciprocity with the new state of residence if accepted, until such time you are eligible for a resident permit there. After that either throw it away or return it to NY. You may request a premise permit for your pricipal place of business in NY by filing an application in the county of location of the business. If you file a change of address for a CCW and the address is out-of-state the permit will be revoked.

If you present a CCW license to any public official containing an address that you know to be false you have, with intent to deceive, committed the crime of...

S 175.30 Offering a false instrument for filing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of offering a false instrument for filing in the second degree when, knowing that a written instrument contains a false statement or false information, he offers or presents it to a public office or public servant with the knowledge or belief that it will be filed with, registered or recorded in or otherwise become a part of the records of such public office or public servant.

In NYS it is illegal for anyone to possess a loaded firearm at any time: NYS PL 265.02(4). Section 265.20 provides an exemption to charges of criminal possession of a weapon when a valid license is held in accordance with A400. Without a valid license or with a license containing a material false statement (address) you are not eligible for any exemption under PL 265.20. You will be arrested. This is verified by NYS case law.

If caught in carrying a concealed weapon in NYS with your old license you may be subject to...
- S265.02 - criminal possession of a weapon - C felony count (no exemption under 265.20(3))
- S400.00(15) - licensing - A misdemeanor count
- S174.30-35 - False instrument - up to an E felony count

Bottom line? You're going to jail. We've been in the permit business a long time with an attorney on-staff. He strongly recommends you not attempt to continue to carry without a valid license. The advice contained herein is absolutely correct. We find clerks in the permit departments and LEO don't know the law very well. But, feel free to test your theory. You'll be a NY resident again... for a minimum sentence of three years as a result.
 

JohnNY

New member
with all due respect what you have highlighted in bold, is the penal code referring to applicants of a NYS pistol permit, this has nothing to do with a NYS resident that has already been granted a NYS pistol permit.

Will the Ulster county clerk and judge that approved the keeping of the NYS permit with the new South Carolina address over two years go to jail than? I think not.

I am not sure what county you are from but, I suggest calling the Greene County Sheriffs office to verify for yourself. The Greene county office specifically stated that their is nothing in the penal code that specifys that a resident has to give up their NYS pistol permit when a NYS resident moves. Greene & Ulster County are therefore using that lack of specification in the penal code for their county residents who already have a NYS pistol permit in their counties and are moving out of New York State to reissue NYS permits with the new non NYS address. The Greene County Sheriffs office said that this is a fairly new interpretation of the penal code and they are following suite. As far as I know Green & Ulster Counties may be the only in the State that do this. I have called Westchester and Dutchess and they do not allow it.
 

BC1

,
with all due respect what you have highlighted in bold, is the penal code referring for applicants of a NYS pistol permit, this has nothing to do with a NYS resident that has already been granted a NYS pistol permit.

Will the Ulster county clerk and judge that approved the keeping of the NYS permit with the new South Carolina address over two years go to jail than? I think not.

I am not sure what county you are from but, I suggest calling the Greene County Sheriffs office to verify for yourself. The Greene county office specifically stated that their is nothing in the penal code that specifys that a resident has to give up their NYS pistol permit when a NYS resident moves. Greene & Ulster County are therefore using that lack of specification in the penal code for their county residents who already have a NYS pistol permit in their counties and are moving out of New York State to reissue NYS permits with the new non NYS address. The Greene County Sheriffs office said that this is a fairly new interpretation of the penal code and they are following suite. As far as I know Green & Ulster Counties may be the only in the State that do this. I have called Westchester and Dutchess and they do not allow it.
We're not interested in a specific county's opinion. He's not an attorney and should not be advising you on matters of law. i suggest you consult with an attorney specializing in NY firearm law. We provide services to residents of every county in NYS, including legal representation before the judges. You're looking for some encouragement that you can carry after losing residency and it's just not so. You cannot have a CCW in NYS unless you are a resident. Period. I gave you the sections of the penal law (not code) that apply to your situation. Reread this. It is very specific about residency and proper addresses.

3. Applications. (a) Applications shall be made and renewed, in the case of a license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, to the licensing officer in the city or county, as the case may be, where the applicant resides, is principally employed or has his principal place of business as merchant or storekeeper;

5. Upon application by a licensee who has changed his place of residence such records or applications shall be transferred to the appropriate officer at the licensee's new place of residence.

Par-3 states you must reside or do business in the state. Par-4 states you must file an amendment for change of address. When you file an address change out-of-state the permit will be revoked as you are no longer a resident. If you refer to 265.20(13-a) you will see that an exemption to a crimoinal possession of a weapon charge is are granted to a non-resident only when traveling for a sanctioned match or education.

Section 265.20 Exemptions
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 (criminal possession of a weapon) shall not apply to:

13-a. Except in cities not wholly contained within a single county of the state, possession of pistols and revolvers by a person who is a nonresident of this state while attending or traveling to or from, an organized convention or exhibition for the display of or education about firearms, which is conducted under auspices of, or approved by, the National Rifle Association and in which he is a registered participant, within forty-eight hours of such event, provided that he has not been previously convicted of a felony or a crime which, if committed in New York, would constitute a felony, and further provided that the pistols or revolvers are transported unloaded in a locked opaque container together with a copy of the convention or exhibition program, convention or exhibition schedule or convention or exhibition registration card. Such documentation shall constitute prima facie evidence of exemption, providing that such person also has in his possession a pistol license or firearms registration card issued in accordance with the laws of his place of residence. For purposes of this paragraph, a person licensed in a jurisdiction which does not authorize such license by a person who has been previously convicted of a felony shall be presumed to have no prior conviction. The superintendent of state police shall annually review the laws of jurisdictions within the United States and Canada with respect to the applicable requirements for licensing or registration of firearms and shall publish a list of those jurisdictions which prohibit possession of a firearm by a person previously convicted of a felony or crimes which if committed in New York state would constitute a felony.

This exemption would not read as stated if a non-resident could be exempt by having a permit as provided for residents in 265.20(3).

If you are stopped with a gun in NY and you produce that old permit you may get away if he doesn't check further ID. But if you use that gun in self defense and provide an out-of-state address for the police report, someone is going to ask why you are producing a false document to the LEO. You're going down at that point.

As far as ulster goes, I'm friends with Judge Cahill and have discussed this topic with him in the past as we are the largest permit service organization South of Albany.

Just follow the advice. After you get residency in your new state file an amendment for address change and you'll see I'm correct. I don't usually respond with so much data but I'm trying to keep you from making a grave error. There is absolutely no chance I'm wrong on this issue.
 

BC1

,
@BCI

Bottom line what I have said is fact
All my education and I can't help those who choose to remain ignorant. A smart man takes the advice of those who know the subject matter. You'll understand when you file the address change and it's revoked. Otherwise you'll find out if you're indicted on PL 265.02 and 175.30. We'll contact the Greene County sheriff next week. If he advises incorrectly we'll notify the solicitor general of his actions. We take this very seriously. Can't have this mutt running around giving out legal advice.
 

JohnNY

New member
@BCI

I'm going on fact.

1. In approximately January of 2009 a fellow worker of mine who lived in ulster county and had a NYS permit issued by ulster county MOVED out of state

2. he is now a resident of Myrtle Beach South Carolina

3. immediately upon moving he filed an amendment to the Ulster County Clerks office

4. He was issued an UPDATED NYS permit with his new South Carolina address.

5. the ULUSTER COUNTY JUDGE at the time approved the out of state address

6. I SAW the new permit with my eyes......i'm sure if push comes to shove I can contact him and have him send me a photo of it, and forward it to you so you believe me

7. I am not making these facts up
 

JohnNY

New member
265.20(3) "exemptions" says nothing about residency, it refers to Penal code 400.00, which is the application process. The application process states that you must be a resident.

I'm not sure how long Judge Cahill has been their, I believe their may have been a switch in judges in the last few years who now do not allow this. But I REPEAT I saw my former co-workers NYS ULSTER issued permit with a Myrtle Beach address.
 

trophyhunter

New member
Johnny,

I dont think anyone here is doubting what you were told, or what you seen with your own eyes.

It's just that I(we) never heard of such a thing, and just because you (we) never heard of it doesnt mean it isn't correct but giving New Yorks States Regulations on pistol permits which are the strictest in the nation.

I would contact someone higher up than an Sheriff better to error on the side of caution. But from everything I read NYS does not issue or allow Non residents an permit.
Good luck on your journey
 

willyNH

New member
I asked the issuing officer, in writing, as nicely as possible to change the address on my license to NH. I based my argument upon the exceptions within the penal code. He did not agree and I surrendered my license. (Cortland)

Bummer, but not in jail. IF I ever find myself living in your God forsaken state again, at least I have a clean, amiable history of responsible handgun ownership in ny to show on my application.

-Matt
 

JohnNY

New member
trophyhunter

thank you for giving me some benefit of the doubt. I did not believe it either when my co-worker said he was allowed to keep his Ulster county NYS permit when he moved to SC in 2009. However, when I saw with my own eyes his newly-plastic printed permit from Ulster county with the South Carolina address I was amazed. Like I said as far as I know only Greene and Ulster do this. Ulster may be different now I believe they might have a new stricter judge?. Anyway I as I am only 45 I have no plans of moving out of state for retirement anytime soon so this does not effect me I am only passing along this information in case anybody from Greene or Ulster decide to move and maybe we can lobby other counties to allow this transfer of address too.
 

JohnNY

New member
A follow up.

I just got off the phone with the Ulster County Sheriffs Department. I spoke to someone who deals with the pistol permits. I discussed the issue of moving out of state and keeping your NYS pistol permit. She said currently their are 3 judges that deal with the pistol permits. She said it it solely up to the judge whether to allow the keeping of the NYS permit when moving out of state. Currently she said 2 out of the 3 judges allow for this. She said " it is the luck of the draw on which judge you get". She specifically stated that Judge Williams allows for this. Also she stated that a Judge Bruin did this before retiring a few years ago. She also said a few years back that the State Police up in Albany questioned why some of their Ulster county pistol permits had out of state addresses. She told them that the Judge in Ulster County had signed off on this. The State Police have not questioned them anymore. To me we should now elect judges who will allow for this transfer.

I hope BCI apologizes to me for calling me ignorant LOL :)
 

BC1

,
OK, I contacted everyone in the Hudson valley. Here's the results.

Orange County, NY
OC supervisor of permits for the county sheriff (Lilian - 845-291-3060) explaned you may not posses a CCW permit in NY once you establish residency elsewhere. If you are caught with a handgun in NYS you will be charged (this is 265.02 - C Felony). NY will only issue a premise permit for a business owner who is not a resident of the state provided he keeps the gun at the NY location. They even asked for your name if I knew it.

Ulster County
Judge Chris Cahill (845-340-3377) re-iterated that no non-resident will be allowed a CCW permit. Verified that 400.00(3) prohibits a non-resident from obtaining such unless he requests a premise permit. Advised strongly against this.

Dutchess County
Discussed this at length with Crystal (845-486-3898). In order to keep your CCW permit in NYS you must maintain a residence for a minimum of six months per year. A non-resident may apply for a premise permit if he owns a place of business and the gun must be kept at that location. it cannot be carried. Pistol permit address transfers are available only from county to county. No change of address to an out-of-state address will be honored for a CCW permit.

Greene County
Sgt. Bolls was not available until later today. Officer on duty stated you can apply but the permit will be revoked. Sgt. Bolls will call me when he returns. If he states you can keep your permit we'll call the sheriff to report him.

Our attoney laughed and asked "why do you converse with these people. Just let him get busted." Ignorance is not an insult, it's a failure to recognize truth in the face of overwhelming proof. Learn from our knowledge and experience. That's why we contribute to USA Carry... to make sure people follow the law and rules of safety. Our sole purpose to protect against arrest, injury or otherwise.
 

trophyhunter

New member
JohnNY,

After I read BC1 recent reply I did some Investigating on my own.
What I found out,BC1 is 100% correct in his findings New York State will not issue Non Resident Pistol Permits, and if you are caught Carrying south you will be charged with an Felony.

I dont know how your friend received an NYS pistol permit with an SC address
 

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