NRA says Open Carry Texas demonstrations 'downright scary'

Been saying it for years. OC is one thing. It's legal so enjoy and carry-on. But the AR thing freaks out the general public. Not just anti-gunners but those without an opinion. Such demonstrations have a negative impact on those who haven't made-up their mind.
.
If I were a business owner (store) and someone enters OC I don't care. But a couple guys carrying AR's are getting ejected. Not because I'm anti-gun. I prefer they take their business elsewhere before they cost me customers who are afraid. As a store owner I wouldn't be doing business only with people who aren't afraid of guns. People need to stop dragging business owners into their fight. If someone owns a bakery it's the bakery that pays their bills, feeds their families and gives them a retirement someday. That has to be the owners priority... unless he wants to tie his business success to the second amendment. But he shouldn't be put in such a position.
 
Agreed!

A holstered handgun vs. some guy with a "look at me" stupid grin and a AR15 in his hands are two totally different situations.

If I were a business owner, I would CC, if someone came in with a OC holstered handgun, I would say "welcome, how can I help you", if someone came in with an AR15 in hand my first thought would be WTF, and ask them to take it outside.

Then probably design and print a "No Long Guns Permitted" sign for the door.

Link Removed
These jackwagons are only fueling the fire for the anti crowd.
 
This is a post that I made on Sipsey Street Irregulars blog last night concerning this same story, except Mike used a different source. It was prompted by a bunch of posts before it that were much less polite than BC1's above, but with mostly the same basic stances expressed nonetheless. The only difference is that many of the slams were against OC in general, and not limited just to the long guns being carried in the Chipotle incident, so kudos to BC for that much consideration of the issue(s).

Mike allows a little stronger language than our little corner of the internet does, so I will try to edit it so that there aren't a bunch of "*****" throughout the post, but will leave in what I think pushes a point as strongly as I believe is necessary to get my points across.

CzarChasmIII said...

Mike, I must ask your indulgence for a few moments. I try not to use your site to argue with other of your readers, but this stuff just drives me crazy.

First, considering that this whole hoopla started because of a picture from a Dallas Chipotle, and Bloomberg's Mommies trolling their FaceBook page for "incriminating" pictures to use as nothing more than dishonest propaganda, it is clearly y'all b!tchin' about those guys carrying their weapons who are hurting the cause. You're succumbing to the Mommies' propaganda campaign and fighting against brother and sister gun owners instead of our true enemies, the gun-grabbers of America.

Second, it would behoove you to conduct a minimal investigation into what actually happened before spewing what is so obviously ignorant and wrong rants against the OC'ers. Listen up:

THEY WERE INVITED TO BE THERE BY STORE MANAGEMENT!!!

They weren't forcing their demonstrations on anyone. They had been to that exact location many times before, had always sought and received permission from management before entering, and were never once asked by the store to leave. It was the Mommies who went to Corporate who turned this into any kind of "controversy" at all. Congratulations! You've been freakin' duped by a bunch of soccer moms who are new to the gun-grabber scene and have manipulated all you big, tough guys into wetting your freakin' panties at the sight of free men carrying their weapons out in front of God and everybody! Damn! What a bunch of freakin' *******!

What most of you dumb asses probably don't know either, is that it is illegal in TX to OC a handgun. The local Chipotle manager was on the side of the demonstrators for many months prior to this thing exploding into a national story that you idiots have been manipulated by hook, line and sinker. The manager's Corporate bosses brought the hammer down, and s/he was left with no choice but to abide by that corporate decision, but s/he is most likely still on the side of the demonstrators, and you guys can't even muster the courage to give him/her just a little bit of cover along with people who are actively demonstrating for their rights to OC handguns instead of long guns.

You supposed "patriots" make me sick. You've shown as much guts and loyalty to the 2nd Amendment and Constitution as a bunch of gun-grabbing soccer moms have.

One last thing: I open carry for the tactical advantage. I conceal carried for 35 years before realizing that if I'm attacked, I'm already behind the curve before I have to react by drawing my weapon. My open carried weapon says to anybody who thinks I'm going to be a willing victim, "Think again *******." That "element of surprise" bovine excrement is just that; bovine excrement. I surprise potential attackers with being openly armed. You surprise them after an attack has already commenced and you're behind the tactical curve. I choose the preemptive surprise, rather than the reactive, behind-the-curve surprise.

My apologies Mike. I won't make rants a habit, but sometimes the circular firing squad that gun owners are so anxious to form up around drives me to it. God Bless, I hope you're doing well.

CzarChasmIII
June 3, 2014 at 6:30 PM
Click to expand...

It is no surprise to me at all that the N R A is wetting their panties after being manipulated by a bunch of gun-grabbing soccer moms either. I'm surprised it took them this long to let the piss start flowin'.

Blues
 
Unless your some "Ranch Hand" out in Montana or someplace, riding the fence line on you horse with your Winchester in a scabbard, & you decide to ride into town for a burger, there are very few reasons to OC a long gun.
I can seee why some would try to use OC of long guns as a tool to get OC of Handguns, but this could backfire & they could lose OC of everything.
Michigan is a traditional Open Carry State. But we still have a ways to go. But, these things take time, Small baby steps...........
 
missoak said:
Unless your some "Ranch Hand" out in Montana or someplace, riding the fence line on you horse with your Winchester in a scabbard, & you decide to ride into town for a burger, there are very few reasons to OC a long gun.
I can seee why some would try to use OC of long guns as a tool to get OC of Handguns, but this could backfire & they could lose OC of everything.
Michigan is a traditional Open Carry State. But we still have a ways to go. But, these things take time, Small baby steps...........
Click to expand...
I can think of an extremely VALID one (reason).....I EFFING WANT TO........... So take your anti-gun bias elsewhere....
 
So you're like the little kid kicking & screaming 'cause Mommie won't buy you some candy?
I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population. The people
that don't care about guns do not understand why we can be so passionate about this. We need to
show them some respect if we want to convert them.
So next time you're out carrying your Ar or whatever & some one asks you why, Just say" I
Effing want to" !. See how positive a reaction you get.
 
missoak said:
So you're like the little kid kicking & screaming 'cause Mommie won't buy you some candy?
I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population. The people
that don't care about guns do not understand why we can be so passionate about this. We need to
show them some respect if we want to convert them.
So next time you're out carrying your Ar or whatever & some one asks you why, Just say" I
Effing want to" !. See how positive a reaction you get.
Click to expand...
Wow, where to begin.... how about this one that covers everything you cannot seem to comprehend: My right to exercise ANY of my constitutional rights any effing way I want to has zero, zilch, nada to do with what you or others think about it, period, end of effing story.....

YOU really, really, REALLY need to learn some more about rights before you go spouting off your mouth any more... BTW... fighting for more compromises (like you are so proud of doing) is NOT fighting for the 2nd amendment...
 
Axeanda45 said:
I can think of an extremely VALID one (reason).....I EFFING WANT TO........... So take your anti-gun bias elsewhere....
Click to expand...

Er, two... I believe that's all they're allowed to OC in Texas. So if they want to do any open carry demonstrations, that's what they have to carry.

Granted, a business or restaurant is not where I would choose to do that! It seems a bit cumbersome to try to eat with a long gun. I also don't have the time or patience to deal with any Mom's Demand idiots, nor do I want to in any way encourage (whether I do it myself by being there or, more likely, my being there prompts someone else to throw a fit and do the "encouraging") a business to get involved or tempt them to ban guns just so they don't have to deal with them either.
 
This issue will most likely come up soon in the Texas legislature.
I wish them well, I enjoy the freedom of OC if I choose to use it.
"I Effing want to" would not be a wise reason for them to consider
OC of handguns.
 
I include the map link for reference.
Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
Consider this: Open carry of handguns is illegal in Texas. Open carry of long guns IS legal. Considering this, and knowing that the goal is to get a law passed to permit open carry of handguns, what have they done wrong? They have not stated their goal as simply as I just have.
 
missoak said:
I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population.
Click to expand...

We are not a small percentage by any stretch of the imagination. If all you're referring to is OC'ers, I'll cede that point, but you said you're not "anti anything" after Axe (incorrectly I believe) accused you of having an anti-gun bias, so I'm taking this as applying to pro-gunners being a "very small percentage" of the overall population. The research is not on your side on that statement.

* Several polls show that Americans are very pro-gun. Several scientific polls indicate that the right to keep and bear arms is still revered—and gun control disdained—by a majority of Americans today. To mention just a few recent polls:

* In 2002, an ABC News poll found that almost three-fourths of the American public believe that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of "individuals" to own guns.(12)

* Zogby pollsters found that by a more than 3 to 1 margin, Americans support punishing "criminals who use a gun in the commission of a crime" over legislation to "ban handguns."(13)

* A Research 2000 poll found that 85% of Americans would find it appropriate for a principal or teacher to use "a gun at school to defend the lives of students" to stop a school massacre.(14)
​

Now, those numbers represent sentiment among the general population, whether or not the respondents are gun owners themselves.

Another source shows that 40% - 45% of American households own guns, so while a minority percentage of households own guns, it is hardly a "very small percentage" who would be predisposed to be pro-gun. Combined with the stats from the first source, the smallest percentage can be found in the anti-gun sentiment among Americans.

* As of 2009, the United States has a population of 307 million people.[5]

* Based on production data from firearm manufacturers,[6] there are roughly 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States as of 2010. Of these, about 100 million are handguns.[7]

* Based upon surveys, the following are estimates of private firearm ownership in the U.S. as of 2010:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Households With a Gun[/TD]
[TD] Adults Owning a Gun[/TD]
[TD] Adults Owning a Handgun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Percentage[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 40-45%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 30-34%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 17-19%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Number[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 47-53 million[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 70-80 million[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 40-45 million[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[8]

​
* A 2005 nationwide Gallup poll of 1,012 adults found the following levels of firearm ownership:


​
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Category[/TD]
[TD]
Percentage Owning​
a Firearm​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Households[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 42%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Individuals[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Male[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 47%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Female[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 13%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] White[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 33%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Nonwhite[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 18%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Republican[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 41%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Independent[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 27%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Democrat[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 23%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[9]
​


This is not in response to whatever you want to call it going on between you and Axe, it is only in reply to your statement about the percentage of pro-gun Americans. I have no axe to grind with anyone who prefers CC over OC, I just have a problem when myths and misinformation are used to justify such preferences.

I understand that "we" as gun owners and/or 2nd Amendment supporters (not necessarily all in the same group) have differences in how best to assert "our" rights while promoting a positive image for "ourselves." The very fact that I acknowledge those differences though, renders moot the notion that there even is a monolithic "we" or "us" or "our" to be discussed. I'm not a "Because I effin want to" kinda guy, but I have very little tolerance for pushy CC-only people telling me how hard I'm making it for the "real" 2nd Amendment supporters who all "know" that OC hurts "our" cause. What hurts "our" cause more than any single thing "we" do is when we fight amongst ourselves over things that amount to nothing more than personal preferences.

I'm also not a long gun OC guy, but then, my state doesn't force me to choose between OC'ing long guns or not OC'ing at all, so I have refrained from commenting negatively on the TX demonstrators whose state has forced that choice upon them. They can conduct their demonstrations simply because they effin want to do it the way they're doing it, or they can chat it up with all the locals they come into contact with and try to calmly and politely explain why they're doing what they're doing. Either way, it's their demonstrations, not "ours," so I've got nothing to say one way or the other about it.

And if I do decide to comment on the prudence or imprudence of their demonstrations, I will be very careful not to make statements of fact that I can't back up with both source and statistical data from which to draw my conclusions.

Blues
 
whodat2710 said:
I include the map link for reference.
Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
Consider this: Open carry of handguns is illegal in Texas. Open carry of long guns IS legal. Considering this, and knowing that the goal is to get a law passed to permit open carry of handguns, what have they done wrong? They have not stated their goal as simply as I just have.
Click to expand...

Link Removed, it's just that no one wants to go find the truth before they spout off about the "right" way to go about conducting demonstrations concerning OC. So many of "us" separate "ourselves" from those who don't do things *our* way. I am not among "them," and it doesn't sound like you are either, but the fact that so few media outlets are even willing to give voice to the TX OC'ers so they can explain their position(s) is why you perceive that they're not trying. As far as I know, that interview that I linked to is the only media who would touch the subject, and even then, if you listen to Link Removed, you'll likely agree that the host has a pronounced anti-OC bent.

Blues
 
Blues,
Regarding your polls and numbers, the only problem I have with them is that they are a polls, surveys etc. Even looking at gun sales numbers directly from the manufacturers, you cant tell that I own more than several guns (handguns, shotgun, rifles) and in any given poll, people lie.
 
whodat2710 said:
Blues,
Regarding your polls and numbers, the only problem I have with them is that they are a polls, surveys etc. Even looking at gun sales numbers directly from the manufacturers, you cant tell that I own more than several guns (handguns, shotgun, rifles) and in any given poll, people lie.
Click to expand...

First, they aren't "my" polls and numbers.

Second, if you've got something more than a hunch that those statistics are wrong, then present your evidence. At the very least, they serve to suggest that pro-gun sentiment is hardly a "very small percentage" of the population, and that's the only statement I used the links to refute.

I'm a chronic cynic, but even I wouldn't claim stats that purport to be compiled from several different studies is necessarily the result of respondents being liars. Your "problem" with the polls and numbers is sourced entirely from your imagination. The links both cite sources as several different "studies." I'm goin' with them until I'm presented some valid reason to question them.

Blues
 
When I said we were a small percentage, I was referring to Carriers, CC or OC. Not gun OWNERS. Almost eveyone I know OWNS at least one gun.
Very few of them have carry permits, & NONE OC. But that's just my small circle of friends, family & neighbors. I'm not basing my statement on any poll. Just
by what I experience.
Mi. population is around 10M, CPL's around 400k. Is that not a small percentage?
 
missoak said:
When I said we were a small percentage, I was referring to Carriers, CC or OC. Not gun OWNERS. Almost eveyone I know OWNS at least one gun.
Very few of them have carry permits, & NONE OC. But that's just my small circle of friends, family & neighbors. I'm not basing my statement on any poll. Just
by what I experience.
Mi. population is around 10M, CPL's around 400k. Is that not a small percentage?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I only responded to what you said, not what you apparently meant that you didn't say.

I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population.
Click to expand...
 
If I had to choose a side on the chipotle incident, it will be the gun owners side...not the MDA's side...it's sad to see so many choosing MDA'S side...

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
BluesStringer said:
First, they aren't "my" polls and numbers.

Second, if you've got something more than a hunch that those statistics are wrong, then present your evidence. At the very least, they serve to suggest that pro-gun sentiment is hardly a "very small percentage" of the population, and that's the only statement I used the links to refute.

I'm a chronic cynic, but even I wouldn't claim stats that purport to be compiled from several different studies is necessarily the result of respondents being liars. Your "problem" with the polls and numbers is sourced entirely from your imagination. The links both cite sources as several different "studies." I'm goin' with them until I'm presented some valid reason to question them.

Blues
Click to expand...

Polls, quite simply are mostly bunk. It depends entirely on what is asked and how it is worded.
-
Ask 100 people if they would support a law that makes them safer, 90%,or more would say yes. Ask those same people if they would support a law for more gun restrictions and the number changes. Libs would argue that it is the same question, or restrict their polling to areas where they can predict the results, all to try and change the mind of people on the fence.
 
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