No guns in church?

[Sassy Belle]

Texas doesn't allow you to carry in church. What if you are employed by the church? I work for a small church and I'm often there by myself. My office is next to the front glass doors. There are quite a few people wanting money and other stuff. I currently keep the doors locked but when someone knocks I have to open it. The pastor is extremely liberal and I haven't even told him I have my CHL. Am I just SOL?

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[cougar98332]

that sucks. i carry at church, there is no law against it here in wa. that and i live in a more rural area, so im not alone, lot of hunters, cc'ers, and such.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Texas doesn't allow you to carry in church. What if you are employed by the church? I work for a small church and I'm often there by myself. My office is next to the front glass doors. There are quite a few people wanting money and other stuff. I currently keep the doors locked but when someone knocks I have to open it. The pastor is extremely liberal and I haven't even told him I have my CHL. Am I just SOL?

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If your Pastor is a LibTard (Liberal) then he is assisting/promoting Satan's work imvho.
Leave that so called 'church' a.s.a.p. if you have any shred of self-respect and love of the truth.

 

[hestes]

I believe the church carry is kind of a gray area in Texas. If you read go to page 38 on the link I will post below, it talks about unlawful carry and mentions churches. However, if you keep reading down to page 39, it says the following: "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06." Churches are mentioned in section (b)(6). The way our instructor explained it to us was that the wording meant that you COULD carry in a church unless there was a 30.06 sign. It is very confusing either way. I wish they would clean it up and make it more clear.

Link Removed (It says 2012, but that is what is listed on the Texas DPS site)

I am NOT a Lawyer, so if you do decide to carry in church, it is at your own risk. I'm just sharing MY interpretation of the way the law is written.

 

[wvrider]

If you do decide to carry it, be careful if you carry in church to conceal well. I end up getting hugged or bumped a lot before service and it is quite obvious if someone is firearm aware. Also never let it leave your side (e.g. in a jacket pocket) because of the presence of young kids.

My pocket holster works best for those times with my small revolver. No one touches you below the waistline (at least I hope not). I don't like pocket carry but I use it as an option when I know these situations will arise frequently. I usually have a larger pistol on me IWB but I am usually quick to put my arm down when I know those times are coming when someone will get close. Nonetheless, people have bumped it before, but 99% of people would think it is my cell phone.

I'm at church a lot but thank God we have no laws in our state. Folks may not have to worry about church but what happens to the miles of road in between, the stops at gas stations, stores, parks, or whatever else goes on in your life on those days. Ugh, I'll stop ranting now =)

 

[NavyLCDR]

Texas doesn't allow you to carry in church. What if you are employed by the church? I work for a small church and I'm often there by myself. My office is next to the front glass doors. There are quite a few people wanting money and other stuff. I currently keep the doors locked but when someone knocks I have to open it. The pastor is extremely liberal and I haven't even told him I have my CHL. Am I just SOL?

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Did the church give or post the notice that no firearms are allowed required by Texas law section 30.06? If not, then you are legal to carry there (don't ask, don't tell):

PENAL CODE**CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

PENAL CODE**CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I believe the church carry is kind of a gray area in Texas. If you read go to page 38 on the link I will post below, it talks about unlawful carry and mentions churches. However, if you keep reading down to page 39, it says the following: "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06." Churches are mentioned in section (b)(6). The way our instructor explained it to us was that the wording meant that you COULD carry in a church unless there was a 30.06 sign. It is very confusing either way. I wish they would clean it up and make it more clear.

Link Removed (It says 2012, but that is what is listed on the Texas DPS site)

I am NOT a Lawyer, so if you do decide to carry in church, it is at your own risk. I'm just sharing MY interpretation of the way the law is written.

Why does it need to be cleaned up? The law is already very specific. As the law is written now, if the church does not want to prohibit firearms, they are not required to. No sign or other notice given according to section 30.06 means that carry in the church is legal. As it is written now, carrying a firearm in a church is legal by default, unless the church decides they wish to actively prohibit firearms. Seems like that is a pretty good deal to me. The current requirement requires the state to prove that the church gave legal notice.

 

[Sassy Belle]

I will read the law more in depth. I don't worship at that church. I just work there. So I feel like its half church half work place. The fact that I'm there by myself a lot is really the reason I started the ball rolling on my CHL.


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[RB522]

I carry in church. It is legal here so long as the church doesn't have a sign on the door. My pastor hides a Walther under his robes, and most of the elders are armed as well. We are only about 20 miles from the Sikk temple , and do not want such an incident to happen here.

 

[Walter Merkle]

I believe the church carry is kind of a gray area in Texas. If you read go to page 38 on the link I will post below, it talks about unlawful carry and mentions churches. However, if you keep reading down to page 39, it says the following: "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06." Churches are mentioned in section (b)(6). The way our instructor explained it to us was that the wording meant that you COULD carry in a church unless there was a 30.06 sign. It is very confusing either way. I wish they would clean it up and make it more clear.

Link Removed (It says 2012, but that is what is listed on the Texas DPS site)

I am NOT a Lawyer, so if you do decide to carry in church, it is at your own risk. I'm just sharing MY interpretation of the way the law is written.

They did go back and clean it up :smile: That's what you're reading on page 39.

 

[wolf_fire]

Texas doesn't allow you to carry in church. What if you are employed by the church? I work for a small church and I'm often there by myself. My office is next to the front glass doors. There are quite a few people wanting money and other stuff. I currently keep the doors locked but when someone knocks I have to open it. The pastor is extremely liberal and I haven't even told him I have my CHL. Am I just SOL?

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Give your pastor a Bible lesson and tell him to read Luke 22, specifically these verses:

36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’b ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

38The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

Jesus knew that the disciples would be in danger and needed to protect themselves. The common defensive weapon at the time, a sword.

 

[hestes]

Why does it need to be cleaned up? The law is already very specific. As the law is written now, if the church does not want to prohibit firearms, they are not required to. No sign or other notice given according to section 30.06 means that carry in the church is legal. As it is written now, carrying a firearm in a church is legal by default, unless the church decides they wish to actively prohibit firearms. Seems like that is a pretty good deal to me. The current requirement requires the state to prove that the church gave legal notice.

I just think the way it is written that it is a very common misconception that you can't carry in a church, period. I know several people who took the CHL class here in Texas that didn't know it was legal as long as a 30.06 sign wasn't posted. The law says you can't...oh wait, you can unless it's posted. Why say you can't at all? Why not just say you can unless there is a 30.06 posted? Why specifically mention churches, etc? That is the only reason I think it could be cleaned up a bit.

 

[hestes]

They did go back and clean it up :smile: That's what you're reading on page 39.

lol, TRUE, but I think they could just remove the references to churches and the other specific places if they fall under the same 30.06 rules as everywhere else. I guess it confuses people that haven't sat down and read it all...which they all should, but we know they don't.

 

[SR9]

I carry in my church. I talked to one of the Pastors and he (being a former Marine) said he didn't mind and knew of several others that carried there also. Most people would not think of carrying in church, but that makes them easy pickings like the Sikk Church in Wisconsin. Not going to happen in our church, if I and the others can help it.

 

[Sassy Belle]

So my interpretation is that unless there is a 30.06 sign at the church, it is legal for me to carry. That makes me feel much better.


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[NavyLCDR]

So my interpretation is that unless there is a 30.06 sign at the church, it is legal for me to carry. That makes me feel much better.


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Not exactly. Unless you have received notification that conforms to 30.06 that firerarms are prohibited at the church, it is legal for you to carry. There are other forms of notification that meet the requirements of 30.06, including oral notification. They do have to actively notify you, though, that firearms are prohibited, otherwise it is legal for you to carry there.

 

[ezkl2230]

In MI it is illegal to OC in churches unless you have your CPL (MI is an OC state, except in gun free zones; the CPL allows you to OC in a legally designated gun free zone - yeah, I know, it's screwy), and you can't legally CC in church "... unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility." The other caveat to this law is that even OC can be prohibited in a church if they post themselves as gun free zones, because churches are private property.

When I discuss this with people, I point them back to 1 Chronicles 9, which records King David and the prophet Samuel setting up the gatekeepers of the temple, who were armed, and I point to Luke 22:36, where Jesus commanded his disciples to arm themselves for their own protection.

 

[BC1]

Can someone explain why church carry is illegal? Makes no sense at all.

 

[mappow]

I've always CC'd in church. Not going to meet Jesus in church by the hands of a thug thinking a church is a easy mark. Or if I do at the hands of a thug. The fires of hell and gun powder will be blazing away by my .45. I will not die on my knees.

 

[ezkl2230]

Can someone explain why church carry is illegal? Makes no sense at all.

It goes back to the days when no one would dare attack a church. A church is supposed to be a place of peace and safety, and there is still the idea that carrying a firearm in church somehow desecrates it. These days, however, with so many people disillusioned, they are looming for ways to strike back at God for their lot in life. The courts have ruled that you cannot sue God, so these people strike at the most obvious representation of God - the Church. There were 145 church shootings last year, up from about 90 the previous year. I'm not sure what the number stands at so far this year. Regardless, the law is based on a society that no longer exists.