No guns allowed signs

[Bikenut]

I still think this is a moot point. If you carry concealed, and conceal it like you should, why even bother with signs? Nobody will know, therefore no harm done.

But if you sneak your gun into/onto private property and don't get caught someone still knows you did it. You know you disrespected someone else's property rights.

Personal integrity means doing the right thing even when no one would know except you.

 

[JeanP]

Always respect the property rights of others. However, that being said, I just don't patronize businesses where they don't allow concealed carry. They don't need my money.

 

[WmGardner]

But if you sneak your gun into/onto private property and don't get caught someone still knows you did it. You know you disrespected someone else's property rights.

Personal integrity means doing the right thing even when no one would know except you.

Agreed. While I gave a hypothetical of a situation where I needed to enter but had no option of securing my weapon, I was NOT condoning ignoring signs (to me, leaving the weapon unsecure poses the greater risk).

We must hold ourselves to a high standard. They don’t want our weapons inside? That’s their right as a property owner.


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[XD40scinNC]

But if you sneak your gun into/onto private property and don't get caught someone still knows you did it. You know you disrespected someone else's property rights.

Personal integrity means doing the right thing even when no one would know except you.

I see your point if you are entering a small independent business owned by an individual or family. Think restaurant, hardware store, etc.

Entering a corporate owned business owned by stock holders, exactly who is this "someone else's" property rights?

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
But if you sneak your gun into/onto private property and don't get caught someone still knows you did it. You know you disrespected someone else's property rights.

Personal integrity means doing the right thing even when no one would know except you.

I see your point if you are entering a small independent business owned by an individual or family. Think restaurant, hardware store, etc.

Entering a corporate owned business owned by stock holders, exactly who is this "someone else's" property rights?

It would be the stockholders since each stockholder owns a portion of the private property called a corporation.

There are only two catagories for property. Either the property is owned by some level of government or it is owned by private individuals. Doesn't matter if the property is owned by one person or by several thousand owners (stockholders).

The confusion sometimes comes in where private property is open to the public. But open to the public does not mean all members of the pubic are allowed to enter. Open to the public means the private property owner(s) are giving permission to enter only to those members of the public who agree to the rules/policies that govern who/how the property may be used. Those who do not agree do not have permission.

Example:

A grocery store, owned by one person or a part of a corporation owned by stockholders, is open to the public for the purpose of allowing the individual members of the public to buy groceries. It is not open to members of the public who wish to exercise their freedom of religion by giving a sermon in the frozen foods aisle unless the property owner(s) allow sermons in the store. And so it is with guns also.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/trespass

trespass

Enter someone's land or property without permission.

The act of trespass is entering without permission. Like bringing a gun into/onto private property where the owner's rule/policy says those with guns are not welcome.

When, how, and what kind of punishment depends on the trespass laws of the individual States. But trespass doesn't start when someone is asked to leave. If a person is being asked to leave they have been caught already in the act of trespassing.

 

[Eidolon]

What are these "no guns" signs that you speak of?

 

[croute]

There can be a difference in the law for Federal buildings and State laws for State buildings and for local laws (ordinances) government buildings.

In Michigan it is legal to carry a gun into county and township government buildings (as long as there isn't a court or court offices therein) and even the State Capitol building including into the offices of Representatives and Senators.

Michigan also has a law that prevents local units of government from passing laws or ordinances more strict than existing State law.

I would strongly suggest researching the applicable laws in your own State and the Federal laws too.

I'm from Michigan as well and never knew that. It was my understanding from the CPL class that all government buildings are off limits. Guess I was misinformed.

 

[WmGardner]

I'm from Michigan as well and never knew that. It was my understanding from the CPL class that all government buildings are off limits. Guess I was misinformed.

Most, if not all, are in WI too. However, that is because The State has laws forbidding in many/all state offices and most/all counties have followed suit.

MI may have a local, state-level law, which bans weapons from any governmental building, to include the municipal level. It is worth reviewing your state’s “prohibited areas” as well as your municipal ordinances.


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[XD40scinNC]

Forgot to add: The sign must be posted at EVERY entrance. Example: A Movie has three entrances: 2 from outside (which are posted) and one thru the Mall, which is not posted, then, the facility is not posted. If you enter the Mall (which is not posted) and enter the Movie where there is no sign; It is not posted.

I know some states have specific signs that must be posted to be effective, but my state does not.

I seldom go to the mall, but when I have there is a huge sign with all the rules of the mall, such as no solicitation, unaccompanied teens after a certain time, pets, assistance dogs, skate boards, etc. etc., probably 12 - 15 different rules. One would have to stand there for 2 - 3 minutes to read it all, and if there is a restriction of weapons, it is not conspicuously posted as state law requires.

 

[Bikenut]

Most, if not all, are in WI too. However, that is because The State has laws forbidding in many/all state offices and most/all counties have followed suit.

MI may have a local, state-level law, which bans weapons from any governmental building, to include the municipal level. It is worth reviewing your state’s “prohibited areas” as well as your municipal ordinances.


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Michigan has the following law commonly referred to as the pre emption law:

Michigan Legislature - Section 123.1102

FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)
Act 319 of 1990


123.1102 Regulation of pistols, other firearms, pneumatic guns, or ammunition.

Sec. 2.

A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols, other firearms, or pneumatic guns, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

So any local ordinances/laws that regulate the keeping and/or bearing of arms more strictly than State and/or Federal law are illegal ordinances/laws.

 

[mudshark100]

In South Carolina, it is not against the law to carry in a bank unless it is properly posted.

 

[Rivoak]

In South Carolina, it is not against the law to carry in a bank unless it is properly posted.

True. It should be said somewhere in here though that federal buildings don’t have to post if it is illegal to carry in them. State law has no effect on that. For instance, get caught with a gun in a post office, permit or not, get charged with a federal crime.


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[Hatchetman]

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap from some who claim "property rights" only for a select few, and not others.... I have the absolute RIGHT to carry my PROPERTY (in this case, my firearm) anywhere I damn well please.... anyone else trying to infinge on my RIGHT to do so isnt respecting MY RIGHTS, so I have no obligation to follow any of their rules...

 

[WmGardner]

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap from some who claim "property rights" only for a select few, and not others.... I have the absolute RIGHT to carry my PROPERTY (in this case, my firearm) anywhere I damn well please.... anyone else trying to infinge on my RIGHT to do so isnt respecting MY RIGHTS, so I have no obligation to follow any of their rules...

Well, that will sure make friends and not make us seem like some sort of angry rogue element who cares nothing about how our actions affect others (granted, emotionally, if discovered, in this case). Frankly, you do a disservice to the entire CCW community with that attitude. The world is bigger than you and what YOU want. If you disagree with the policy, take your business elsewhere.


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[NavyLCDR]

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap from some who claim "property rights" only for a select few, and not others.... I have the absolute RIGHT to carry my PROPERTY (in this case, my firearm) anywhere I damn well please.... anyone else trying to infinge on my RIGHT to do so isnt respecting MY RIGHTS, so I have no obligation to follow any of their rules...

Guess you've never heard of trespassing. You have no right to be on my property, PERIOD, let alone bring whatever you damn well please onto it.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap from some who claim "property rights" only for a select few, and not others.... I have the absolute RIGHT to carry my PROPERTY (in this case, my firearm) anywhere I damn well please.... anyone else trying to infinge on my RIGHT to do so isnt respecting MY RIGHTS, so I have no obligation to follow any of their rules...

Enter my property with a gun, against my will, expect to be met with extreme prejudice.

 

[Bikenut]

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap from some who claim "property rights" only for a select few, and not others.... I have the absolute RIGHT to carry my PROPERTY (in this case, my firearm) anywhere I damn well please.... anyone else trying to infinge on my RIGHT to do so isnt respecting MY RIGHTS, so I have no obligation to follow any of their rules...

Here we go again with the hypocritical bullcrap "Hooray for MY RIGHTS! and to hell with your rights."

 

[WmGardner]

Guess you've never heard of trespassing. You have no right to be on my property, PERIOD, let alone bring whatever you damn well please onto it.

Agreed. He seems to think his perceived “rights” outweigh anyone else’s for the sole reasoning of being “his”. What hubris.


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[WmGardner]

Enter my property with a gun, against my will, expect to be met with extreme prejudice.

As it should be. Your house, your rules.


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[Hatchetman]

Show us all, you oh so smart people who disagree with me, how, where and by what means do my rights disappear.... (or your rights) I swear the absolute blindness and circular thinking you *** as** have to come up with to support your "property rights" while 100% IGNORING the very same thing (property rights) of others just so you can say no-one has any rights but yourselves once someone crosses an imaginary line.... My personal property (my firearms in this case) are just as real, just as absolute as yours are... they do NOT go away just because your name is on a piece of paper at the county office.... trespass laws are not being discussed here, PROPERTY RIGHTS are.... EVERYTHING I OWN IS MY PROPERTY, same as you. If you wish to have someone charged or arrested for trespassing, that is your decision. To say you will shoot or even kill someone who is armed while on your property is advocating murder, no other way to put it without LYING to yourselves and us.

Go ahead, lie some more, spout off your rules trumping my rights all you want.. I am still the only one here speaking the ugly truth none of you want to admit.