NICS Delays - 4473 Questions

D

DotNetRob

New member
Figured I would ask this question here, since I can't seem to find the answers anywhere. I finally got into firearms/guns last year, not sure why I waited so long. I took a intro to guns course, rented some guns at ranges, then finally purchased my first gun. I fill out the 4473, actually it was a electronic version(Bass Pro Shop), but it came back delayed. A week later I came back and picked up my gun.

Since then I have purchased two other guns, and I have been delayed each time, waited a week and go back to get my gun. I also got my CCW last month. :smile:

So now my question(s)...

First the most obvious is why do I keep getting delayed? But I have a partial answer with that, at least I think I do. Back when I was 18, which was 18 years ago, I got into some trouble, made bad decisions as a young adult. Ended up getting probation. I honestly don't remember the exact details of the probation/charges etc... Was a long time ago. It doesn't show up on a normal background check (work), but I know is shows up on federal background checks.

So now the real questions.

1. Is this why I get delayed? I put my SSN on all my 4473's...

2. On the 4473 question c. , I have read the instructions a few times, but legal jargon is like tax codes and near impossible for me to 100% understand. Am I supposed to answer yes or no...

3. Would Getting a UPIN help/hurt ?

Just looking for other peoples advise, experience, knowledge, and stories.

Thanks
 
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Ha I've never not been delayed, who knows why but they always come back with proceed in like a minute after the "Delay." Then again I live in the People's Republic of Illinois and the ISP has its own proprietary piece of garbage. I really have never met anyone who hasn't been delayed (in other states that use NICS). I believe I read some statistics on NICS checks and only a single digit amount received "Proceed" immediately while a HUGE amount were "Delay" then "Proceed" followed by a small amount of denials, usually due to clerical errors but there is the occasional felon who's just that stupid. SSN doesn't seem to do anything to help either and I wouldn't bother getting a UPIN unless you plan on purchasing quite a few more firearms. You've got a little bit of a record, I highly doubt that's the issue since I did some dumb crap in my youth and in college and Utah still issued me a permit. If you were a prohibited person (as in supposed to answer "yes" to 11.c), you'd be in the system. Even if you were convicted of a State misdemeanor punishable by up to two years in prison (unless it's domestic violence), you can still answer "No." I'm guessing you received some sort of court supervision? I dunno, I can't tell you 100% but 99% sure that it's more likely you share the same name as a felon or the system is just overloaded (especially lately). Don't worry about it.

On a side note, you may wanna consider getting whatever you did expunged from your record, if possible. At the very least, seal them. I cannot get my 10 year old DUI expunged ever but my buddy can get his Class 4 felony cocaine possession expunged...wonderful state this is :P
 
If you think getting a back ground check is bad now. Prepare because it will get a lot worse. It is just a matter of time. I live here in TN and sometimes i get cleared threw NICS right away. But there has been times where i did half to wait a day for it to clear. With all the stuff that is going on right now with all the shootings. I would expect longer delays. Also keep in mind there are millions of people who purchase firearms just like we do and NICS is a data base just like anything else is as far as a back ground check. Sometimes instant and sometimes not instant. The mane things you cant have on your record is a felon. You cant have mental health issues. You cant have assault charges on a spouse and there or a few more i believe. Maybe drug charges. When i was younger i had all kinds of stuff on my record as a juvenile and i asked the judge to remove it and he did. Most times a judge will remove anything you want if you have paid the court in full. I have bought several firearms over my life time and have never had to worry about what i did when i was younger. I would agree with ScorpDX you may benefit trying to resolve your stuff by having it removed and that will help with your delays also. But also keep in mind NICS is a data base and sometimes it is so over loaded there will be delays. Not always. But sometimes. I read somewhere where they were saying NCIS is not even seal proof. Meaning there are people who get cleared that should not get cleared. If you have been watching what is going on in the world we live in NRA has brought this up before congress. When bad things happen or some people do bad things. It hurts all of us gun owners who are responsible and causes us severe issues getting cleared and severe headaches also. Just sharing my experience.
 
I work at Norpoint Shooting Center and Tactical here in Washington State.

First, yes, that is the most likely reason for you being delayed each time you go to purchase firearms. There probably isn't much you can do to fix it either. I don't know how you answered question C on your 4473, but if you answer yes to any of them it will result in a delay or denial every time.

Getting a UPIN is hard and time consuming. If you have already been issued your permit and allowed to purchase firearms it means your background has already been cleared, obtaining a UPIN isn't going to serve your purpose any.

Best advice is that since you have your permit already and have passed all the background checks is simply answer no to all the questions including question C on your 4473. This should help your application through, if it continues to be an issue then I would contact NICS and inquire why, you have the right to. Once you know why you should be able to request a UPIN or have it removed or fixed so that it doesn't keep flagging your NICS check.

Let me know how this works out for you, and if you continue having issues send me a PM and I can get you contact info for them directly and the steps you can take to get there.

Hope this helps.

Christopher
 
skinnyb82 said:
Ha I've never not been delayed, who knows why but they always come back with proceed in like a minute after the "Delay." Then again I live in the People's Republic of Illinois and the ISP has its own proprietary piece of garbage. I really have never met anyone who hasn't been delayed (in other states that use NICS). I believe I read some statistics on NICS checks and only a single digit amount received "Proceed" immediately while a HUGE amount were "Delay" then "Proceed" followed by a small amount of denials, usually due to clerical errors but there is the occasional felon who's just that stupid. SSN doesn't seem to do anything to help either and I wouldn't bother getting a UPIN unless you plan on purchasing quite a few more firearms. You've got a little bit of a record, I highly doubt that's the issue since I did some dumb crap in my youth and in college and Utah still issued me a permit. If you were a prohibited person (as in supposed to answer "yes" to 11.c), you'd be in the system. Even if you were convicted of a State misdemeanor punishable by up to two years in prison (unless it's domestic violence), you can still answer "No." I'm guessing you received some sort of court supervision? I dunno, I can't tell you 100% but 99% sure that it's more likely you share the same name as a felon or the system is just overloaded (especially lately). Don't worry about it.

On a side note, you may wanna consider getting whatever you did expunged from your record, if possible. At the very least, seal them. I cannot get my 10 year old DUI expunged ever but my buddy can get his Class 4 felony cocaine possession expunged...wonderful state this is :P
Click to expand...

How do I go about getting things expunged? Just find a lawyer?
 
Go to the city court or county court where you think you had issues and ask the clerk how can you get fixed.
 
The initial person answering the phone on the NICS/FBI side is just taking info. If the "red flag" pops up they have to refer it to the "backroom" for further investigation. I have a common name and use to get delayed quite frequently. I would get the transaction number, step out in the parking lot and call FBI and inquire and have had times where they were calling dealer back before I ever stepped back in. Believe it or not, the FBI have been pleasureable on the phone every time I've had to call them. I don't know how your state is but our CWP in SC serves as a background check and makes gun buying very easy. You just fill out the 4473 and they write your CWP # down and your on your way with your purchase.
 
DotNetRob said:
How do I go about getting things expunged? Just find a lawyer?
Click to expand...

One of my friends expunged a bunch of misdemeanors pro se. Just fill out their paperwork no big deal since its been a good chunk of time judge wouldn't have a problem, AG probably won't object either. Not saying uou shouldn't just that you don't necessarily need one. If it's a Class A misdemeanor type thing then yea get an attorney. Or like my buddy he's paying a good chunk to get that felony off his record. Then again it is a felony.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2
 
I work at a shop in Illinois and I can tell you I call in non stop of course, from what i can tell you most delays are just because the automated system is backed up. When the delay hits we receive a fax on average within the next hour of the approval. Some get cleared right away most cases no rhyme or reason why. Now this weekend with the gun show in town it will be overloaded.
 
I'm in nys, my buddy has a 5 business day delay on purchasing firearms, due to trouble he got into 15+ yrs ago. Hope that helps you a little.
 
Same crap happend to me here in Texas always a delay like yours always got the firearm after the wait period but none the less a delay. I never knew why till I got my chl. Here is what was the cause in my case back in 1971 I was busted for a few joints of pot and being a runaway in California.
Now mind you at the time I was a dumb kid of 17 years old and I am now 58. Austin Texas denined my Chl till I showed them the outcome of my drastic deeds. I had to contact the court in California spend more money so I could send in a paper to Texas that said no record found.
All went well and they were happy with that and sent me my Chl.
 
cripps72 said:
I work at a shop in Illinois and I can tell you I call in non stop of course, from what i can tell you most delays are just because the automated system is backed up. When the delay hits we receive a fax on average within the next hour of the approval. Some get cleared right away most cases no rhyme or reason why. Now this weekend with the gun show in town it will be overloaded.
Click to expand...

I ALWAYS get delayed. Then they come back 2 min later with a proceed. Happened with the last lower I bought, my XDS, etc. I can count on it and it's not because of my DUI. I don't care if it's a delay-proceed as long as it's not a delay-deny because I'd raise hell with the ISP if that happened. Some big box stores actually charge $2 for the FTIP check...cheap bastards.

I was at an LGS right when the panic went full retard, 6" stack of 4473s and calling in FTIP checks...or trying to. Line was busy busy busy. And this was weeks ago. Now that their shelves of rifles are barren (except for hunting rifles and ARs chambered in .22LR), people are buying up large caliber pistols (except 1911s). I STILL cannot find a 6.5mm Grendel upper for a reasonable price. Pondering going to the Indy 1500 next week.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2
 
A "Conditional No" is not caused by system backlog. It is for some other reason in Florida. Our system is very bogged down right now but I've had mine approved while talking to the FDLE rep and the second person's 4473 get a CN number on the same phone call. Three days later the FDLE has called back with "Approved". We are limited to 5 individuals per call in before we have to make another call. Soon as we get it sorted out, we'll be able to do our own checks online so that the FDLE isn't so swamped.
 
I've been delayed for honesty. I listed two juvenile police problems on my Texas CHL application. It took them 70 days to return a letter saying they need judgement, disposition and sentence for shoplifting in ≈1978. I've called 30 numbers, mailed 5 requests, emailed 6 lawyers. Paid at least $30.00 on web searches, only to realize you'll never see juvenile records! Hours searching the internet, trying to find the right department. It's difficult to say the least.

Specifics: this happened in Roscommon, Michigan ≈1978. I wasn't fingerprinted, mom picked me up. I was 16.
I've called both the county clerk and court clerk in roscommon two days ago. No reply. I even spoke to the Chief of police! He said try ICHAT. I did, no record. I think I only need a certified "no record found" letter from the courts.

If anyone has ever had this problem and got it resolved, please reply. I have less than 75 days. I'm about to give up.
 
Ok, figure I would update my thread about my 4473 delays...



The problem is not my arrest back when I was 18, the problem is an arrest that happened in 2009, which I was arrested then let go a few hours later. Apparently the arrest shows up funny on my electronic records, it shows the disposition of the arrest as "blank", meaning it look like the charge didn't have a resolution. So when my 4473 is submitted it looks like I have an open/unresolved arrest, which causes the delay...



The paper copy of my arrest from 2009, has a disposition on it, which says the charges where dropped and I was released with no further actions.



So after talking to a expungement attorney, the best course of action is to get the 2009 arrest completely removed/expunged from my record. I have filed for the expungement thru my attorney now, and now it is just a waiting game.



Will post more about the outcome of my expungement and about my first gun purchase after my expungement is finished.
 
Check about whether an expunging will do you any good. Expunging normally removes charges from the public domain but the feds and the cops will still see it so when you do an NICS it will most likely show up anyway. Expunging is a means whereby a prohibited person can now purchase a firearm. The only thing that will completely remove old criminal charges would be a Governors pardon. Don't answer no to any question that you should answer yes to.

As far as question 3 goes, if you had been convicted of a felony and have not got your civil rights and firearm rights restored then answering that question falsely could cause you serious problems. But because you have a ccw and have purchased firearms from an ffl it is not likely your charges were felonies. I would think that even after 18 years you would be able to remember whether or not you were charged with a felony. The second part to question 3 is whether or not a judge could have sentenced you to more than a year. It doesn't matter whether you got probation, suspended sentences or what not. If the charge could have gotten you sentenced to more than one year that is the operative phrase. In most states only felonies can carry a sentence of more than one year but in some jurisdictions there are misdemeanors that can have a sentence of more than a year. If you could have been sentenced to more than a year on a misdemeanor then you would be prohibited until your firearm rights are restored. Federal felonies and domestic violence convictions are prohibitors from firearms forever unless you get a presidential pardon.

If a state restores a felons firearm rights after state felony conviction the the federal prohibition against a felon possessing firearms is not in play. Therefore even a convicted felon will pass an NICS once firearm rights are restored.
 
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