NFA Trust


Palmach

New member
I am in the process of completing all the paperwork for an NFA Trust.

I would be interested to hear from others about the process, and any tips they might have for streamlining.
 

KimberPB

New member
I actually lucked out and have a friend that is a class three dealer so he helped me setup my trust. It was a year ago but it was fairly straight forward. Filled out my personal info, the trust name, and you'll needed one other person on the trust as kinda an officer/second in command type of thing. I just used one of the guys I knew that worked at my buddies shop. So myself and the other guy had to sign it then have it notarized. That was about all there was to it. Mailed it and the paper work for the suppresser the same day, the ATF actually had to wait a few extra weeks to finalize my tax stamp because the trust paper week to about a month and a half to process.

Hope that helped some. If you have any question let me know and I'll try to help you out.
 

Palmach

New member
Thanks for the info. I also know somebody that is a Class lll manufacturer and dealer. However, a mutual friend of ours had an attorney who filed his own modify it for us.

I just have not gotten around to the finer points of who to pick, etc.

My first purchase will probably be a suppressor for the AR15 he built for me. If I had a better camera I would post pictures.

I then want to work on an SBR.
 

KimberPB

New member
Let me know how you like the AR with the suppresser. I originally going to buy a suppresser for mine but decided to go with the 22 instead. Are you planing on running subsonic loads through it?
 

Palmach

New member
Let me know how you like the AR with the suppresser. I originally going to buy a suppresser for mine but decided to go with the 22 instead. Are you planing on running subsonic loads through it?

I will probably run some subsonic loads through when I range test it with the suppressor. The subsonic will definitely work better in tandem with the suppressor. Running the faster loads tends to defeat the purpose.
 

KimberPB

New member
I will probably run some subsonic loads through when I range test it with the suppressor. The subsonic will definitely work better in tandem with the suppressor. Running the faster loads tends to defeat the purpose.

Well, enjoy it and send me a PM and let me know how you like it on the AR. I've gone back and forth on if I would get one for mine. Would love to here some first hand experience.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
What are subsonic loads? What is it about them (ballistics, weight, etc.) that sets them apart from typical rifle loads?
 

KimberPB

New member
What are subsonic loads? What is it about them (ballistics, weight, etc.) that sets them apart from typical rifle loads?

Subsonic loads are loads that travel, fps wise, under the speed of supersonic. Anything traveling over 1,129 fps will go supersonic and break the sound barrier. Must .223 round travels at least twice that speed. So even if you have a suppresser to quiet the sound of the round going off you will still hear the boom when the round goes supersonic. It’s a cool thing to hear but kind of defeats the purpose of a suppressed weapon. So the only thing different between normal rounds and subsonic rounds are that the subsonic rounds are loaded to travel under 1,129 fps.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Subsonic loads are loads that travel, fps wise, under the speed of supersonic. Anything traveling over 1,129 fps will go supersonic and break the sound barrier. Must .223 round travels at least twice that speed. So even if you have a suppresser to quiet the sound of the round going off you will still hear the boom when the round goes supersonic. It’s a cool thing to hear but kind of defeats the purpose of a suppressed weapon. So the only thing different between normal rounds and subsonic rounds are that the subsonic rounds are loaded to travel under 1,129 fps.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

By the way, can your "trust" be disbanded as soon as you acquire the weapons? Will you still be required to submit to random background checks by the FBI for life? Does being part of a trust exempt you from many of the requirements that individual owners of class III and NFA weapons are subject to?
 

KimberPB

New member
Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

By the way, can your "trust" be disbanded as soon as you acquire the weapons? Will you still be required to submit to random background checks by the FBI for life? Does being part of a trust exempt you from many of the requirements that individual owners of class III and NFA weapons are subject to?

As i understand it if the trust is disbanded the suppressor has to be transferred into another trust or person. This may cause you to pay the tax stamp again. Yes I still have to submit to the background checks when purchasing additional firearms. It doesn't really exempt you from anything just makes it quicker and easier to transfer to another trust if you happen to sell it in the future. I'm still fairly new at this so I don't know all the ins and outs yet.
 

kwo51

New member
What was the cost in total not counting the can? What kind of 22 rounds do you use.Is there a subsonic 22 round?Will HP ammo work.
 

KimberPB

New member
What was the cost in total not counting the can? What kind of 22 rounds do you use.Is there a subsonic 22 round?Will HP ammo work.

I have a buddy that's a class 3 dealer so he didn't charge me anything to do the paper work for the trust. But the tax stamp was $200 and the Tac suppressor was $160. With the smaller barrel there is not a huge difference between the high velocity and subsonic rounds. The short barrel does not give the round time to build up enough velocity to go super sonic. The subsonic does seem to be a little quieter. I have shot standard Winchester and Remington and seveal different brands of subsonic ammo though it. Ranging from lead round nose, lead HP, copper washed round nose , and copper washed HP. All shot fine.
 

whiskey

(echo_5)
If you run subsonic rounds through a can on an AR, it becomes a single-shot weapon.

I''ve shot a friend's can on an 11.5" SBR and it was pretty nice.

Waiting now on my first classIII, a Cobra M2 40. My 40cal AR is already subsonic out of its 16" bbl. The can's gonna get it almost "hollywood quiet". It should run even better when I SBR down to 7.5".
 

Cord

New member
Just pointing out, just about all silencer manufacturers do not recommend subsonic ammo for centerfire rifles (something I learned while reading my AAC M4-2000 manual) due to variability in the stability of the bullet itself at lower speeds and the possibility of a baffle strike (bullet strikes the inside of the suppressor after exiting the barrel). Some specifically state that use of subsonic ammo will void the warranty Rim fire is a different story, and Gemtech actually makes their own brand of .22LR ammo that is amazingly quiet.
 

Warbirds

New member
The local gun shop here told me that it us best to have a lawyer write up the trust paperwork at a cost of 800-1200. They said that the ATF frowns on just downloading the packet and filing it out myself. They said that trusts are fairly new and there will be trouble later if the proper terminology isn't used in filing out the paperwork.
Should I put any faith in what they told me?
 

Purple

New member
The local gun shop here told me that it us best to have a lawyer write up the trust paperwork at a cost of 800-1200. They said that the ATF frowns on just downloading the packet and filing it out myself. They said that trusts are fairly new and there will be trouble later if the proper terminology isn't used in filing out the paperwork.
Should I put any faith in what they told me?

I had my NFA Trust paperwork done by the Apple Law Firm in Florida, who then sent it to an attorney in the state I live in. That attorney then made changes to the paperwork with amendments to make the trust paperwork binding in my state. You can download it and fill it out yourself, but I would suggest that you have a local lawyer who is familiar with Gun Trusts and Gun Laws look at it and make applicable changes.
 

Warbirds

New member
Purple:243507 said:
The local gun shop here told me that it us best to have a lawyer write up the trust paperwork at a cost of 800-1200. They said that the ATF frowns on just downloading the packet and filing it out myself. They said that trusts are fairly new and there will be trouble later if the proper terminology isn't used in filing out the paperwork.
Should I put any faith in what they told me?

I had my NFA Trust paperwork done by the Apple Law Firm in Florida, who then sent it to an attorney in the state I live in. That attorney then made changes to the paperwork with amendments to make the trust paperwork binding in my state. You can download it and fill it out yourself, but I would suggest that you have a local lawyer who is familiar with Gun Trusts and Gun Laws look at it and make applicable changes.
Would you give me a ballpark cost on what it ran you to have them look at the paperwork... please?
 

SaCCaL

New member
I had a trust made up by a lawyer who specializes in Gun Trusts. If a trust isn't written up properly it can really come back to bite you in the butt. I used a firm called Prince Law Offices (Reading PA Family Law Attorneys | Allentown Divorce Lawyer | Lancaster Criminal Defense & DUI Law Firm) This link goes directly to the firearms section of their site with tons of information on gun trusts. (Pennsylvania Gun Lawyer) Joshua Prince was a huge help and talked to me for almost an hour explaining how it works, what is needed from me, all the ins and outs, and every question I could throw at him. He treated me as if I was a good friend and even after all was said and done with my trust he will still answer questions when I have them. He also is an avid shooter himself and sponsors an annual machine gun shoot.

I am currently in the process of filling out paperwork for my first NFA rifle, does anyone have a timeframe as to about how long it takes using a trust? Thanks...
 

bkdraft

New member
My son in law and myself set up a trust. He got a copy of a trust from a Class III dealer and we just modified it with our names, got it notarized and we had NO problems. He has a handgun with a stock, I have a can for my SIG 522. Both of our stamps took about the same time. Paperwork sent in in June, stamp arrived in October. This was last year, 2011.

Using sub sonic ammo in the 522 results in just hearing the action of the gun. Awesome!!!
 

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