New York Open and Concealed Carry Laws and Information


You cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you display the handgun -with intent-or malice.

IN NY State, CPL 400-2(f) basically requires to to have the handgun concealed at all times when in public or in public view.
 

hunter won

New member
You cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you display the handgun -with intent-or malice.

IN NY State, CPL 400-2(f) basically requires to to have the handgun concealed at all times when in public or in public view.
To any NEW YORK PISTOL PERMIT HOLDER- DO NOT DISPLAY A HANDGUN EVER UNLESS IT IS FOR SELF DEFENSE. This is a recipe for disaster,You sure can be arrested for menacing.You knowingly have the gun with you.You knowingly have to keep that weapon concealed.Who taught that class OMG!
 
Hunter:

I will mention that different counties in NY State put their own spin on the laws of NY State as a whole, but when I instruct the Article 35 (Justification of Defense) and other important laws of NY State, I do not instruct personal interpretations or other local flavors/variables. I teach to the NY Penal code. In the NY State Penal code, there is no violation of law if your concealed handgun were to accidentally (or otherwise without intention) become UNconcealed, yes, you may well be arrested if the LEO does not know the laws correctly, BUT unless you were actively displaying the handgun with the intent to elicit a response from others present, or if the display of the handgun was not in a lawful manner, then there is nothing you can get charged with. The situation may be uncomfortable for a while, but as there has been no violation of law, then you have not broken a law.

Some counties will attempt to scare you or threaten you with arrest if your gun were to be seen, but that is not NY State law. It the fact that they are just anti gun (no surprise there!!) and want you to be paranoid.

As a former LEO and a current NRA Training Counselor and Authorized Instructor for numerous pre licensing and legal doctrine classes that are approved in 8 or 10 counties all over NY State (sorry, I lost track there), I can speak to the varied interpretations of laws in different counties. I can also feel comfortable with the fact that what I have been teaching is approved and relevant according to the licensing offices and regulatory officials in those counties.

I have found in my experience that any horror stories or other isolated experiences are either just that-isolated- or there were other mitgating circumstances such as:

"My buddy got arrested because he had a gun in his car"

Actually turns out to be:

"My buddy got pulled over for driving drunk and had a gun with him. Turned out to be his third DWI and when the cops found the gun in his car, they arrested him for that too"

But, that's just my 2 cents (3 with inflation and the deficit) on this.

Stay safe!
 

hunter won

New member
Hunter:

I will mention that different counties in NY State put their own spin on the laws of NY State as a whole, but when I instruct the Article 35 (Justification of Defense) and other important laws of NY State, I do not instruct personal interpretations or other local flavors/variables. I teach to the NY Penal code. In the NY State Penal code, there is no violation of law if your concealed handgun were to accidentally (or otherwise without intention) become UNconcealed, yes, you may well be arrested if the LEO does not know the laws correctly, BUT unless you were actively displaying the handgun with the intent to elicit a response from others present, or if the display of the handgun was not in a lawful manner, then there is nothing you can get charged with. The situation may be uncomfortable for a while, but as there has been no violation of law, then you have not broken a law.

Some counties will attempt to scare you or threaten you with arrest if your gun were to be seen, but that is not NY State law. It the fact that they are just anti gun (no surprise there!!) and want you to be paranoid.

As a former LEO and a current NRA Training Counselor and Authorized Instructor for numerous pre licensing and legal doctrine classes that are approved in 8 or 10 counties all over NY State (sorry, I lost track there), I can speak to the varied interpretations of laws in different counties. I can also feel comfortable with the fact that what I have been teaching is approved and relevant according to the licensing offices and regulatory officials in those counties.

I have found in my experience that any horror stories or other isolated experiences are either just that-isolated- or there were other mitgating circumstances such as:

"My buddy got arrested because he had a gun in his car"

Actually turns out to be:

"My buddy got pulled over for driving drunk and had a gun with him. Turned out to be his third DWI and when the cops found the gun in his car, they arrested him for that too"

But, that's just my 2 cents (3 with inflation and the deficit) on this.

Stay safe!
Did you forget the Culpable mental states that was taught in the Academy.New York Penal Law is in fact a state law not a county or local law.Menacing is placing a person in fear.The police enforce the Penal Law.I worked with many cops that would be quick to report to the licensing officer that a permit holder was carrying out of class when said person was stopped on a V&T.BTW most civilians I stopped on V&T's would make the stupidest remarks" I learned from this class I may take my gun with me because I belong to a 24 hour range"now I have no idea why you would mention that you CAN NOT BE ARRESTED FOR MENACING when you display a handgun.Some poor guy going to the range stops at a gas station a P.O. observed him walking in the store and see's the gun and collars the guy for menacing.The DA followed through no problem.The gun wasn't exposed on purpose the cop gets the number and the poor slob loses his handgun permit.Now that was a real incident here in New York.Every county in NY looks at it different.Remember police make arrest" LEO does not know law correctly" BTW don't give legal advice another important thing the police and DA won't do.Important rule to every NY pistol permit holder is get the proper training.
 
OK, so I am not looking to make this an argument, I am trying to point out that there are widely varying differences in NY State. Not to mention interpretations. Making a blanket statement as "anyone in NY will be arrested if their gun gets seen" is too broad a statement and could be problematic. I understand that NY City and the surrounding area is wholly different from Upstate NY, but so is Western NY vs the Albany or Northern part of the state. Heck, In some areas of the state, LEO's don't care if you carry open. Just stating what I know by experience and interviews.

And no, I did not forget the culpability factor. That's what I mentioned earlier when I said 'with intent'

What I said about the menacing part (look up the law too where it says "with intent") is that you cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you displayed the handgun with intent to place another person in fear for their life or harm. If there are cops and DA's arresting and prosecuting, even convicting people because their handgun was accidentally seen (not displayed on purpose such as forgetting to put your coat back on when you get out of the car to get gas) then that is a tragedy and I am glad I do not live where that happens.

We seem to be talking two different thought patterns. You reference instances where there was a clear intent to not conceal the gun (Traffic stops and gas station) where I am referring to your coat accidentally blowing open in the wind or your shirt riding up when you reach for something on a high shelf. The difference is that one is somewhat on purpose and the other is an accident or a wardrobe malfunction.

Yes. I relate the laws as they are written, but I do not give legal advice. I am not a lawyer, but everything I teach has been vetted and qualified by lawyers as true, correct, and prudent, and I know where the line is as I have had many discussions with DA's and judges in the areas we teach, and they all have agreed and advised me and my instructors on what is the prudent information to give and interpret and what is not.

The discussion of state laws vs county laws vs local laws vs city vs town vs village laws and ordinances is one that will just make someone's head pop off. Because I have to have a commonality for instruction, I refer only to NY State laws and any local laws or ordinances that the DA's or Judges ask me to. I also encourage the attendees to research the laws for themselves by looking them up, contacting the local DA, or a local lawyer. This way, they have confirmed the info and learned it firsthand for themselves.

I tell everyone in my classes that is is the utmost responsibility of yours to conceal the handgun properly. There is no 'almost' or 'good enough' there is only concealed or not. I do impress to them the possible ramifications should they forget or utilize a less then optional cover or concealment method.

I have had many instances related to me where a handgun accidentally became visible and no police action resulted. I know, first hand, of many situations where an LEO was called to the usual "man with a gun" call and it turned out to be a case of a bad cover garment or concealment method. Was it really an accident or negligence to know that your method was inadequate? No matter. The person was not arrested, charged, convicted, etc as it was deemed an accident and no one was in fear for their life from the holstered firearm.

But again, that's the glaring differences we have to live with and deal with being residents of the great state of NY. I've offered my thoughts and details, and I understand your thoughts and the details you offer. Thanks for the exchange of info. Feel free to email me(or PM me) if you like, I'd love to hear more of your experiences in your region. It's very interesting to learn about how places view things differently.

I wish you well, stay safe, and enjoy.
 

hunter won

New member
OK, so I am not looking to make this an argument, I am trying to point out that there are widely varying differences in NY State. Not to mention interpretations. Making a blanket statement as "anyone in NY will be arrested if their gun gets seen" is too broad a statement and could be problematic. I understand that NY City and the surrounding area is wholly different from Upstate NY, but so is Western NY vs the Albany or Northern part of the state. Heck, In some areas of the state, LEO's don't care if you carry open. Just stating what I know by experience and interviews.

And no, I did not forget the culpability factor. That's what I mentioned earlier when I said 'with intent'

What I said about the menacing part (look up the law too where it says "with intent") is that you cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you displayed the handgun with intent to place another person in fear for their life or harm. If there are cops and DA's arresting and prosecuting, even convicting people because their handgun was accidentally seen (not displayed on purpose such as forgetting to put your coat back on when you get out of the car to get gas) then that is a tragedy and I am glad I do not live where that happens.

We seem to be talking two different thought patterns. You reference instances where there was a clear intent to not conceal the gun (Traffic stops and gas station) where I am referring to your coat accidentally blowing open in the wind or your shirt riding up when you reach for something on a high shelf. The difference is that one is somewhat on purpose and the other is an accident or a wardrobe malfunction.

Yes. I relate the laws as they are written, but I do not give legal advice. I am not a lawyer, but everything I teach has been vetted and qualified by lawyers as true, correct, and prudent, and I know where the line is as I have had many discussions with DA's and judges in the areas we teach, and they all have agreed and advised me and my instructors on what is the prudent information to give and interpret and what is not.

The discussion of state laws vs county laws vs local laws vs city vs town vs village laws and ordinances is one that will just make someone's head pop off. Because I have to have a commonality for instruction, I refer only to NY State laws and any local laws or ordinances that the DA's or Judges ask me to. I also encourage the attendees to research the laws for themselves by looking them up, contacting the local DA, or a local lawyer. This way, they have confirmed the info and learned it firsthand for themselves.

I tell everyone in my classes that is is the utmost responsibility of yours to conceal the handgun properly. There is no 'almost' or 'good enough' there is only concealed or not. I do impress to them the possible ramifications should they forget or utilize a less then optional cover or concealment method.

I have had many instances related to me where a handgun accidentally became visible and no police action resulted. I know, first hand, of many situations where an LEO was called to the usual "man with a gun" call and it turned out to be a case of a bad cover garment or concealment method. Was it really an accident or negligence to know that your method was inadequate? No matter. The person was not arrested, charged, convicted, etc as it was deemed an accident and no one was in fear for their life from the holstered firearm.

But again, that's the glaring differences we have to live with and deal with being residents of the great state of NY. I've offered my thoughts and details, and I understand your thoughts and the details you offer. Thanks for the exchange of info. Feel free to email me(or PM me) if you like, I'd love to hear more of your experiences in your region. It's very interesting to learn about how places view things differently.

I wish you well, stay safe, and enjoy.
From what I'm gathering is that you have limited LE experience and live in a rural part of New York.The academy training you recieved may have been at a local college part time or weekends.My concern is that people carry responsibly and safely and not be steered in the wrong way by you that you" CAN NOT BE ARRESTED FOR MENACING"which I truly hope you haven't said in your lessons before.I have experienced many civilians while they were stopped for a traffic violation and happen to be carrying a gun on a restricted permit.As a cop safety is first because you don't know who your dealing with.I know it can get ugly quick.If you carry a gun in New York it must be concealed, even in Rural parts of NY the law applies to all.Proper training should be taught ,remember keep it concealed, Menacing is against the law!
 

hunter won

New member
It is a class C Felony to possess a pistol or revolver or firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches with out a New York Pistol permit.New York has very strict laws and many out of state permit holders are arrested every year in New York because they thougt it was ok because they have a permit issued from their home state.
 
Hunter: At no time have I called into question your background, training, or education, so why would you do so to mine?

I live in Rochester and have worked in BOTH rural and urban settings. I do not have 'limited' LE ex experience as you allege. My training was done at one of the highest rated academies in the area (The Public Safety Training Center here in Rochester) and I continually train with and for LEO, military and civilian personnel. I train all over NY State and have occasion to chat with many LEO's on various subject matter, including this very one. I'll admit that I do not live in NYC or in the immediate area where the views on gun ownership and CCW are very restrictive, and I have not supposed anythign about your training or where you live as well.

Let's get back to basics here. You have taken what I wrote and misquoted it. In my original post, I wrote:

"You cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you display the handgun -with intent-or malice."

You seem to keep leaving out the " with intent or malice" part when you have replied. So, for the benefit of those watching the post, I have included the entire NY Penal code section that defines the crime of menacing. Everyone please note that only Menacing in the Second Degree deals with the intentional display of a weapon.

S 120.13 Menacing in the first degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the first degree when he or she
commits the crime of menacing in the second degree and has been
previously convicted of the crime of menacing in the second degree
within the preceding ten years.
Menacing in the first degree is a class E felony.

S 120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm; or
2. He or she repeatedly follows a person or engages in a course of
conduct or repeatedly commits acts over a period of time intentionally
placing or attempting to place another person in reasonable fear of
physical injury, serious physical injury or death; or
3. He or she commits the crime of menacing in the third degree in
violation of that part of a duly served order of protection, or such
order which the defendant has actual knowledge of because he or she was
present in court when such order was issued, pursuant to article eight
of the family court act, section 530.12 of the criminal procedure law,
or an order of protection issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in
another state, territorial or tribal jurisdiction, which directed the
respondent or defendant to stay away from the person or persons on whose
behalf the order was issued.
Menacing in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

S 120.15 Menacing in the third degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical
menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another
person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical
injury.
Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor.

No where in the Penal law section does it say by accident or anything similar.

My points and discussion have all been centered around whether or not the actions of a firearm being displayed were intentional or unintended. Yes, if someone does display a firearm and another person feels threatened by that display, then someone will most likely get arrested. I fully agree.

If there was no intent and it was an accident, meaning, that there was no active display, then that's all it is - an accident. That's like comparing someone intentionally ramming another car with their own or hitting that other car by accident. One was intentional and the other was not. Yes, someone's going to be cuffed and stuffed in the first case, and in the second, probably not - unless they were doing so by intent.

So....if a motorist gets stopped for a traffic infraction, and they are not concealing their handgun, they could indeed be subject to arrest if the officer/deputy/trooper saw it necessary and if it were warranted. It does not mean that they will, without a doubt, be arrested and charged. That's like telling everyone if you drive over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

If someone gets out of their car for any reason, and they did not put their coat/jacket/long shirt/whatever back on to cover their firearm because they did not want to, then yes, they could be subject to arrest if someone complained, felt threatened, or if a LEO saw them and felt it necessary to do so.

Both situations included a clear intent to not conceal the handgun and there are consequences to those actions - possibly.

In a case where the coat/shirt/whatever is blown open by a gust of wind, or rides up from sitting, or is pulled open when reaching for a wallet....that is an accident. No intent, no malice, no anything other than a purely accidental occurrence.

Don't get me wrong, I do tell people to do whatever you can to keep the handgun concealed at all times. It is your duty to not let anyone know you have a gun. Period. BUT I also tell them that a simple mistake may not cause you a headache, or it could. You never know. I try to get them to think about it and hope they never find out.


I've said my piece, offered my information, and had fun discussing this. But I will not get drawn into a posting argument. It just will not do any good.

Thank you for your information, I hope that the viewers enjoyed our exchange of ideas and thoughts. I will be the one that offer the idea that we probably should agree to disagree and we can leave it at that.

Take care
 

hunter won

New member
Hunter: At no time have I called into question your background, training, or education, so why would you do so to mine?

I live in Rochester and have worked in BOTH rural and urban settings. I do not have 'limited' LE ex experience as you allege. My training was done at one of the highest rated academies in the area (The Public Safety Training Center here in Rochester) and I continually train with and for LEO, military and civilian personnel. I train all over NY State and have occasion to chat with many LEO's on various subject matter, including this very one. I'll admit that I do not live in NYC or in the immediate area where the views on gun ownership and CCW are very restrictive, and I have not supposed anythign about your training or where you live as well.

Let's get back to basics here. You have taken what I wrote and misquoted it. In my original post, I wrote:

"You cannot be arrested for Menacing unless you display the handgun -with intent-or malice."

You seem to keep leaving out the " with intent or malice" part when you have replied. So, for the benefit of those watching the post, I have included the entire NY Penal code section that defines the crime of menacing. Everyone please note that only Menacing in the Second Degree deals with the intentional display of a weapon.

S 120.13 Menacing in the first degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the first degree when he or she
commits the crime of menacing in the second degree and has been
previously convicted of the crime of menacing in the second degree
within the preceding ten years.
Menacing in the first degree is a class E felony.

S 120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm; or
2. He or she repeatedly follows a person or engages in a course of
conduct or repeatedly commits acts over a period of time intentionally
placing or attempting to place another person in reasonable fear of
physical injury, serious physical injury or death; or
3. He or she commits the crime of menacing in the third degree in
violation of that part of a duly served order of protection, or such
order which the defendant has actual knowledge of because he or she was
present in court when such order was issued, pursuant to article eight
of the family court act, section 530.12 of the criminal procedure law,
or an order of protection issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in
another state, territorial or tribal jurisdiction, which directed the
respondent or defendant to stay away from the person or persons on whose
behalf the order was issued.
Menacing in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

S 120.15 Menacing in the third degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical
menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another
person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical
injury.
Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor.

No where in the Penal law section does it say by accident or anything similar.

My points and discussion have all been centered around whether or not the actions of a firearm being displayed were intentional or unintended. Yes, if someone does display a firearm and another person feels threatened by that display, then someone will most likely get arrested. I fully agree.

If there was no intent and it was an accident, meaning, that there was no active display, then that's all it is - an accident. That's like comparing someone intentionally ramming another car with their own or hitting that other car by accident. One was intentional and the other was not. Yes, someone's going to be cuffed and stuffed in the first case, and in the second, probably not - unless they were doing so by intent.

So....if a motorist gets stopped for a traffic infraction, and they are not concealing their handgun, they could indeed be subject to arrest if the officer/deputy/trooper saw it necessary and if it were warranted. It does not mean that they will, without a doubt, be arrested and charged. That's like telling everyone if you drive over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

If someone gets out of their car for any reason, and they did not put their coat/jacket/long shirt/whatever back on to cover their firearm because they did not want to, then yes, they could be subject to arrest if someone complained, felt threatened, or if a LEO saw them and felt it necessary to do so.

Both situations included a clear intent to not conceal the handgun and there are consequences to those actions - possibly.

In a case where the coat/shirt/whatever is blown open by a gust of wind, or rides up from sitting, or is pulled open when reaching for a wallet....that is an accident. No intent, no malice, no anything other than a purely accidental occurrence.

Don't get me wrong, I do tell people to do whatever you can to keep the handgun concealed at all times. It is your duty to not let anyone know you have a gun. Period. BUT I also tell them that a simple mistake may not cause you a headache, or it could. You never know. I try to get them to think about it and hope they never find out.


I've said my piece, offered my information, and had fun discussing this. But I will not get drawn into a posting argument. It just will not do any good.

Thank you for your information, I hope that the viewers enjoyed our exchange of ideas and thoughts. I will be the one that offer the idea that we probably should agree to disagree and we can leave it at that.

Take care
Damage control "display a handgun placing a person in fear".Displaying a gun by accident is no excuse.Ignorance is no excuse.Remember you still well be arrested and lose your gun for an accident.You still can't give legal advice by simply saying that it requires to meet intent & malice for an arrest to be made.Complainant states they were in fear for life after the defendant was observed displaying a silver metal colored pistol while in a public place.The source being the attached statement given by complainant.
 

Mother Pearl

Mother Pearl
I feel compelled to respond to 'hunter won'. I live in NYS in a county that issues CCR and will upgrade to CCW after additional training. I have obtained my NY CCW, PA CCW, NH CCW, and UT CCW. I can legally carry concealed in 33 states, unless there is an ordinance in a particular State, County, Town, Village, City, Hamlet, or Parish that directs me otherwise. Some states do not require that you have a pistol permit to carry. If I travel to or through any other state than my home state, I always check the firearms laws before I leave my home to make sure I am compliant.

In New York State, I can transport a rifle in my vehicle on the seat as long as it is unloaded, nothing is chambered, and any ammunition is locked in a container and not within my reach.

Federal Law gives me the right to transport my legally registered firearm from one state where I may legally carry it, across a second state where I cannot carry it as long as I am passing through, to a third state where I may legally carry it.

Where I live in NYS, accidental exposure of a concealed firearm is just that - accidental. If it occurs in a store where some one sees it, often times a manager will approach and ask. It is then his/her decision as to whether I must leave the store or not. If a LEO is called, s/he will probably question me and perhaps escort me to my vehicle. As long as I am civil about the situation, I will NOT be arrested because there is no probable cause. However, if i am NOT civil, the ballgame changes, and I most likely would be taken into custody for Public Display or some other minor charge unless I resist the officer.

On the other hand, if some young punk is giving me a difficult time, I cannot pull open my cover shirt and show him that I have a firearm. THAT is threatening. THAT will get me arrested and cause me to lose my license and my firearms. I cannot pull my firearm from my holster and wave it around in the air. THAT is brandishing and will have the same cause and effect.

If I am stopped while driving, I have no obligation to inform the officer that I have a firearm on my person unless s/he asks or I am asked to step out of the vehicle. At that point, I would very politely say, "Officer, I want to inform you that I have a legally registered firearm on my person. What would you like me to do?" while keeping my hands where the officer can see them. Again, unless I cause a display, resist, get mouthy, throw a fit, or whatever, I will NOT be arrested because there is no probable cause.

I agree that New York City is a world unto itself. Police officers traveling from a home location outside of the city into the city to take custody of an inmate for transport to their home location must relieve themselves of their firearms at the nearest precinct to their entry location and retrieve them when they leave the city. Residents of the five boroughs of New York City can obtain a pistol permit, but they are not allowed to take it outside of the city, or into any of the other boroughs. No one is allowed to transport a handgun through any part of New York City. Federal Law is pre-empted. So, if someone in New Jersey want to take a firearm to New Hampshire, they will have to find a route around the city to do so.

I, personally, never leave home without my firearm. The only places I do not carry are those where I am prohibited by law from carrying: schools; churches (if posted); Federal buildings including Post Offices; State Parks; and anywhere else it is posted. Why? because police officers don't exist to protect us; they exist to clean up the mess and maybe catch the bad guy or gal. And I train, train, train to stay on top of my game.
 

hunter won

New member
I feel compelled to respond to 'hunter won'. I live in NYS in a county that issues CCR and will upgrade to CCW after additional training. I have obtained my NY CCW, PA CCW, NH CCW, and UT CCW. I can legally carry concealed in 33 states, unless there is an ordinance in a particular State, County, Town, Village, City, Hamlet, or Parish that directs me otherwise. Some states do not require that you have a pistol permit to carry. If I travel to or through any other state than my home state, I always check the firearms laws before I leave my home to make sure I am compliant.

In New York State, I can transport a rifle in my vehicle on the seat as long as it is unloaded, nothing is chambered, and any ammunition is locked in a container and not within my reach.

Federal Law gives me the right to transport my legally registered firearm from one state where I may legally carry it, across a second state where I cannot carry it as long as I am passing through, to a third state where I may legally carry it.

Where I live in NYS, accidental exposure of a concealed firearm is just that - accidental. If it occurs in a store where some one sees it, often times a manager will approach and ask. It is then his/her decision as to whether I must leave the store or not. If a LEO is called, s/he will probably question me and perhaps escort me to my vehicle. As long as I am civil about the situation, I will NOT be arrested because there is no probable cause. However, if i am NOT civil, the ballgame changes, and I most likely would be taken into custody for Public Display or some other minor charge unless I resist the officer.

On the other hand, if some young punk is giving me a difficult time, I cannot pull open my cover shirt and show him that I have a firearm. THAT is threatening. THAT will get me arrested and cause me to lose my license and my firearms. I cannot pull my firearm from my holster and wave it around in the air. THAT is brandishing and will have the same cause and effect.

If I am stopped while driving, I have no obligation to inform the officer that I have a firearm on my person unless s/he asks or I am asked to step out of the vehicle. At that point, I would very politely say, "Officer, I want to inform you that I have a legally registered firearm on my person. What would you like me to do?" while keeping my hands where the officer can see them. Again, unless I cause a display, resist, get mouthy, throw a fit, or whatever, I will NOT be arrested because there is no probable cause.

I agree that New York City is a world unto itself. Police officers traveling from a home location outside of the city into the city to take custody of an inmate for transport to their home location must relieve themselves of their firearms at the nearest precinct to their entry location and retrieve them when they leave the city. Residents of the five boroughs of New York City can obtain a pistol permit, but they are not allowed to take it outside of the city, or into any of the other boroughs. No one is allowed to transport a handgun through any part of New York City. Federal Law is pre-empted. So, if someone in New Jersey want to take a firearm to New Hampshire, they will have to find a route around the city to do so.

I, personally, never leave home without my firearm. The only places I do not carry are those where I am prohibited by law from carrying: schools; churches (if posted); Federal buildings including Post Offices; State Parks; and anywhere else it is posted. Why? because police officers don't exist to protect us; they exist to clean up the mess and maybe catch the bad guy or gal. And I train, train, train to stay on top of my game.
Always be civil never argue.If a store manager calls the police on you because they observed the weapon just be very nice and say to them I have a permit to carry and wait with the store manager for the police to arrive so they may see your permit.I was at Walmart last year trying to purchase ammo when I was asked for a pistol permit by the salesperson.She asked me if I had a gun on me and politely said no to her.This person began to tell me how offended she is by people who hunt and own guns.This Walmart was upstate not in NYC so it goes to tell you that many people don't like guns or hunting.I'm for civilian carry have no problem with it.I like the fact that you train and stay on top of your game.
 
"....and after interviewing the subject, RO determined that subject's actions were not intentional as described by complainant and after checking the CCW permit provided by subject and getting a negative wants/warrants check, RO advised subject of concealment requirements and released subject after finishing attached IR (Incident Report). RO found no reasonable cause to believe a violation of law was committed"

Just an example of a call I was dispatched to (Man with gun) where things were not as they were reported. The guys polo shirt rode up and expose the grip of the gun when he reached up to a top shelf. A kid saw it and told his Mom who then told the store manager, who then called police about the gun carrying terrorist in Wal-Mart. Of course we responded with 4 units and started our Tac-Ops team. I saw the 'subject' walking out with two grocery bags in each arm. I discreetly cornered him and he was a bit surprised at all the coppers looking at him. After explaining what was going on, the subject fully complied, was embarrassed, and felt bad to have all that attention for an accident. Did we overreact? Nope. Was there an overruse of law enforcement? Nope. It was not needed. He did not break the law. We even called the DA to keep him in the loop because of the way the call went out. The DA said: "No crime, no problem, just ask him to be more careful and send him home"

End of story.

Could this have had a different ending in a different are of the state? Probably, but not absolutely. There is no absolute with this stuff.

As I said before, I am out. Get in the last word, comment, or whatever. I have offered info, and enjoyed the chat. There is no use continuing if the info is not being received and understood.

I will agree that we disagree. That's OK. Making blanket statements like "always" are reckless and not entirely true. There are way too many variables in this to do so.

Yes, in some areas, you MIGHT be arrested, even if your handgun accidentally becomes visible. BUT, in some areas, you MIGHT NOT.

There, I said it. MIGHT NOT........it all depends on the area, the LEO on the scene, the DA, the Judge, etc. The list goes on and on.

Enjoy the posts everyone, hope you learned something.

The moral of the story is to be discreet, be careful, and be legal - whatever that may consist of in your area.

Done


Fin


See ya


Over and out
 

ricardo900

New member
Residents of the five boroughs of New York City can obtain a pistol permit, but they are not allowed to take it outside of the city, or into any of the other boroughs. No one is allowed to transport a handgun through any part of New York City.

a quick correction, a nyc resident is allowed to take his firearms out of the 5 boroughs if he is in possession of a "hunters autherization card"(the green card). This card amends his permit and allows the permit holder to take his guns out of the city.
 

hunter won

New member
"....and after interviewing the subject, RO determined that subject's actions were not intentional as described by complainant and after checking the CCW permit provided by subject and getting a negative wants/warrants check, RO advised subject of concealment requirements and released subject after finishing attached IR (Incident Report). RO found no reasonable cause to believe a violation of law was committed"

Just an example of a call I was dispatched to (Man with gun) where things were not as they were reported. The guys polo shirt rode up and expose the grip of the gun when he reached up to a top shelf. A kid saw it and told his Mom who then told the store manager, who then called police about the gun carrying terrorist in Wal-Mart. Of course we responded with 4 units and started our Tac-Ops team. I saw the 'subject' walking out with two grocery bags in each arm. I discreetly cornered him and he was a bit surprised at all the coppers looking at him. After explaining what was going on, the subject fully complied, was embarrassed, and felt bad to have all that attention for an accident. Did we overreact? Nope. Was there an overruse of law enforcement? Nope. It was not needed. He did not break the law. We even called the DA to keep him in the loop because of the way the call went out. The DA said: "No crime, no problem, just ask him to be more careful and send him home"

End of story.

Could this have had a different ending in a different are of the state? Probably, but not absolutely. There is no absolute with this stuff.

As I said before, I am out. Get in the last word, comment, or whatever. I have offered info, and enjoyed the chat. There is no use continuing if the info is not being received and understood.

I will agree that we disagree. That's OK. Making blanket statements like "always" are reckless and not entirely true. There are way too many variables in this to do so.

Yes, in some areas, you MIGHT be arrested, even if your handgun accidentally becomes visible. BUT, in some areas, you MIGHT NOT.

There, I said it. MIGHT NOT........it all depends on the area, the LEO on the scene, the DA, the Judge, etc. The list goes on and on.

Enjoy the posts everyone, hope you learned something.

The moral of the story is to be discreet, be careful, and be legal - whatever that may consist of in your area.

Done


Fin


See ya


Over and out
Incident report reads like this The undersigned responded to the above I/L negative criminal activity noted Subject was advised to properly conceal weapon and take a class at Rochester Personal Defense.
 

Rev72

Surviving Since '72!
Don't mean to offend anyone but...I left a number of other message groups do to "in-fighting." I understand this is a learning experience for people but there are better ways to clarify matters then by calling credentials and backgrounds in to question. Utilize the private messaging feature here but don't have a public pissing contest. It detracts from the reason why we are all here...
 

hunter won

New member
Don't mean to offend anyone but...I left a number of other message groups do to "in-fighting." I understand this is a learning experience for people but there are better ways to clarify matters then by calling credentials and backgrounds in to question. Utilize the private messaging feature here but don't have a public pissing contest. It detracts from the reason why we are all here...
This was in no way making fun of his credentials even if he was just a part time cop in rural upstate.The issue was that you can not be arrested for menacing without malice and intent.Not everyone here that visits this site understands law enforcement.Rules & Procedure may require an officer make an arrest with a sworn affidavit signed by the complainant.The reason I became very vocale was that this was coming from an instructor and owner of a self defense school that people here trust & believe.Proper training is key,I'm glad that Dave realized I was making it a point for the safety of everyone and get him to agree that you could be arrested for such a mistake.The last thing we need is an overzelous officer.It's a shame but most cops are not gun buffs.Its a tool that they don't even carry off duty.Like I said some poor slob lost his pistol permit for an honest mistake.Keep it concealed and be safe.
 

Rev72

Surviving Since '72!
Hunter...I never said that anyone was making fun of anyone's credentials. Please don't misquote me. However, I am not saying you are right or wrong. The both of you were just going at it "hot and heavy" and we should look to educate each other without it turning in to an argument. And there will always be overzealous offices out there...unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that.
 

Mother Pearl

Mother Pearl
a quick correction, a nyc resident is allowed to take his firearms out of the 5 boroughs if he is in possession of a "hunters autherization card"(the green card). This card amends his permit and allows the permit holder to take his guns out of the city.

Thank you for the correction. Nice catch. I forgot about the 'green card'.
 

Jingles

New member
Reciprocity with concealed permit between VA. And NY State

I assume that there is no reciprocity between NY and VA when you have a VA concealed permit. Am I correct?
 

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