New to the forum, gun user since 1999. Insurance?


S

skyler

New member
Hi, I'm Mary from Virginia. I got my first handgun- a S&W 357- in 1999 when someone set our pack porch on fire with gas in a container for our bike.
We didn't know if it was personal or random. I immediately went to the gun shop and bought the biggest caliber handgun I could handle. I also got my CCP.
I have never concealed or open carried. The 357 is big for cc, but would be ok under a coat.
I'm looking right now for a smaller handgun specifically for cc. I've looked at four or five subcompact semiautomatics, but can handle a revolver easier. I've still not ruled out the semi auto.
I've been able to rack the subcompact semi autos. This was a problem until a friendly gun dealer taught me to push the gun forward not try to rack by pulling back.
The end of October I will have saved enough money to make my decision so I'll keep doing research until then.

How many of you have purchased self defense insurance from USCCA, the NRA, or someone else?
I can't think of many cons, perhaps you could point out any to me. I'm about ready to start carrying and am still wrestling the million questions we ask ourselves when taking on this responsibility.
I realize I need a lot more time on the range and need to keep my skills up.
Thanks, this is a great forum.
Mary
 

First and foremost welcome to the forum, and what a great first time question.

I personally have never got into those self-defense insurances or the legal fund services that are out there for gun owners. Here are my reasons:

- I have the money to retain a lawyer
- I'd rather rely on a lawyer I know in the area that I can put on speed dial if/when I'm in a situation
- There are a lot of fine print lines in some of these contracts... limits on how much they will pay in legal fees until they stop representing you, etc.
- I personally like to be in control rather than another entity... so, I have researched and found the lawyer of my choosing.

Now, with this said, a lot of folk do not have the funds to do what I've done. If this is the case, and you can afford the monthly or annual fee, but not retain a lawyer on your own, then these groups do offer a service that can be beneficial. As with anything else, do your own research and since you know your financial situation better than ours, weigh the options, but ultimately the decision will come down to what works best for you.

I hope this helps.
 
Carry guns. I personally have difficulty with the tiny subcompacts. Not enough grip for three fingers; not enough rounds without reloading, and expanding with extended mags makes them too wobbly for me. My favorite, although I don't have one right now, is the mid size Glock line (G19,23,32,38). The are compact and light yet still have 4" barrels and three finger grips. Indeed, the Glock 19 is probably the single most popular concealed handgun among professionals (police, instructors, accessory mfrs, etc.) I carried one for several years and then sold it to a friend...I still regret selling it.
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Unlike the other guy who posted here, I do favor some kind of prepaid legal or insurance. I would hesitate to buy from USCCA, but NRA might be worth a look. My own coverage is with Texas Law Shield. It's not insurance but rather an agreement to defend civil and/or criminal charges. The agreement is short and clear. I don't have an extra $50 to $100k laying around for a defense fund (which Massad Ayoob suggests is typical defense cost when you use your gun), so I spend the money in little bits now. Both my wife and I have the coverage. I've heard of two instances of Texas Law Shield doing what they said they would, so I'm fairly comfortable with them. I think they're also part of a larger affiliation, but I don't know if it includes Virginia. I selected this firm because they are local. You might find something similar. There is probably a "Virginia Gun Forum" or something where you could inquire of others.
.

P.S. Sorry but I can't seen to get line feeds to separate my paragraphs with this forum and MSIE, so I'm using a "." as a blank line. I'll try Chrome next time.
 
Hi Mary, welcome to the forum. I have posted in another forum about Taurus' latest PT111 G2. I just recently got one and have found it to be EXTREMELY reliable. I've already put over 1,000 rounds through it (thank God for the cheapness of 9mm) and I have yet to clean it. I did this simply because I wanted to test it's reliability and longevity without cleaning it. All 1,000+ rounds have gone through without one single failure to fire or failure to eject. It's an extremely well made gun, feels great in the hand, and holds 12+1 and comes with a spare mag. I do not really care for revolvers (this is just my personal opinion) simply because of the limited capacity. Statistically, LEO's only hit their target 1 out of 5 times in a stressful situation, so personally I want more rounds at my disposal. Again, that's just me. It also has a fairly easy to rack slide.

As for the insurance, that would depend on your state laws for me to even consider it. Here in SC, it would be a waste of money. Reason being because SC laws protect you from civil suits as long as the shooting was found to be justified and you were not found guilty of any crimes related to the shooting. Now I don't know this for sure because I haven't looked into them, but I would guess that if the shooting was found to be an unjustified shooting, the insurance wouldn't cover you either. So if that's the case, then in a justified shooting I'm covered by law, and in an unjustified shooting I'm screwed either way.
 
Welcome to the forum, good to have you aboard. I bought my Angel a S&W 442 snub nose, 5 shot rev for Christmas a few years back. Small, very light, and easy to conceal. You can just about wear it with a tee shirt on. Kicks like a mule because of the weight tho, only problem.
 
Welcome to the club:) this is great group of people here with lots of experience and plenty of opinions. Good luck and enjoy.
 
AndeyHall said:
Hi Mary, welcome to the forum. ... As for the insurance, that would depend on your state laws for me to even consider it. Here in SC, it would be a waste of money. Reason being because SC laws protect you from civil suits as long as the shooting was found to be justified and you were not found guilty of any crimes related to the shooting. Now I don't know this for sure because I haven't looked into them, but I would guess that if the shooting was found to be an unjustified shooting, the insurance wouldn't cover you either. So if that's the case, then in a justified shooting I'm covered by law, and in an unjustified shooting I'm screwed either way.
Click to expand...
Texas law protects the same from civil suits. The catch is the same as yours--you must be not guilty of criminal charges, and that can cost you a lot of money. Ayoob's $50-100k cost is for criminal defense. I urge anyone who carries a gun to read Ayoob's Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry (Amazon: Link Removed) and then decide if you need legal coverage. A simple oversight like not being the first party to call 911 can make the difference.
 
bowserb said:
Texas law protects the same from civil suits. The catch is the same as yours--you must be not guilty of criminal charges, and that can cost you a lot of money. Ayoob's $50-100k cost is for criminal defense. I urge anyone who carries a gun to read Ayoob's Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry (Amazon: Link Removed) and then decide if you need legal coverage. A simple oversight like not being the first party to call 911 can make the difference.
Click to expand...

Does the insurance cover your defense charges in a criminal trial or only civil? Cause that might would be the only upside. Like if it would have covered Zimmermans legal fees for example. But at the end of the day, being judged by 12 (or 6) is much better than being carried by 6.
 
AndeyHall said:
Does the insurance cover your defense charges in a criminal trial or only civil? Cause that might would be the only upside. Like if it would have covered Zimmermans legal fees for example. But at the end of the day, being judged by 12 (or 6) is much better than being carried by 6.
Click to expand...
Texas Law Shield defends both. Of course everyone here agrees with the "better to be..." If you are going to be judged, though, you need a lawyer in your corner, and that can be expensive. You also need that lawyer to know gun laws.
 
The USCCA's insurance covers Civil as well as criminal action. The coverage depends on which policy you buy- they have three levels of protection.
 
the answer to having high levels of stopping power and also low recoil is to use very lw bullets, at very high speeds. As in 50 grs at over 2000 fps. same recoil as 100 grs at 1000 fps,, but 450 ft lbs, not merely 210 ft lbs. Such bullets, at such speeds, can be made and and safely, fired in 9mm pocket autos and .38 snubs, but they pierce Kevlar vests. While that's not illegal, if they have a small lead "core" and are mostly aluminum or zinc, no ammo maker wants to risk the ire of the LEO'S.
 
Nice to meet you Mary. I would recommend trying to rent whatever you want to buy. Personally I can't shoot a pistol if it is too small for my pinky to fit on the grip. It is my own personal quirk I found after firing whatever I could get my hands on.

I carry a HK USP compact, it is a fairly decent sized gun that I can conceal without issue and more importantly I know I can hit my target. I do not carry any insurance other than what the NRA offers all members. Based on where I live and the local crime rate I feel confident that my chances of having to use my firearm are low. That decision may bite me in the butt some day, but we all have to make that decision for ourselves.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
 
thru said:
the answer to having high levels of stopping power and also low recoil is to use very lw bullets, at very high speeds. As in 50 grs at over 2000 fps. same recoil as 100 grs at 1000 fps,, but 450 ft lbs, not merely 210 ft lbs. Such bullets, at such speeds, can be made and and safely, fired in 9mm pocket autos and .38 snubs, but they pierce Kevlar vests. While that's not illegal, if they have a small lead "core" and are mostly aluminum or zinc, no ammo maker wants to risk the ire of the LEO'S.
Click to expand...
The handgun stopping power myth persists, but the truth is the old saying that a pistol is to fight your way back to your rifle. 55grains of 5.56mm at 3,000fps with a round that tumbles when it strikes flesh...that is the definition of stopping power. All pistols are weak in comparison. Look at this study:
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An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
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Actual shootings were studied, and the bottom line was that no matter what the round, an average of 2-3 hits (not shots) were required to stop a person. The larger rounds did a little better in that they had fewer instances of the BG not stopping at all and more instances of stopping with one hit. However, those differences were not significant. A .22 was not as bad compared to .44 Magnum as you might expect. Rifles and shotguns were superior to any handgun. Of course we can't carry a concealed rifle or shotgun easily, but the handgun caliber choices are less important than a lot of us "45 shooters" want to believe.
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Along the lines of thru's post, Federal's Guard Dog defensive ammo takes that approach. Their Guard Dog .45ACP, for example, is a 165gr bullet, compared to 230gr Hydra-Shok, and its muzzle velocity is 1140 compared to 900 for HS. Muzzle energy is 476ftlbs compared with 414 for HS, but it drops faster, although it doesn't fall below HS until about 60 yards--well beyond normal handgun self defense range. At ten yards, GD is still 450ftlbs compared to about 409 for HS.
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Looking for power in a lightweight round, I think the .357Sig wins in semiauto rounds. Federal's JHP 125gr round exits the barrel at 1350fps and 560ftlbs of energy. At ten yards, it's still going 1325fps with 480ftlbs of energy. Of course, it's harder to find and more expensive than the common calibers, and no one ever referred to .357Sig as a low-recoil round! "Loud and violent" was the last thing I heard someone say when he shot a Glock 32. I didn't shoot it, but with my foam earplugs PLUS Peltors, it was really loud, two lanes over.
 
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