New to carry, retention questions

[Nicholas A.]

I was wondering, most of my thoughts had been off of open carry and having a level 3 or level 4. With concealed carry is just as advisable to have a level 3 or higher retention or do you just have a simple pull out holster? I ask because my holster can be mounted to different rigs. So which is better for concealed carry?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Most people I know that carry concealed carry retention level I. I carry retention level II open carry and level I concealed.

What's retention level 4 btw? Friction, release, hood, and another hood over the release?

 

[Billy_B]

A hand gun retention class saved my life when I was LEO. There is so much more to learn than just having a good holster

 

[MamaLiberty]

A hand gun retention class saved my life when I was LEO. There is so much more to learn than just having a good holster

Never was any kind of cop, but I must agree, Billy. There's just SOOOO much more to self defense than guns and gear...

 

[Megadrone]

I have a Blackhawk CQC level II open or concealed. Never had a problem in thousands of draws.



ex-NRA Certified instructor: Handgun, Self Defense, Home Protection and Certified Range Safety Officer

 

[Nicholas A.]

The level 4 portion is an guard by the thumb release of the hood to help minimize access from other angles other then the user.

 

[Nicholas A.]

Well just ran into a problem. My problem is my light/laser combo turns out does not fit my holster so I'm stuck between a rock and a rather hard place. I can't return the holster and I can't return the light/laser combo. So my options are do I sell the holster or sell the light system?

 

[SGB]

A retention level is determined by the separate and distinct motions necessary to release the sidearm from the holster. Most concealed carry holsters are 0 as they do not have a physical mechanism retaining the sidearm in the holster. QUALITY concealed carry holsters manage retention through a close friction fit.

The most common form of retention for concealed carry holsters is the antiquated thumb break which would make the holster a threat level 1.

Further not all retention designs are necessarily good ones.

The Serpa's method of retention has been the center of so many self inflicted injuries and malfunctions locking the gun into the holster that many ranges, LE agencies and nationally known Trainers have banned their use.

The best weapons retention a citizen has going for them is their situational awareness and proactive weapons retention training.

:dirol:.... my carry rig

" Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician"

 

[Nicholas A.]

Very good point. The current holster I have while the original rig isn't concealed is the safariland 6305. I have a quick attach system so that I can move the holster from the thigh rig to a higher belt holster, but I'm considering also getting another more concealable holster. While I feel as though I have situational awareness from previous work I would like the added security of retention levels.

 

[convos]

I was wondering, most of my thoughts had been off of open carry and having a level 3 or level 4. With concealed carry is just as advisable to have a level 3 or higher retention or do you just have a simple pull out holster? I ask because my holster can be mounted to different rigs. So which is better for concealed carry?

It really depends on what feels comfortable and safe to you. Everyone here probably has experience in different situations and also likely have a lot of practice with whatever setup they decided on. In my opinion, as a LEO/military guy, level 3 and up retention is really for open carry situations and serves mostly to protect LEOs as they are consistently in situations that warrant that need for retention. As a private citizen/concealed carry - you are not likely a target for a gun grab, as the weapon isnt visible, and if you are being a smart citizen and responsible permit holder, aren't putting yourself in those kinds of situations that cops find themselves in as part of their job. Also, anything above a level 2 is pretty hard to conceal, as the holsters get bulkier. when on duty, i carry level 3 - when not, i carry either iwb, or owb with 0 - occasionally i will carry in a blackhawk serpa if the weather is cold enough to wear a jacket (i am a very skinny white boy so my concealment options are a little less).

Also - what kind of activities are you planning to engage in while carrying? just walking? running? biking? the environment and activities you participate in while carrying should weigh in that consideration also.

Regardless of what you decide - and it is a decision you have to make for yourself - practice a lot with the rig you choose.

 

[SGB]

Very good point. The current holster I have while the original rig isn't concealed is the safariland 6305. I have a quick attach system so that I can move the holster from the thigh rig to a higher belt holster, but I'm considering also getting another more concealable holster. While I feel as though I have situational awareness from previous work I would like the added security of retention levels.

When I first got into LE my duty holster was a Safariland 10A thumb break, my first serious retention holster was the Safariland SSIII 070 (I LOVED that holster) and through the years I transitioned through the SLS and ALS holsters. Safariland makes the best Duty holsters and their 6377/78 series make for pretty good TL 1 open carry holsters (My 6377 is a TL II as I've added the ALS lock) however their concealed carry holsters are excessively bulky and largely impractical IMHO.

For serious concealed carry the retention provided by a boned holster is more than sufficient.

 

[Deserteagle]

No matter what level retention holster you buy, it will never replace your brain as your best defense. Sounds to me like you are trying to place responsibility on the holster to keep you safe rather than take responsibility yourself for keeping yourself safe. Not insulting you.

 

[UATKP]

Through some quirk of internetting happenstance, I stumbled onto Michael Mah's video on how he made his own concealed carry holster. So, while I was waiting around the rehab/hospital system for my paraplegic Son's surgery and recovery, I used the time to make a holster of my own... sort of like a type of therapy for my mind.
The first one I made was a holster for my Judge, patterned after the old west style complete with cartridge belt. I used merely a leather thong for retention in it. I don't know what it would be classified as... probably a 1.
Then I made three more.
The second holster was for carrying my Bersa .380 in the middle of the back, OWB. It didn't work well enough, as the leather I used was too thin, and I'm too old to twist myself around for two-handed reholstering.
I have since made two more holsters for my Bersa .380 to be carried at 3:00, OWB. Each one has gotten a little better. They are hand stitched using woven 30# test braided fishing line. I used a deer antler to bone the last ones. I don't think I boned them enough, after seeing some professionally made boned holsters; but they're good enough for me. One of them is still almost too tight, but it's getting better.
All that said, I believe that, as SGB wrote, if you have a good boned holster for concealed carry it should work very well, retention-wise. If you're going to open carry, I think you'll need more retention... depending on the location you'll most likely be in.

 

[Nicholas A.]

No matter what level retention holster you buy, it will never replace your brain as your best defense. Sounds to me like you are trying to place responsibility on the holster to keep you safe rather than take responsibility yourself for keeping yourself safe. Not insulting you.

I'm not trying to replace brains its more of while I am confident in my situational awareness but no matter how confident I am in mine there is always room for improvement on where I am at and there is always that one time, but in all honesty I would much rather have a little bit of extra security so to speak. While I have learned a lot from past work in security I know I still have a ways to go and I can truly admit I still have more to learn

 

[Etkini]

I don't see the point in using a retention (other than maybe a friction lock Kydex or something) holster for CC'ing IWB, as not only would you have to remove your garments which could take 1-2 seconds, you'd then have to draw which could take another 1-2 seconds. I personally just use a Kydex on leather holster from Cleveland's Holsters (similar to a Crossbreed Super Tuck Deluxe) when and if I CC. Since I usually OC, I have a couple different holsters I'll wear. I kind of like the Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster, and since that's a little slimmer than my Safariland 6360 it sees more use. I understand a lot of people and groups don't like them as some people have shot themselves using them, but 99% of the time they were either going too fast for their skill level or not paying attention to where their digits were. As for the dirt getting stuck in it.. well I really do need to practice that more and put mine through some hell before I can comment, but I don't generally roll around on the ground or fight in a desert, so I'm not really worried about it. It gets a function check 2-5 times a day, regardless.

However, it doesn't matter what kind or level retention holster you use, even more important than that is knowing how to deflect or fight off someone trying to grab for your weapon. If you have to figure it out while they're trying to grab it, it's too late and you might as well have just handed it to them or shot yourself. I recall spending a few days on that topic during my stay at the academy, and they're points that really hit home to me.

 

[Nicholas A.]

Very true, I've had to help a former co-worker in fight and thankfully local PD was able to stop the guy. Its amazing how fast the fight ends when the BG has a gun to their back as well as two other people grappling him

 

[Nicholas A.]

I was wondering, for a more concealable holster I understand its a give and take on things. I was wondering with retention most go with just what would be called a level 1 holster, where my question on retention is, is it worth having a thumb break on the holster? I understand I'm asking a lot but its the best way to learn. I understand that the in the waste band holsters are more concealable then out of the waste band I was wondering what the comfort is of the in the waste band or is it something you get used to and just becomes a part of what is normal for you?

 

[Firefighterchen]

I was wondering, for a more concealable holster I understand its a give and take on things. I was wondering with retention most go with just what would be called a level 1 holster, where my question on retention is, is it worth having a thumb break on the holster? I understand I'm asking a lot but its the best way to learn. I understand that the in the waste band holsters are more concealable then out of the waste band I was wondering what the comfort is of the in the waste band or is it something you get used to and just becomes a part of what is normal for you?

Thumb break really has to do with life style (how active) and confidence. Comfort wise, I have always find owb more comfortable. There are very nice iwb that mitigate the comfort very well though. The hybrid holsters (crossbreed for example) are very popular.

 

[SGB]

.... Where my question on retention is, is it worth having a thumb break on the holster?

imho ......................no

 

[Nicholas A.]

Thank you very much everyone for giving such good info and having such good insight on everything.