Need opinion on a robbery situation.

[glock 27]

Heres a story I would like some info on.

Recently my buddy and I were robbed at gun point by 2 guys while in my friends garage. They got a couple hundred bucks from us. I didn't have my gun with me at the time, unfortunatley. The gun man pointed the gun in our faces demanded money and when we didn't respond quick enough he fired a shot into the wall and said" he's not joking".

Anyway we gave him what we had they took off and no one was hurt(Thank god). My question is that if I had my gun, I of course would not have been able to draw on him with his gun staring me in the face. But the moment they turned to run out I could have shot them in the back,would that be justified as self defense or being that they were leaving the threat is over? I keep having the scenario play over in my head on what could have happened. Any thoughts?

 

[mrsandman224455]

Bob nailed it. Once the treat is stopped, you can't use lethal force, it could turn to murder at that point. Thank god you and your friend are alright!

 

[glock 27]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[FN1910]

Some very good answers up there. Remember that your gun is to use in defense of yourself not to play LEO with. So often we here people say "If only I had my gun" but we have to think that what would we have done with a gun. Situatonal awareness is great but we should practice it with or without a gun. If the two fellows got the drop on you then it was too late to do anything with you gun other than have a shootout and probably get both of you killed. As stated earlier if they are running away then you are taking a big chance trying to shoot them in the back no matter how much Internet Legal advice you get. If a BG gets the drop on you and has you at gunpoint then that is not the time to try and play Chuch Norris, Barney Fife is more in order. Either way remember that your gun is for defense not offense and shooting a man in the back it usually going to fall into the offense category in most courtrooms, even in Texas unless you are extremely lucky.

 

[mappow]

I would add that if you had been armed and the perp had rob you and turn to run. A Felony would had just been committed and intervention allowed under some States codes. I would check with your State for applicable application and intervention of a Felony stop by a citizen.
I'm sure there will be rebuttal against this BUT it is a option. SC does have laws on the books to protect citizens IF and only IF a Felony is being committed. BE DAM SURE what a Felony is and be DAM SURE about your reaction.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

A turned robber is a threat as long as he is within range.

A bank robber in Oregon took the money and as he was walking out, turned and shot a teller in the head!

If you can justify shooting a criminal, it doesn't matter where you shoot them.

Cowboy macho BS is just that!

-Doc

 

[glock 27]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.I have never been in a situation like that before in my life.I am in Michigan and am going to research some laws here myself pertaining to this situation. I got a call from a Sargeant investigating this case yesterday, and says he has some pictures he wants me to look at. Hopefully they have a lead on this POS!

A turned robber is a threat as long as he is within range.
A bank robber in Oregon took the money and as he was walking out, turned and shot a teller in the head!
If you can justify shooting a criminal, it doesn't matter where you shoot them.

Cowboy macho BS is just that!

-Doc

Kinda what I was thinking but I know each states laws are a little different.Each situation has to be handled differently and carefully. My friends girlfriend was in and out of the garage that day and I thought of what they would have done had she walked in on that situation.Thank god no one was hurt.

 

[PaulIcemanMc]

No way, you would likely be prosecuted for murder in that situation. Most states laws are written that you need to be under a present and immediate danger. If he has your money and is already running away, and you feel safe, then you are no longer justified.

I don't know if this fellow is exactly correct. I saw on this forum, one time, a situation in a restaurant where the employees fired as the three young men retreated with their ill gotten gain and I believe one was killed and the prosecuter said that no charges would be filed against the employees. Of course the families of the three offenders were aghast at what happened to those nice young men....

 

[tcox4freedom]

I think you did GREAT!!

IMHO; the more important thing to be concerned with is improving you situational "awareness".

Ask yourself questions like what we may have done to prevent being robbed in the 1st place. (Keep the garage door closed and locked etc; maybe next time take turns moving around so at least one person can see any potential danger approaching.)

Do an "honest" self-evaluation to discovey "WHY" these BG's chose "you" to be their victim.

Remember the #1 rule of SD is "AVOIDANCE"
(Do things that will help you "AVOID" becoming a victim.)


Secondly; Be as "AWARE" as you possibly can to your surroundings.
Good questions to ask yourself throughout your day to help maintain "Awareness" are-
1. Where and attack may come from?
2. How to be more "prepared" should the attack come?
AND
3. How to guard against an attack should it come?

Finally; Do a pro-vs-con "ASSESSMENT" of your activities and your situational "AWARENESS" throughout your day.
(This will help you "TRAIN your BRAIN" to better AVOID and remain ALERT to "possible" dangers.)

 

[oakchas]

Yeah, they could have shot you on the way out, I suppose. Let's assume their level of training is a good as yours... Next time you are at the range (if you are able to do this at your range) after you walk up range to check your target... start walking back, turn around and shoot at the target... Not aimed fire... just turn around and shoot. How'd that work for you?

Now back to probablilities... they started heading off with your money... they are belting, or holstering, or pocketing thier guns. No threat... Can't shoot.

Citizens arrest... most statutes contain the words "in commision of a felony" They are no longer in commision of the felony, that has already occured. They are walking away. Can't shoot.

You had better be 100% certain of your legal rights AND obligations... In my state you can always be legally right, morally right, and civilly liable.

In your scenario, if you had been carrying, your best shot was when he fired at the wall... and, he would have had to turn quite a bit to take his shot at the wall for you to be safe in drawng and making yours.

In the end, it was a couple hundred bux. I carry "drop money" separate from my useful money... I'll give that to 'em... I may drop it... acting like I'm all flustered... if they go for it, there may be, if the opportunity presents itself, a gun pointed at their head...

Never carry all your money in one place. Always have chump change to give away... It can save the day, give you an opportunity, or end the threat.

Once you are certain of your engagement... be absolutely relentless... decisive... terminal.

Carry on...

 

[6shootercarry]

If the BG is dead it's your word vs. his. Dead men never tell lies.
If he had a gun in my face and then fired one into the wall to let me know he was not taking my delay kindly, he would be shot dead. No questions asked.
The fact that he discharged one in your presence gives you the right. You could say he fired back at you when he was fleeing with the money. You drew and fired your shots (yea I wrote shots meaning more than one) in response to that fearing for your life feeling. His back happened to be toward you when you discharged all 13, 14, 15 rounds due to the adrenaline surge in response to his shot at you...

Carry it wherever you can whenever you can. Clean underwear, clean socks, deodorant / antiperspirant, wallet, pocket knife / Leatherman tool, firearm...
Glad he was not ready to up the stakes and commit murder. God Bless.

Peace...

 

[glock 27]

I think you did GREAT!!

IMHO; the more important thing to be concerned with is improving you situational "awareness".

Ask yourself questions like what we may have done to prevent being robbed in the 1st place. (Keep the garage door closed and locked etc; maybe next time take turns moving around so at least one person can see any potential danger approaching.)

Do an "honest" self-evaluation to discovey "WHY" these BG's chose "you" to be their victim.

Remember the #1 rule of SD is "AVOIDANCE"
(Do things that will help you "AVOID" becoming a victim.)


Secondly; Be as "AWARE" as you possibly can to your surroundings.
Good questions to ask yourself throughout your day to help maintain "Awareness" are-
1. Where and attack may come from?
2. How to be more "prepared" should the attack come?
AND
3. How to guard against an attack should it come?

Finally; Do a pro-vs-con "ASSESSMENT" of your activities and your situational "AWARENESS" throughout your day.
(This will help you "TRAIN your BRAIN" to better AVOID and remain ALERT to "possible" dangers.)

I agree,I slipped let my guard down in that situation.I am usually the opposite.

I agree, but the problem is, what happens when the state prosecutor does not think you are justified. All law is subject to interpretation, and his is the only interpretation that really matters (in regards to what charges are brought against you). The guy in your story, was obviously very lucky. Prosecutor's pick and choose who he prosecutes and if he thinks he can win and that being tough on anyone with a gun will improve his future political career, you could very easily end up being persecuted/prosecuted.



If the OP had one of these in his wallet pocket, he could have drawn without any suspicion. ....Yes Mr Criminal, I will give you all the money in my wallet.......BANG.

Link Removed

I think you have a good grasp on things.

Now that there is something to think about having!.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I would have to say that indifferance to all the internet bravado, all of us law abiding people who carry, quietly hope that any type of situation like you described never arises, because armed or not sitting here on your computor you can say all you want, but the truth is you don't honestly know what you would do, I do think that most of us if we could get the drop on the BG while he was even semi faceing us, we would definatly blast him, as far as you not haveing your weapon thats your bad, I realize that at times its not possable to be armed, but ANY time it is possable, have your weapon on you, concealed, or open whatever you wish if legal where you live, personaly I have the toughest time not shooting at A**holes while riding my motorcycle that try to run me over on purpose or because they were doing something else, phone, texting, eating, fixing there hair, or whatever, I mean what chance does a bike have against a car if that dude wants to get you, even a big bike would get busted, alond with you, the first time this happened some years ago, I was lucky to get away, if I was new at riding I would have ended up road kll, called the law when I got home they asked if got a plate number, I had already explaned what happened, how was I supposed to get a plate number?, anyways after that call I called and got our (wife and I) permit classes set up, about 2 months later we got our permits, aand have not ben unarmed since, I also have asked our instuctor about the senario I described while on the bike, he said I would probably get away with it, but a witness would help,...........and as to your question if you plugged the SOB in the back when he ran off legaly you would be wrong, you may get away with it depending on your cops, DA, dudes lawyer, and most important how much money you got to pay your lawyer

 

[handgonnetoter]

Heres a story I would like some info on.

Recently my buddy and I were robbed at gun point by 2 guys while in my friends garage. They got a couple hundred bucks from us. I didn't have my gun with me at the time, unfortunatley. The gun man pointed the gun in our faces demanded money and when we didn't respond quick enough he fired a shot into the wall and said" he's not joking".

Anyway we gave him what we had they took off and no one was hurt(Thank god). My question is that if I had my gun, I of course would not have been able to draw on him with his gun staring me in the face. But the moment they turned to run out I could have shot them in the back,would that be justified as self defense or being that they were leaving the threat is over? I keep having the scenario play over in my head on what could have happened. Any thoughts?

Even though they touched one off into the wall, it was still fired into the wall. Who knows for sure what we would do in the heat of the moment, but I think if you shot them in the back after they were running away, you would probably be sent up on charges. I think it is BS, but I still believe that is what our stupid legal system would probably do to you. If I were in charge, I would pin a medal on your chest for shooting the bastards in the back. You would be doing society a favor.

 

[OldOwl]

I'm pretty sure the law is still "21 feet and closing" in my state. I suspect the keyword is "closing."

I don't think I'd shoot somebody for $200 bucks though. Not worth the aggravation of immediately losing my permit and all my guns and then having to fight to get them back.

In the past few days there has been a rash of break ins during the day in my neighborhood, one block over, access through 2nd floor windows with owners ladders. Sleeping with a .40 cal tonight instead of a .22.

 

[Booga]

Everything depends on state and situation.
There are times when shooting someone in the back without warning is justified. Consider active shooter situations like mass shooters at a school or mall. In my state it is perfectly legal to shoot them in the back because you are preventing further violent felonies.

With a retreating violent felon that has ceased any threat, it's a lot less clear cut, but with the right circumstances it can still be justified so long as there is a reasonable expectation that they are going to commit other violent felonies in the near future. Carjacking at gunpoint where they had to abandon their car while being chased by the cops is one where you could shoot them in the back if you are certain they're going to commit other felony carjackings/hit-and-run/etc..

The problem is that it all comes back to state laws and situations. There is no single answer.

 

[glock 27]

I would have to say that indifferance to all the internet bravado, all of us law abiding people who carry, quietly hope that any type of situation like you described never arises, because armed or not sitting here on your computor you can say all you want, but the truth is you don't honestly know what you would do, I do think that most of us if we could get the drop on the BG while he was even semi faceing us, we would definatly blast him, as far as you not haveing your weapon thats your bad, I realize that at times its not possable to be armed, but ANY time it is possable, have your weapon on you, concealed, or open whatever you wish if legal where you live, personaly I have the toughest time not shooting at A**holes while riding my motorcycle that try to run me over on purpose or because they were doing something else, phone, texting, eating, fixing there hair, or whatever, I mean what chance does a bike have against a car if that dude wants to get you, even a big bike would get busted, alond with you, the first time this happened some years ago, I was lucky to get away, if I was new at riding I would have ended up road kll, called the law when I got home they asked if got a plate number, I had already explaned what happened, how was I supposed to get a plate number?, anyways after that call I called and got our (wife and I) permit classes set up, about 2 months later we got our permits, aand have not ben unarmed since, I also have asked our instuctor about the senario I described while on the bike, he said I would probably get away with it, but a witness would help,...........and as to your question if you plugged the SOB in the back when he ran off legaly you would be wrong, you may get away with it depending on your cops, DA, dudes lawyer, and most important how much money you got to pay your lawyer

Even though they touched one off into the wall, it was still fired into the wall. Who knows for sure what we would do in the heat of the moment, but I think if you shot them in the back after they were running away, you would probably be sent up on charges. I think it is BS, but I still believe that is what our stupid legal system would probably do to you. If I were in charge, I would pin a medal on your chest for shooting the bastards in the back. You would be doing society a favor.

I'm pretty sure the law is still "21 feet and closing" in my state. I suspect the keyword is "closing."

I don't think I'd shoot somebody for $200 bucks though. Not worth the aggravation of immediately losing my permit and all my guns and then having to fight to get them back.

In the past few days there has been a rash of break ins during the day in my neighborhood, one block over, access through 2nd floor windows with owners ladders. Sleeping with a .40 cal tonight instead of a .22.

Everything depends on state and situation.
There are times when shooting someone in the back without warning is justified. Consider active shooter situations like mass shooters at a school or mall. In my state it is perfectly legal to shoot them in the back because you are preventing further violent felonies.

With a retreating violent felon that has ceased any threat, it's a lot less clear cut, but with the right circumstances it can still be justified so long as there is a reasonable expectation that they are going to commit other violent felonies in the near future. Carjacking at gunpoint where they had to abandon their car while being chased by the cops is one where you could shoot them in the back if you are certain they're going to commit other felony carjackings/hit-and-run/etc..

The problem is that it all comes back to state laws and situations. There is no single answer.

I agree with you guys 100%. If had had my gun with me I'm not sure what i would have done in that situation being that they caught us from behind by surprise.And the only chance i would have had would be to shoot them when they were leaving.With the Mi laws I may have been in deep sh$t. I am glad I didnt get shot or have to shoot anyone else and deal with all the legal crap.I will chalk this up as a lesson learned. At the time my gun was a 44mag which i dont like to carry very often because its big and cumbersome. Since the incident i have bought a 40 cal. glock sub compact and carry whenever i can. But I will be A Victim No More.

 

[Booga]

At the time my gun was a 44mag which i dont like to carry very often because its big and cumbersome. Since the incident i have bought a 40 cal. glock sub compact and carry whenever i can. But I will be A Victim No More.

No wonder you weren't carrying. I've got two .44 magnum revolvers and a carbine. I consider all of them hunting guns or home defense guns, not carry guns. Definitely not convenient to carry any of them, much less conceal them.

 

[armyman_83]

If the BG is dead it's your word vs. his. Dead men never tell lies.
If he had a gun in my face and then fired one into the wall to let me know he was not taking my delay kindly, he would be shot dead. No questions asked.
The fact that he discharged one in your presence gives you the right. You could say he fired back at you when he was fleeing with the money. You drew and fired your shots (yea I wrote shots meaning more than one) in response to that fearing for your life feeling. His back happened to be toward you when you discharged all 13, 14, 15 rounds due to the adrenaline surge in response to his shot at you...

Carry it wherever you can whenever you can. Clean underwear, clean socks, deodorant / antiperspirant, wallet, pocket knife / Leatherman tool, firearm...
Glad he was not ready to up the stakes and commit murder. God Bless.

Peace...

I totally Agree.

I would have shot and made sure that guy was dead.

In Alabama I think one would be well within their right. Seeing as you can always say you felt threatened. Maybe he was walking away to grab his buddy so they could wax you both. I wouldn't take that chance.

I carry in my own house when I am in the States. The only place I don't carry is when I work out running (any ideas to combat this?).

 

[Islander]

Totally agree with Armyman. Would have shot to stop the threat. Guys crazy enough to fire a weapon in your garage are crazy enough to turn back around and drill you between the eyes, then rape and kill your wife and kids.

Maybe not? You gonna take that chance?