Nc Laws

[CarolinaJohn]

I recently moved to NC and took the CHL class a couple weeks back. I have yet to get a Tuesday or Thursday off in order to submit the application. It kills me that they only accept the applications two days a week. It kills me more that it averages 120 days to get the thing from the time you submit the application.

With that said, I am disturbed greatly with some of the carry laws.

1. Cannot attend a funeral or a parade carrying.
2. The whole law "Going armed to the terror of the public." Gimme a break!
3. Cannot carry to any place that an admission is charged (OK, I can somewhat see the crowded stadium scenario, but not in a movie theater?
4. I can use deadly force when someone is in the act of breaking into my home, but if that same person has actually gained entry, I must satisfy ALL criteria for the use of deadly force.. AGAIN...are you kidding me?
5. Cannot carry in a State owned park... Oh, I guess there are no violent attacks there huh?

I thought Ohio had some bizarre restrictions....but these are past that. I hope that there are some organizations or polictical action committees here that are actively seeking reform/change to these ridiculous restrictions.

Sorry..I'll get off the soap box.

 

[jtnick]

Yes we really need change in NC, Grass roots NC is working on some of these
but has not got very far . We're trying.

 

[CarolinaJohn]

Man..Ithought it was much more progressive down here. Things move at a Snail's pace. Seems like local Sheriff's are anti CHL for law abiding citizens!

 

[mot mayhem]

Sorry to hear all that Johnny. A lot of that is crap. Good luck. Ohio will always welcome you back w/ open arms brutha !!

 

[CarolinaJohn]

Sorry to hear all that Johnny. A lot of that is crap. Good luck. Ohio will always welcome you back w/ open arms brutha !!

Well, Ohio is not for us anymore. Just cannot deal with all that snow. But thanks...

Back to the subject...No one is on this site from NC that has input as to why all these restrictions are in place in the South of all places?

 

[mot mayhem]

Don't gimme that snow crap, man ! You haven't even missed one winter yet! I am gonna send you some down fed-ex come February to have the mrs. make a snowball and hit you w/ it !! Then, you'll be sick of the snow - lol !!!

 

[CarolinaJohn]

Too funny......

Anyway, funny how two "Ohio" guys are posting in the NC section. Yet, no one is commenting on the restrictions placed on Law Abiding NC citizens.

 

[PA_SIGpacker]

With that said, I am disturbed greatly with some of the carry laws.

1. Cannot attend a funeral or a parade carrying.
2. The whole law "Going armed to the terror of the public." Gimme a break!
3. Cannot carry to any place that an admission is charged (OK, I can somewhat see the crowded stadium scenario, but not in a movie theater?
4. I can use deadly force when someone is in the act of breaking into my home, but if that same person has actually gained entry, I must satisfy ALL criteria for the use of deadly force.. AGAIN...are you kidding me?
5. Cannot carry in a State owned park... Oh, I guess there are no violent attacks there huh?
QUOTE]


Glad I came across your post CarolinaJohn. I may be visiting NC from PA soon and after reading your post I did some research. To my horror, you are coorrect about these bizarre restrictions. What is even more bizarre is that we're talking about the South, which is hard to believe. I really don't understand the reasoning behind any of these restrictions. How long have these laws been in place? What are the criteria for use of deadly force?

What is the atmosphere toward OC in NC? Can't find anything prohibiting it but can't find anything explicitly allowing it either.

Any advice for an out-of-stater while CCing in NC? The main thing that caught my attention is to be wary of what type of restaurants I enter (whether they serve alcohol or not). Are doors posted with signs or anything? How would I know they serve alcohol until I looked at the menu?

 

[CarolinaJohn]

With that said, I am disturbed greatly with some of the carry laws.

1. Cannot attend a funeral or a parade carrying.
2. The whole law "Going armed to the terror of the public." Gimme a break!
3. Cannot carry to any place that an admission is charged (OK, I can somewhat see the crowded stadium scenario, but not in a movie theater?
4. I can use deadly force when someone is in the act of breaking into my home, but if that same person has actually gained entry, I must satisfy ALL criteria for the use of deadly force.. AGAIN...are you kidding me?
5. Cannot carry in a State owned park... Oh, I guess there are no violent attacks there huh?
QUOTE]


Glad I came across your post CarolinaJohn. I may be visiting NC from PA soon and after reading your post I did some research. To my horror, you are coorrect about these bizarre restrictions. What is even more bizarre is that we're talking about the South, which is hard to believe. I really don't understand the reasoning behind any of these restrictions. How long have these laws been in place? What are the criteria for use of deadly force?

What is the atmosphere toward OC in NC? Can't find anything prohibiting it but can't find anything explicitly allowing it either.

Any advice for an out-of-stater while CCing in NC? The main thing that caught my attention is to be wary of what type of restaurants I enter (whether they serve alcohol or not). Are doors posted with signs or anything? How would I know they serve alcohol until I looked at the menu?

I am basically new down here in Carolina. Open carry is permitted in North Carolina, yet they have that stupid law called "Going Armed to the Terror of the Public." Which means that if someone sees your weapon and calls, you will be CHARGED with a violation of the State Gun Laws. That boils down to having your license taken, legal fees and quite possibly the loss of that firearm.

Google North Carolina and that Law. I hope you find it as disturbing as I do. CHL in North Carolina is not as old as I thought. I think they adopted legislation in like 1995. It's worse than Ohio who got legislation through, but accpeted restrictions imposed by the Ohio State Patrol. Since then, Ohio political action committees have worked hard for reforms and they are happening there. Kudos to Ohio!

Here, everything moves at a snail's pace.

To answer your question, not all estrablishments are posted. If you walk in and find that they are serving alcohol, it becomes your responsibility to leave the place and find another eatery, or to secure your weapon in the car.

I know there are some that say just lay low and don't draw attention to your self, but I would never advise anyone to violate the law.

My advice is this...be sure you research the Carolina laws pertaining to carrying concealed. That is true for any state you visit that you have reciprocity with. YOU MUST follow the laws of the state you are in, even if they differ from your home state. You would be hard pressed to claim, "I didn't know..." even if you actually did not know.

I always carry a copy of the reciprocal letter between the Attorney Generals when I travel. That way when you meet an uneducated police officer, you can at least show them that you are valid and the agreement actually exists.

Had I been smart and researched this more before I chose this state to move to..I guarantee I would have selected another State.

I ask questions all the time down here and direct them to people who should know and all I get is the typical..."I dunno." Blows my mind!

Florida.....Now there is a gun friendly State!

Good luck.

 

[dubccat51]

Why it is the way it is...

Welcome to NC!

North Carolina Law has a tradition of changing very slowly over time and a lot of these regulations are to deal with problems that are no longer present. I wish they would change but I do not see it going very fast since a lot of bills to promote concealed carry died in commitee this year.

1. Cannot attend a funeral (family vendettas) or a parade (klan rallies) carrying.

2. The whole law "Going armed to the terror of the public." Gimme a break!

In order to be charged with going armed to the terror of the public a person has to satisfy the following sentence fully:

It is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon (firearm) for the purpose of terrifying others and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others.

If you did not intend to cause terror to others then you are not guilty. A holstered, openly carried firearm does not fit in to that category and the state could never prove that it did as long as you did not threaten or draw your weapon unprovoked on another person.

3. Cannot carry to any place that an admission is charged (OK, I can somewhat see the crowded stadium scenario, but not in a movie theater?)

No clue, this prohibition is probably aimed at nightclubs (which already serve alcohol), but it should be changed because individual establishments can already decide if they want to allow weapons or not. I don't know of many stadiums and arenas that would allow firearms.

4. I can use deadly force when someone is in the act of breaking into my home, but if that same person has actually gained entry, I must satisfy ALL criteria for the use of deadly force.. AGAIN...are you kidding me?

I agree that this one is pretty stupid but the castle doctrine died in committee this session.

5. Cannot carry in a State owned park... Oh, I guess there are no violent attacks there huh?

The concealed carry in a public park bill died in committee this session as well.

The bills that were introduced this year would have gone a long way to repealing a lot of these regulations. As I mentioned earlier, the Castle Doctrine and Park Carry Bills died in committee along with the Restaurant Protection Act. The Restaurant Protection act would allow CHP holders to carry in any establishment that has a portion that normally and customarily serves food and was originally intended to get rid of the prohibition for restaurants that serve alcohol but I think would have went a lot further since theatres, schools, some bars, etc. also serve food. Personally, I feel that if a person has a CHP, they should be able to carry everywhere as long as they do not consume alcohol. We should base prohibitions on people instead of places since crime does not stop where CHP holders cannot carry.

 

[tattedupboy]

To my surprise, I did not see any of you mention that NC also does not allow CC in financial institutions (although open carry in these places is OK). Easily, NC, together with Ohio (the ridiculous car carry restrictions), Georgia (many similar off limits places, in addition to it being a felony to carry while on public transportation), Michigan (the only shall issue state that requires handgun registration) and New Mexico(a felony to OC in any place that sells alcohol, even for off premises consumption, as well as allowing only one concealed gun at a time) are, among shall issue states, the five worst. Why can't they all be like New Hampshire, which doesn't have a minimum age requirement for a permit, only charges $10 for a resident permit ($20 for nonresidents), and has courthouses as its only off limits place.

 

[CarolinaJohn]

To my surprise, I did not see any of you mention that NC also does not allow CC in financial institutions (although open carry in these places is OK). Easily, NC, together with Ohio (the ridiculous car carry restrictions), Georgia (many similar off limits places, in addition to it being a felony to carry while on public transportation), Michigan (the only shall issue state that requires handgun registration) and New Mexico(a felony to OC in any place that sells alcohol, even for off premises consumption, as well as allowing only one concealed gun at a time) are, among shall issue states, the five worst. Why can't they all be like New Hampshire, which doesn't have a minimum age requirement for a permit, only charges $10 for a resident permit ($20 for nonresidents), and has courthouses as its only off limits place.

Oh..I forgot about the Bank restriction. I still have issues about carryin on School Property too. Especially Universities after Virginia Tech. Yet, daily you read about violent attacks at even the local High Schools. I guess the gang bangers and other hoodlums don't recognize that it is not permitted for them to have a firearm on school property.

I am not clear as to why ALL financial institutions are off limits. I can see individual companies not wanting you to be in there...by why let the State govern that?

I also agree that one should be able to carry anywhere except if the individual is consuming alcohol.

As far as the "Going Armed to the Terror of the Public," I beg to differ. If an individual like a liberal Soccer Mom or a Grandma can prove she was afraid of the firearm, they WILL charge you with the crime.

Found this on "The High Road":
There is a common-law offense in NC called "going armed to the terror of the people." Basically what this means is that if someone sees you carrying a firearm and calls the police to report "person with a gun," you can be charged with this offense. It's not often used in rural areas, but has been used in populated areas. If you are an out-of-state visitor who is not here lawfully hunting or engaged in some overt firearms-related event such as a competition, it will be hard to talk your way out of it.

So is open carry legal in NC? In theory, yes. In practice, maybe. It seems to us like a very good way to get arrested.

And this...
That bad part about NC law is that individual counties, and sometimes cities, get to interpret this how they want.
Which means that the officer can decide you're "going armed to the terror of the people" by simply wearing a gun "just to get attention" or "cause a scene." And, if you've been using your google fu on open carry, you've no doubt seen the videos where o/c types get harassed and accused of attention seeking.

Bottom line is: You could get cuffed and stuffed, processed, and then get the opportunity to have the ultimate "reasonable man" decide whether or not you are indeed going armed to the terror of the people.

Who wants to be the test case?

NC law says that if you are convicted of any firearms offense, your confiscated firearm cannot be returned to you. It will either be turned over to a local law enforcement department for their use or (most likely) destroyed. THAT'S ANY FIREARMS OFFENSE whether Misdemeanor or Felony!

So then, like I must prove that I am in fear of dying, serious bodily harm or a sexual assault, the Sheepish person in the parking lot who sees my gun when the wind blows my shirt back merely must prove that they were "AFRAID" of the weapon. No touching, no brandishing, no threatening move. Merely that they were Fearful of the firearm. That BITES!

 

[PA_SIGpacker]

Is there any case law involving "Going to the Terror of the Public", either pro or con? I'd like to see actual cases where this law was used to charge someone and the outcome of such.

Needless to say, I believe I'll be CCing while in NC. I'd hate to be the guinea pig...

BTW, ya'll should visit PA sometime. You'd absolutely LOVE our gun laws up here. Very pro-2A.

 

[CarolinaJohn]

Is there any case law involving "Going to the Terror of the Public", either pro or con? I'd like to see actual cases where this law was used to charge someone and the outcome of such.

Needless to say, I believe I'll be CCing while in NC. I'd hate to be the guinea pig...

BTW, ya'll should visit PA sometime. You'd absolutely LOVE our gun laws up here. Very pro-2A.

I have my PA license issued by Denny Nau. Again, if it wasnt for the snow, PA would be on my list of places to live.

I am considering Arizone or Florida. I believe they both have Stand Your Ground laws.

 

[eagles350]

I'll admit NC laws don't make the most sense, but It's a lot better than where I come from ( New Jersey )

 

[JM40.Cal]

Ok I'm gonna make this reply quick and to the point. I might not cover all the questions. First of all, yeah, the laws down here are screwy.

Open carry is generally accepted, and many people (myself included) open carry daily with NO problems. You get people with sour opinions once in a while, but screw 'em. The "going armed to the terror..." crap is just that, crap. If you are holstered properly, you're fine. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

While you can't carry concealed in a financial institution, you can carry openly, which I have also done with no problem. Again someone might have their opinion, and you can choose to politely educate them or let them know who's business it is. That's the end of it. Pretty silly law though, huh? This comes from the fact that the law specifies a concealed handgun, but says nothing about any other weapon.

Carrying on private property with signs posted isn't a crime in and of itself, but that sign is a statement of the owners policy, so being there and not leaving after being asked to can get you charged with tresspassing. Really a sign doesn't have to be posted at all. If someone tells you to leave for whatever reason, you have to leave. Anyway, it has been generally accepted that if you are carrying in a place with a sign posted, you are NOT breaking the law, but merely going against a policy. That's all up to you.

You're not allowed to carry in places where alcohol is sold AND CONSUMED. Some LEOs will try and tell you that you can't go into a grocery store that sells alcohol...they're wrong. This law, unfortunately, keeps you out of almost every resturant except fast food places. Heck, you can't even go into pizza hut because they serve beer and wine.

The admission crap was mainly for the purpose of keeping weapons out of night clubs and the like. Like it was stated earlier, that should be up to the property owner.

One last thing you need to look out for is city ordinances. They have a small area that they can restrict that's mentioned in the State's pre-emption, which has to do with publically owned buildings and parks. Local laws generally aren't a problem, though.

 

[PA_SIGpacker]

I have my PA license issued by Denny Nau. Again, if it wasnt for the snow, PA would be on my list of places to live.

Aw, c'mon. South central PA doesn't get all that much snow. After you hit State College or north of that, then you're in snow country!

I'll admit NC laws don't make the most sense, but It's a lot better than where I come from ( New Jersey )

Well anywhere is an improvement from NJ!!! Good move. I drive in NJ almost daily and HATE the fact that I have ZERO 2A rights.

 

[PA_SIGpacker]

Ok I'm gonna make this reply quick and to the point....

JM40 - thanks for the reply and good insight. What part of the state do you have experience OCing? Do you know if any counties are more or less pro-2A? There is a possibility I could move to NC one day and I'd be very interested in local 2A issues before making any decisions.

 

[CarolinaJohn]

JM40 - thanks for the reply and good insight. What part of the state do you have experience OCing? Do you know if any counties are more or less pro-2A? There is a possibility I could move to NC one day and I'd be very interested in local 2A issues before making any decisions.

I am not sure what part of the State JM40 is in, but I guarantee that if I go into a bank open carrying in my county, I will have problems. Now I may not be charged, but having some over zealous LEO putting the muzzle of his duty gun in my ear is not what I call a "good day."

And while the opinion may be that "they are wrong if they tell you the Going Armed to the Terror of the Public is not crap," I do not desire some LEOs interpretation of the law causing me to lose one of my firearms for any reason.

While I agree that if you are carrying properly, it should not be an issue, there are times when it could happen. My carry weapons average over 1K a piece and I do not really want to part with them ever.

So rather than say it will be interpreted this way or that way, action should be taken to modify the laws and remove the restrictions that are left to interpretation by LEOs and what they will charge you with.

It is also crap to hide behind the no firearms in places that charge admission being to prevent carrying into a night club. They serve alcoohol and THAT is already restricted. A movie theater is totally different, yet this blanket law down here prevent Law Abiding Citizens from defending themselves in numerous places that DO NOT serve alcohol.

Open carry may be valid and widely accepted in the more rural areas, but I guarantee it isn't gonna fly in the populated areas, especially where I live.

I should be able to carry my firearm into any place that an LEO is permitted to carry. I was charged with the responsibility of obtaining a permit, subjected to a background check and I know I shoot more accurately than about 80-90% of those we pay to defend the public.

So bottom line...on may say that a law is crap and they will not push the issue....but who wants to be that test case to the tune of much money being spent on a lawyer and the loss of a valuable handgun?

The action committees should be foucussed on removing any and all restrictions that prevent the law abiding citizen from having the ability to defend themselves no matter where they are.

 

[dubccat51]

Do you know if any counties are more or less pro-2A? There is a possibility I could move to NC one day and I'd be very interested in local 2A issues before making any decisions.

There is a N.C. Supreme Court decision State vs. Fennell that sayes localities may only regulate the size of the firearm that is openly carried because some idiot got caught with a sawed-off shotgun and tried to say it was his constitutional right to carry it. The Supreme Court disagreed with him but they did affirm the right to keep and bear military size firearms. Therefore, the Peoples Republic of Chapel Hill has a regulation that an openly carried handgun must be over 6" in length because that is a military size firearm. As far as I know that is the only exception in North Carolina. Another NC Supreme Court decision, State vs. Kerner that affirms the right of the individual citizen to openly carry firearms. I too have openly carried and have never had any trouble and there are many people over at opencarry.org that carry on a daily basis in urban areas that have never had any trouble. I agree that we do have some stupid limitations on places firearms may be carried but if you know and follow the law you will not have any trouble in North Carolina and you will not be charged with "going armed to the terror of the public."