National Association of Gun Rights - SCAM!


Phillip Gain

New member
I did a bit of digging on these guys. (There are literally like 2 guys running the show.) And I found that others had dug yet more deeply. I say SCAM and BS. Lotta talk, a few lies, and no action. Here are some links to support my assertions:

National Association for Gun Rights

Link Removed

(It's worth noting on the link above, that there is ONE person who comes to the NAGR's defense...and that person has ONE post on that forum. This seems to be a pattern. It's probably Dudley Brown himself.)

Scam being run by the National Association for Gun Rights - AR15.COM

Link Removed

Now if I'm right...there should be a newbie coming along any moment to vehemently defend the NAGR and vouch for its legitimacy.
 

Raider-3

New member
Is that supposed to be a challenge to not respond. Nagr was a key element in instituting constitutional carry in wyoming. They are hoping to get it into colorado in the next couple years
They don't endorse politicians like harry reid. The nra endorsed harry reid though. Harry reid was a key player in trying to pass through the veterans disarmament bill s of 2007 and is was a huge supporter of obama's last two supreme court justices who are out spoken about gun control.
The nra wants your money just like any other organization out there. Your entitled to your opinion, but its not ascam
 

Raider-3

New member
They also filed a law suit against colorado state university when they changed campus rules from allowing concealed carry on campus to banning firearms on campus. They won and as a result of that law suit now has concealed carry back at csu and every community college in colorado. This past fall they got legislation though here in colorado requiring every sheriff to delete all their ccw permits from the law enforcement data base. So when you get pulled over and the trooper runs your drivers license, your permit will not come up.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Is that supposed to be a challenge to not respond. Nagr was a key element in instituting constitutional carry in wyoming.

Not according to this member of Wyoming Gun Owners:

Brock, I'm a MEMBER of WyGO, as well as the University of Wyoming's Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, so trust me, I know what's going on in the state I've lived in for my entire life. Brown played a role. Yes, he threw his hat in the ring and yes, he stood behind Matt Mead (who I've also met and hung out with, several times, in our small state where politicians let you walk into their office essentially whenever you feel like it). It was a bit role. The larger role was played at the community level and political level. Do you know about the town halls had on the issue? The write-ups in local papers such as in Wheatland, Rock Springs, and Casper? Because I do.

Do you honestly think every person standing behind a governor or president signing a bill had a monumental impact on that bill? Usually it's everyone who can squeeze into a room, because that kind of stuff makes for serious political imagery!

Would it be incorrect to say that NAGR played no role in Wyoming Constitutional Carry? Yeah, it would, and I apologize if my message gave any reader that impression. However, it would be equally incorrect to say that NAGR played a primary or even a significant role.

Wanna know how Con-Carry passed? Wyoming is a pretty weird state in that when an issue comes up, our senators and representatives actually listen to what the people want. 49-9. Do you honestly think that Dudley Brown with his money-begging emails and hyperbolic bashing of all gun-rights organizations other than his could have masterfully orchestrated such a whopping majority? If he could, he wouldn't need to send constant streams of e-mails full of exaggerated claims, begging for money like a pauper.

The NAGR is a bit player in the gun rights movement, and the way they conduct their business leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. I will stick with the NRA. They aren't perfect, but I've never heard of a Washington, D.C. politician giving a flying fig about any other gun rights organization. When the NRA membership gets ticked off, Washington pays attention, and that's something worth all the negative things you or Mr. Brown can say about them.

Now, thank you kindly for registering for a mature and extremely informative community and deciding in 3 posts that we're a bunch of ignorant blowhards. That saves us the hassle of having you linger around here and taking time to actually form connections and have intelligent discussions, which I've had by the dozens here with some of the finest folks in the shooting community (kraigwy and Ken from Wild West Guns spring to mind, you won't find better folks on any online community, anywhere).

It doesn't appear you'll change any minds today, especially not mine, a lifelong Wyoming native, about the state of Wyoming politics. There are few times I'll claim expertise. I'm a young, novice shooter. Here, I'm going to go ahead and claim I know a bit more about it than you, Brock, unless I'm mistaken and you, too, have been here your entire life as well.

Source: National Association for Gun Rights - Page 2 - TheFiringLine Forums (Post #27)
(Note again - the guy vigorously defending NAGR has a total of 9 posts.)
 

raider3

New member
I do support NAGR, they have made some great changes here in Colorado, which I also mentioned. I still say its not a scam. And please note, since apparantly its a credential on this site now, that I have a more than 9 posts
 

Phillip Gain

New member
They don't endorse politicians like harry reid.

How would I know who they do and don't endorse? They claim in their emails to me that as a PAC, they cannot announce publicly who they do and don't endorse. They claim that they can only legally tell that to paid members. Dudley Brown concludes the email (as every email) by soliciting a donation.

I call BS. If saying whom you support is illegal...it would seem to me that such a law would CLEARLY be in violation of the First Amendment to the US Constitution. I'd like to see the federal statute or regulation or IRS code cited that allegedly makes such a statement from a PAC illegal.

Incidentally, almost every political ad on TV is paid for by a PAC. Seems that those PACs are pretty clear about whom they do and don't endorse. And I don't have to pay them a dime to hear their opinions.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Link RemovedLink Removed
I do support NAGR, they have made some great changes here in Colorado, which I also mentioned. I still say its not a scam. And please note, since apparantly its a credential on this site now, that I have a more than 9 posts

You screwed up.

You're using multiple IDs. You have 186 posts on one of them. And 3 posts on the other.

Looks pretty scammy to me. Got something to hide?

(Screen shots attached...see above)

By the way - what are these changes to which you refer? Can you cite any independent sources that are not associated with NAGR, Dudley Brown, or Rand Paul?
 

Raider-3

New member
This isn't the first organization to ask for money. All these organizations ask for money. And your right, you don't have to pay a dime to hear them. So why do you care?
 

Raider-3

New member
Where do I have multiple IDs? I don't even know what your taking about. I use follow this on my computer and droid all under the same name. It sends like you have more of a axe to grind than anything else
 

walt629

New member
Link RemovedLink Removed

You screwed up.

You're using multiple IDs. You have 186 posts on one of them. And 3 posts on the other.

Looks pretty scammy to me. Got something to hide?

(Screen shots attached...see above)

By the way - what are these changes to which you refer? Can you cite any independent sources that are not associated with NAGR, Dudley Brown, or Rand Paul?

Good catch Phil. I read it twice and blew right over the hyphen in the ID name.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Good catch Phil. I read it twice and blew right over the hyphen in the ID name.

Something isn't right here.

Yes, there are two IDs showing. raider-3 (with a hyphen, 188 posts) and raider3 (without a hyphen, 3 posts).

When you click on either name to go to the profile, the link takes you to the raider3 (without a hyphen) profile. Only 3 posts showing. No sign of the other 185.

Seems to me that this person (DUDLEY, IS THAT YOU?) is using some sort of software that alters the header of his posts, to make it look like he has more posts than he really does. (Or something like that. I'm not a computer genius, but I know there are third party forum browsing clients that can do that sort of thing.)
 

Raider-3

New member
I think its because I'm using my cell phone and computer during this thread. And I know nothing about computers. Hey but thanks for questioning my integrety
 

Raider-3

New member
I see what your talking about now. It says raider-3 is from my cell phone, and raider3 from my computer. I'm typing this from my phone.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Link RemovedLink Removed
By the way - what are these changes to which you refer? Can you cite any independent sources that are not associated with NAGR, Dudley Brown, or Rand Paul?

So - whoever you are - do you have an answer to my question? What are these amazing changes in Colorado to which you refer? How is NAGR playing a part? And please cite third-party sources that are NOT associated with NAGR, Dudley Brown, or Rand Paul...
 

FN1910

New member
I don't know if NAGR is a scam or not but they sure have left a bad impression on me with their act about H.R.822 as well as some other terrible happenings according to them. I don't plan on sending them any money or paying much attention to anything they post which may be bad. Sometime along they way there may actually be a wolf when they call but so far all I have seen is BS and send money.
 

Brock Manson

New member
Well, despite the fact that I'm sure to be shouted down for this being my "first post" (as if that somehow, magically, refutes what I'm about to write), I will state some of the same things here I have in other forums.

1. Probably most important -- and Phillip Gain, I'm looking at you -- did any of you think of actually calling the organization? Phillip, your original post automatically discredits you because it proves you didn't do any "digging" at all. I have a news flash for you guys -- looking up stuff on other chat forums does not constitute "research." You make the claim that "there are literally like 2 guys running the show." 13-year old girl grammar aside, what are you basing this on? Because you saw it on another chat forum? You are demanding people provide independent sources for their info, yet you have not done so. Why should they?

2. I will state what I did on the last forum (one of which was quoted here): take five minutes and call the head of Wyoming Gun Owners. Not some member that posts on forums like this one, not some kid who volunteered for them one time at a show; no, the actual head of the organization. His name is Anthony. Look it up, give him a call and ask him what part NAGR played in Constitutional Carry up there in his state.

3. Call some people at the top of national organizations like Campaign for Liberty and National Right to Work Committee, and state organizations like Iowa Gun Owners, Georgia Gun Owners, South Dakota Gun Owners, New Hampshire Firearms Coalition (who is currently fighting for Constitutional Carry there, with the help of NAGR), and ask them about NAGR. Then tell us all how they could do that with only "literally like 2 guys."

4. That Raider3 guy mentioned that NAGR fought (and won) the battle for firearm carry on CSU (Colorado State University), and instead of acknowledging that fact, people here decided to go after his computer ID or the fact that there was/was not a hyphen in his username. Holy cow, alert the presses! This guy must be lying, he used multiple IDs!!! Did you ever stop to check whether or not what he said was legitimate? Did you take a few minutes to Google that court case? Nope.

I'd be willing to bet $100 that not a single person on here has taken the time to call them on the phone and say "hey, what's the deal?"

No, I'm not Dudley Brown. When he posts, he uses his real name. It's not hard to Google that, either. And no, I'm not going to spend hours on here defending NAGR. What's the point? This thread started off with a guy claiming to have done some "digging" who obviously Googled "NAGR" and "scam" and came up with some forum posts. Guess what? I can Google "aliens" and "my basement" and come up with all kinds of cool stuff that indicates extra-terrestrial invasion in my house, but is it credible? Sure, I will write what I know, but all you are going to do is question me because I've never made any posts here before, instead of thinking about what I actually wrote.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
Well, despite the fact that I'm sure to be shouted down for this being my "first post" (as if that somehow, magically, refutes what I'm about to write), I will state some of the same things here I have in other forums.

1. Probably most important -- and Phillip Gain, I'm looking at you -- did any of you think of actually calling the organization? Phillip, your original post automatically discredits you because it proves you didn't do any "digging" at all. I have a news flash for you guys -- looking up stuff on other chat forums does not constitute "research." You make the claim that "there are literally like 2 guys running the show." 13-year old girl grammar aside, what are you basing this on? Because you saw it on another chat forum? You are demanding people provide independent sources for their info, yet you have not done so. Why should they?

2. I will state what I did on the last forum (one of which was quoted here): take five minutes and call the head of Wyoming Gun Owners. Not some member that posts on forums like this one, not some kid who volunteered for them one time at a show; no, the actual head of the organization. His name is Anthony. Look it up, give him a call and ask him what part NAGR played in Constitutional Carry up there in his state.

3. Call some people at the top of national organizations like Campaign for Liberty and National Right to Work Committee, and state organizations like Iowa Gun Owners, Georgia Gun Owners, South Dakota Gun Owners, New Hampshire Firearms Coalition (who is currently fighting for Constitutional Carry there, with the help of NAGR), and ask them about NAGR. Then tell us all how they could do that with only "literally like 2 guys."

4. That Raider3 guy mentioned that NAGR fought (and won) the battle for firearm carry on CSU (Colorado State University), and instead of acknowledging that fact, people here decided to go after his computer ID or the fact that there was/was not a hyphen in his username. Holy cow, alert the presses! This guy must be lying, he used multiple IDs!!! Did you ever stop to check whether or not what he said was legitimate? Did you take a few minutes to Google that court case? Nope.

I'd be willing to bet $100 that not a single person on here has taken the time to call them on the phone and say "hey, what's the deal?"

No, I'm not Dudley Brown. When he posts, he uses his real name. It's not hard to Google that, either. And no, I'm not going to spend hours on here defending NAGR. What's the point? This thread started off with a guy claiming to have done some "digging" who obviously Googled "NAGR" and "scam" and came up with some forum posts. Guess what? I can Google "aliens" and "my basement" and come up with all kinds of cool stuff that indicates extra-terrestrial invasion in my house, but is it credible? Sure, I will write what I know, but all you are going to do is question me because I've never made any posts here before, instead of thinking about what I actually wrote.

Just as I predicted.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
And hey - maybe I will make some phone calls. Nothing like firsthand research. But I did notice that when I went to the Wyoming Gun Owners website, and did a site search for "Dudley Brown," the only mention in the entire website was in the caption of the photo on Link Removed

I also did a site search for "NAGR" and found it only in that same caption for that same photo.

When I did a site search for (all terms) "national association of gun rights" - I got no results.

If NAGR had such a key role, then WyGO must be the biggest bunch of ingrates in the US, not giving them any press. Where is the "Wyoming Gun Owners would like to thank NAGR and Dudley Brown for all their work in getting this key legislation passed?" :unsure:
 

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