Myths of cover with your squad car

[Ropadope]

Attention Law Enforcement Officers, DEA Agents, FBI etc.

MSG Paul Howe, former Special Forces and 1st/SFOD-D (Delta) has alway's brought his combat experience to his shooting schools for both Military and Law Enforcement as well as for selected civillians. He alway's pushes the envelope in his training surpassing that of most other marksmanship type related and CCDW self defense related schools hosted by wannabee shooters, although not in all cases.

Very informative read concerning use of cover with your squad car. Is it really cover or just fabricated aluminum panel for concealment ?? :biggrin:

Myths of cover with your squad car.


HERE: Link Removed



I'm betting no one, and I mean no one, has even addressed this sort of issue within the Law Enforcement community, especially the 20-30 year behind the curve state wide Police Academies. Enjoy and I hope you learn something to pass on to others in harms way.

Signed
Ropadope

 

[cmhbob]

Here's another good short writeup about cars as cover. The author is a former cop, and has written a police procedural book for writers.

Link Removed

 

[GWW885]

Ropadope - I agree with you, and the article by Mr. Howe.

I teach a class titled Gun Fighting Around Vehicles, that is geared toward the civilian CCH holder. I teach my students that the only places on a vehicle that could be even remotely considered cover are the engine compartment, and the tires. Since I am a law enforcement officer, I really thought this class would be of interest to the local agencies that I work with. I was wrong. As you commented above, the whole issue of using the car as cover is a subject that is often overlooked, and when it is addressed, it's taught that the door is cover, or the trunk area. A favorite tactic that is still being taught to LEO's is the good ole using the hood or roof as a support for your weapon. This is especially irritating.

This attitude will not change until someone gets hurt I'm afraid.

 

[jcarmody]

Here's a pertinent article on an interesting site - The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth

 

[Firefighterchen]

Being the devils advocate... If someone has a rifle you are most likely all ready over powered. The best choice is to run at that point to get your rifle. I come across other articles saying the military is trying to find a better round because the .223 is proving to be less than desired effectiveness through car doors...a handgun caliber is ever weaker.

I would say a car is great cover given the proper techniques.

 

[Purple]

When I went through the police academy in the early 80's officer survival techniques included using what was available as cover and making yourself the smallest target you can. Whether that was a car door, postal drop box, fire hydrant, telephone pole, etc. it wasn't drilled into our heads to be the end all to return fire from, it was intended to give you a fighting chance at surviving a surprised armed encounter and hopefully being able to neutralize the threat from that cover. Using cover that is immediately available is a better idea than trying to run to better cover in a hail of bullets.

 

[GWW885]

Cars suck as cover, however...

Purple, I'll give you that in certain situations, using what little you have (car door, etc) is better than nothing.

I think the point of this thread, is just to bring some attention to the fact that most people (especially cops) think that a car door, or most of the car is adequate cover. If most cops would spend a little money on an old door from the junk yard, or just watch Personal Defense TV, I think they would have a change of heart.

As for the point Firefighter brought up, I agree. I hope the military goes to something a bit heavier, but I also hope they stay with the AR platform. I train Air Force personnel, and I can tell you that it's hard enough to get them to understand the AR system, let alone trying to train them on something more difficult.

 

[TnHogCop]

I'm a firearms instructor with a law enforcement agency in Tennessee. Last year, as part of our training we began teaching the use of squad cars as cover and as weapons. Although, the car is perfect cover there are ways you can increase your chance of survival if you use it properly. Some of the things I saw in MSG Howe's article we taught in the class. We are planning on expanding on that training this year. We are hoping officer's will use lessons and practical excersizes taught in this class to their advantage in the streets.

 

[santa]

I had a unique oppertunity a few years ago to experiment on a junked car out in the country, with the owners permission. The car was a older(1970s) full size (Ford if I remember right)car. The rounds used were; 22 long rifle Stingers, 38 special hollow points and FMJ, 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 3006, 30-30, 303 Brittish, 270, and a couple of others I cant remember. How effective the cover is depends largely on the kind of round(and caliber) being shot and where on the car. The safest place was putting the engine between you and the shooter. Car doors are almost worthless and trunk lids even more so. If you have both doors shut AND have the car between you and the shooter your chances are better again depending on whats being fired. Even a 22 can penetrate a car door(I DID IT WITH A RIFLE). Now IF the shooter cant see where you are hiding behind(beside) the car, that buys you time to think, mabye. Of course different cars are made differently. And yes I had a blast, no pun intended. The owner hated that car and filled it with holes also.

 

[Nightmare45]

Any cover is better than no cover, but as stated unless you have the engine block between you and the incoming you can drive the car home without AC.

 

[rock rat]

Im not a cop,but I have always wondered...what would prohibit lining the inside of police car doors with a bullet resistant material? I'm not suggesting a full-on armoring,but, I would think an up-armored door might come in real handy during an interpersonel ballistic exchange. To my way of thinking,it's the first thing available as one would get out of the vehicle. Just thinking out loud here..

 

[cmhbob]

Im not a cop,but I have always wondered...what would prohibit lining the inside of police car doors with a bullet resistant material?

Ford did this for the last couple of years of the Crown Vic. I'm almost certain the Link Removed will do it, and the Charger Police Package will add it soon.