MUST be concealed

[Boomer]

Well, in a case like that where you are carrying "ghetto" in your pocket you'd probably attract attention. Cop would probably be curious if you were concealing illegally. Lot of hoods cram a gun in their waistband or pocket and don't realize there's a part visible. In a situation where it is in a proper holster, it wouldn't be suspicious.

A proper holster like this?

Link Removed

My pocket holster is made by DeSantis & is the one pictured above. Its made with the leather rough side out to grab the inside of the pocket to aide the draw.

I would never just let my pistol rattle around in my pocket.

 

[6shootercarry]

A proper holster like this?

Link Removed

My pocket holster is made by DeSantis & is the one pictured above. Its made with the leather rough side out to grab the inside of the pocket to aide the draw.

I would never just let my pistol rattle around in my pocket.

Amen... Handguns left loose in ones pants or pants pocket with no cover to prevent an unwanted trigger pull are accidents waiting to happen. A DAO revolver is far less likely to be an issue, but if the revolver was to turn over and end up barrel up in the pocket and it was needed quickly by means of a fast draw, A frightened hand could most certainly find and activate the trigger before the weapon was drawn.

My 2 pennies..

Peace...

 

[SC Tiger]

In SC the law is that the gun must stay concealed during normal activity. The problem is that "normal activity" leaves itself open to interpretation.

Take grocery shopping for example. While walking the aisles the gun must obviously be concealed. However, one could consider bending down to get the bulk pack of diapers to not be normal activity. It could also be argued that you should have expected to have to bend down for the bulk pack of diapers so it is normal activity. Best bet is to make sure that the gun is always concealed, but the law does give a little cushion if it becomes exposed accidently. I've had a fan blow my cover shirt up exposing my weapon before but no one saw it. Lesson learned.

Of course in SC if someone sees it (outside of the major cities), most likely they are going to ask what kind it is and how to get your permit (if they don't already have one). You never know though so you can't count on that.

 

[wuzfuz]

re: Must Be Concealed

It depends on your state's laws. Washington is an Open Carry state that also issues Concealed Pistol Licenses. If you are carrying concealed, then it must be concealed at all times. They had a case recently in Pierce County at a Starbuck's. Starbuck's has sided with the Second Amendment people and welcome legally armed citizens at all times. This one gentleman stopped at his local Starbuck's every morning for his latte with his 9mm on his hip. this one morning , there was a Pierce County deputy present who approached the citizen and demanded to see his identification. The citizen got his back up and informed the deputy he did not have to produce ID as he was not breaking any laws. His pistol was seized and he was run in. Ed Troyer, a detective and department spokesman, said that the police had the right TO INVESTIGATE WHEN THERE WAS A POSSIBLE THREAT. (EMPHASIS MINE). Since when did practicing your constitutional rights constitute a threat? The deputy was armed, did HE constitute a threat, No, but neither did the citizen. Since Washington has no Open Carry license, the deputy's actions were heavy-handed. Unless we are violating the law, which the citizen was not, leave us the heck alone. I am sure people would have liked for there to be a few armed citizens in the Forza coffee shop where four Parkland police officers were murdered as they prepared to go on shift. Someone asked Ronald Raegan what he thought of gun control after he was the target of an assassination attempt. He stated he wished it had happened in Arizona, becuase twenty or thirty armed citizens would have taken care of the shooter. (Raegan's in laws lived in the Biltmore in Phoenix at the time.)

 

[NavyLCDR]

It depends on your state's laws. Washington is an Open Carry state that also issues Concealed Pistol Licenses. If you are carrying concealed, then it must be concealed at all times. They had a case recently in Pierce County at a Starbuck's. Starbuck's has sided with the Second Amendment people and welcome legally armed citizens at all times. This one gentleman stopped at his local Starbuck's every morning for his latte with his 9mm on his hip. this one morning , there was a Pierce County deputy present who approached the citizen and demanded to see his identification. The citizen got his back up and informed the deputy he did not have to produce ID as he was not breaking any laws. His pistol was seized and he was run in

wuzfuz,

Your details of the incident are a bit in error, even though your final point about the case is 100% accurate. The man, Tom Brewster, and the situation leading up to the incident were as you described. He had gone to the same Starbucks many times, LAWFULLY carrying his firearm. This particular time, one Sheriff deputy standing in line - NOT in response to any 911 call - asked Tom Brewster to show him identification because he was openly carrying a firearm - an act for which NO license or permit is required to do in Washington.

Tom refused to show ID and asked if the deputy was detaining him. The deputy replied no, he was not being detained, so Tom stated that this conversation was over. The deputy then left the store and called THREE more deputies. Tom, in the meantime, started a voice recorder that he carries with him. The four deputies returned and asked Tom to leave the store with them. Tom refused. What happened next was 6 or 8 (I don't remember which) full minutes of 4 deputies harassing Tom to show them identification even though no offense was being committed. Also note that during this entire incident, none of the deputies felt that Tom was enough of a threat to anyone to disarm him. He remained in possession of his firearm at all times.

Finally, seeing no other alternative to end the harassment, Tom showed the deputies his identification and the deputies left. Tom was never arrested nor charged with anything. In Washington there is no legal requirement to produce an identification document to law enforcement, and there is no statute that permits law enforcement to ask a person for identification without there being a cause to issue a citation to that person. The US Supreme Court has ruled that in the absence of state law, such as in Washington, that police may only require verbal identification of a subject IF they have reasonable and articulable suspicion that person has committed, is committing or about to commit a crime. The sheriff's deputies in this incident clearly and blatantly violated Tom's 4th Amendment rights.

An mp3 file of the voice recorder is posted in this thread:
Harrassed by 4 sheriffs in STARBUCKS!!

There will probably be a lawsuit filed against the Peirce County Sheriff for violating the 4th Amendment, ESPECIALLY in light of the public statement made by Ed Troyer on television that it was perfectly acceptable for law enforcement to stop whomever they desired in order to "investigate" irregardless of if that person was breaking no laws and posing no threat.

 

[Islander]

If state law only allows for concealed carry, any form of printing or exposing the firearm would likely be illegal. Concealed means concealed.

Excellent logic, but not correct for all states. In SC, open carry is illegal with few exceptions. However, there is no law against printing when carrying concealed.

 

[m1gunr]

If you are carrying concealed, then it must be concealed at all times.

Please cite the RCW where this is required. I'll save you the time, there isn't one.

 

[tismejb3d]

Ya (not to sound rude) but its called a CCW because It is a Concealed carry weapon. there are states that allow open carry, so in these states it wouldnt be much of a problem. But if a state has CCW and not open carry the police could jam you up.
I would look in to it.:no:

 

[TnRebel]

Permissive Open Carry States which means the states have passed full preemption regarding all firearm laws. These states permit open carry to all law-abiding citizens without a criminal record without any special permit or firearms license. The open carry is legal for a citizen on foot or in a motor vehicle. The states that allow this are Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky.

Licensed Open Carry States allows open carry to all law-abiding citizens once they apply and are approved for a permit or firearms license. They can also carry on foot or in their motor vehicle. The states that require a permit or license for open carry are Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Maryland, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts.

Anomalous Open Carry States open carry in these states are generally lawful, but the state itself may have other stiff restrictions to deter citizens from carry a firearm open. The laws in these states are very grey and could cause you a lot of problems if you go toting a gun around openly. The states that have a lot of grey area on open carry are Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maine, Delaware and New Hampshire. You shouldn't carry open firearms in these states just to avoid a charge of bringing terror to the people which only requires a citizen to see you carry open firearms and saying they are in fear. You will get charged.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Anomalous Open Carry States open carry in these states are generally lawful, but the state itself may have other stiff restrictions to deter citizens from carry a firearm open. The laws in these states are very grey and could cause you a lot of problems if you go toting a gun around openly. The states that have a lot of grey area on open carry are Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maine, Delaware and New Hampshire. You shouldn't carry open firearms in these states just to avoid a charge of bringing terror to the people which only requires a citizen to see you carry open firearms and saying they are in fear. You will get charged.

Your definition of anomalous open carry states is incorrect. For instance, Washington has very strong complete state preemption of firearms laws, there is no "gray area" and is very open carry friendly. The "anomaly" in Washington state is that it is illegal to possess a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a concealed pistol license license. Colorado also has complete state preemption with the exception of Denver. Thus, Colorado is open carry friendly, the only "anomaly" being Denver.

 

[davisway]

I read somewhere, I forget where, that if concealed carry is all that is allowed, then it has to be that way all the time, even printing is not allowed. BUT I also read that there is the odd time where the wind may blow your shirt or jacket up, exposing the firearm. I believe that in that instance you did not break the law and it is called... I can't remember Doh! Man what a dummy. Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Islander]

I read somewhere, I forget where, that if concealed carry is all that is allowed, then it has to be that way all the time, even printing is not allowed. BUT I also read that there is the odd time where the wind may blow your shirt or jacket up, exposing the firearm. I believe that in that instance you did not break the law and it is called... I can't remember Doh! Man what a dummy. Anyone? Anyone?

1. Absolutely no laws against printing in SC

2. "Premature Exposure"? :biggrin:

BTW, I believe you COULD be cited for inadvertent/accidental exposure in most states that don't allow open carry. However, after lots of reading it looks like most LEOs will let it go, but not always. So, in SC it is better to tuck your shirt in tight and not worry about printing than to let it hang loose and possibly expose the weapon.

Your state may vary. Always, check laws of your own state.

 

[CapGun]

Lol ... actually my favorite 2 choices right now would be a Beretta PX4 in 40SW and a Bersa Thunder 380 so neither one was made where Bier and Bretzeln were invented ... ;-):biggrin:

yOU HAVE TO TRY THE hk usp COMPACT .40!leasantry:

 

[ArmyRanger]

Concealed means concealed. Most state ccw laws forbid even printing your weapon. I don't tell anybody that I am carrying unless they have a need to know and check myself before leaving the house to make sure that I don't print. It's tactically sound also that the badguy doesn't know that you are carrying.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Concealed means concealed. Most state ccw laws forbid even printing your weapon. I don't tell anybody that I am carrying unless they have a need to know and check myself before leaving the house to make sure that I don't print. It's tactically sound also that the badguy doesn't know that you are carrying.

Ummmm.... no.

In only 8 states is open carry completely illegal. In 42 states, open carry in some form is legal, which definitely includes printing. In addition, statistics have shown that felons prefer targets which are not known to be armed over those that they know are armed. Thus, your "element of surprise" does nothing to deter crime, which is what I would prefer to do.

 

[Edsworld]

Don't be so sure of that. I happen to know that in at least one shall-issue state (I believe it's New Mexico) where open carry is also legal, that the law does clearly make this distinction; if you're carrying concealed, there can be no printing or anything that detects the presence of a handgun. If it's openly carried, it must be in full view.

I live in New Mexico, and that is the way I understand it also. But they do allow for accidental exposure.( wind, etc.)

 

[NavyLCDR]

I live in New Mexico, and that is the way I understand it also. But they do allow for accidental exposure.( wind, etc.)

Don't be so sure of that. I happen to know that in at least one shall-issue state (I believe it's New Mexico) where open carry is also legal, that the law does clearly make this distinction; if you're carrying concealed, there can be no printing or anything that detects the presence of a handgun. If it's openly carried, it must be in full view.

Please post a statute that says that a permit holder in New Mexico must carry a handgun completely concealed or completely in full view. You won't find one. If you have a concealed weapons permit, in a state that also allows open carry such as New Mexico, you can carry that firearm however you want to except in your hand pointing it at someone. You can carry your firearm completely concealed, or completely open, or anywhere in between that you want to. I challenge you to post a statute that says a permit holder can't.

 

[PaxMentis]

Your definition of anomalous open carry states is incorrect. For instance, Washington has very strong complete state preemption of firearms laws, there is no "gray area" and is very open carry friendly. The "anomaly" in Washington state is that it is illegal to possess a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a concealed pistol license license. Colorado also has complete state preemption with the exception of Denver. Thus, Colorado is open carry friendly, the only "anomaly" being Denver.

And Oregon has complete pre-emption except that communities can restrict OC for anyone not having a CHL...Portland and a few other cities in the NW corner "People's State" have that restriction. For a CHL holder there are no restrictions on OC.

Concealed means concealed. Most state ccw laws forbid even printing your weapon. I don't tell anybody that I am carrying unless they have a need to know and check myself before leaving the house to make sure that I don't print. It's tactically sound also that the badguy doesn't know that you are carrying.

Very wrong...even "most" states that forbid OC do not have laws against inadvertant printing..a very few do, so check your state laws, but to say that "most do" (and especially "most state ccw laws") is just plain misinformation.

 

[guadman]

Concealed Carry



Well I can tell you that here, in Oregon, I believe that's exactly what it means.

CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) permit is for specifically that: CONCEALED Carry.

It keeps the weapon out of site of possibly nervous citizens and bystanders and kids, etc.

Seem the authorities look at these as 2 seperate issues, with a lot of justification, IMHO.

 

[PaxMentis]

Well I can tell you that here, in Oregon, I believe that's exactly what it means.

CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) permit is for specifically that: CONCEALED Carry.

It keeps the weapon out of site of possibly nervous citizens and bystanders and kids, etc.

Seem the authorities look at these as 2 seperate issues, with a lot of justification, IMHO.

Maybe where you live, but not down here. And legally, not anywhere in the state.

Actually, up in Portland and the cities around it with OC restrictions, the only way one can carry OC is with a CC permit...since cities cannot restrict carry by a CC license holder...CC or OC.

I carry IWB, but on an occassional hot summer day in the park or at the golf course I am likely to shed the cover garment and sometimes even my t-shirt...and remain perfectly legal.

I am curious... in what part of Oregon do you live and what authorities have told you that a concealed weapon must be fully concealed at all times?