Michigan Open Carry Meeting Broken-up

[lukem]

Looks like a steakhouse owner allows Michigan Open Carry to have a meeting there until someone showed up with an AR15. Then they called the police. No one was arrested and it says they are working with Open Carry so this doesn't happen again.

Read the story here:
Link Removed

 

[PX4storm]

In some ways this is sad, it gets difficult when you put both the Gun Owners rights and store owners rights on the table. People need to quit freaking out. People with the GUT's to pull off an open carry are not the type to do something stupid. At this point I do not have the courage to open carry. Imagine if every law-abiding person walked around with pistols in plane view. The bad-gals/guys wouldn't think of acting up. I believe my 2nd amendment Right is my CWP. Like Ted says in this video .......

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/11181-ted.html

 

[Cobra]

There's always someone (the AR15 owner) that wants to make a statement. He had no business there with the AR15 - it was supposed to be a meeting about handgun open carry - not to open carry bazookas. Another irresponsible gun owner who has an ego problem. Did the handgun owners ask him to leave too?

 

[Confess]

WoW. Just. WoW. There is always someone that just has to push the envelope. WTG! Until the envelope starts pushing back. I suppose wandering into a restaurant with an AR15 would naturally have everyone happy to see you? :hang3:

 

[Glock Fan]

If the person showing up with the AR 15 had the rifle slung across their back or over their shoulder in a "non threatening" manner, then there should have been no issue, and the other handgun owners as well as the assistant manager of the restaurant should simply have asked them to leave. Now if the person showed up with the rifle at "port arms" or in some aggressive and threatening manner, then I could understand why the police were called.

Some might say that this was "over the top". Others may argue that incidents like this are actually helpful to our cause. Being that no arrests were made, I would say that all parties involved were in compliance with the law. I fully support citizens exercising their 2A rights. I might not choose to OC a AR 15, but I surely won't discourage anyone else who would lawfully choose to do so. Thinking back to the good 'ole days, I can remember stories that some older buddies of mind would tell me. Back in the 50s', they were growing up in very rural parts of the U.S. They were only 10 years old or so, and would walk around town with their .22 LR rifle slung across their back. Another buddy would tell me of how he would collect empty pop bottles and take them to the local general store so he'd get the deposit money and use the money to purchase a box of cartridges to go plinking. I strongly believe that if all law abiding citizens were allowed to carry their firearms as they choose to do so, then America would be a lot safer place.

I have NEVER seen a criminal commit a violent crime with a firearm while OCing.



gf

 

[PX4storm]

If the person showing up with the AR 15 had the rifle slung across their back or over their shoulder in a "non threatening" manner, then there should have been no issue, and the other handgun owners as well as the assistant manager of the restaurant should simply have asked them to leave. Now if the person showed up with the rifle at "port arms" or in some aggressive and threatening manner, then I could understand why the police were called.

Some might say that this was "over the top". Others may argue that incidents like this are actually helpful to our cause. Being that no arrests were made, I would say that all parties involved were in compliance with the law. I fully support citizens exercising their 2A rights. I might not choose to OC a AR 15, but I surely won't discourage anyone else who would lawfully choose to do so. Thinking back to the good 'ole days, I can remember stories that some older buddies of mind would tell me. Back in the 50s', they were growing up in very rural parts of the U.S. They were only 10 years old or so, and would walk around town with their .22 LR rifle slung across their back. Another buddy would tell me of how he would collect empty pop bottles and take them to the local general store so he'd get the deposit money and use the money to purchase a box of cartridges to go plinking. I strongly believe that if all law abiding citizens were allowed to carry their firearms as they choose to do so, then America would be a lot safer place.

I have NEVER seen a criminal commit a violent crime with a firearm while OCing.



gf

Very good points .......

 

[seeley booth]

my girlfriend knows where ponderosa is she use to live in lansing.. i agree so does she
it's wrong for the police being called they was just having a meeting

 

[Cobra]

I agree with Glock Fan as the 2A gives the "right to keep and bear", however openly carrying the AR15 into the restaurant is parallel to yelling "FIRE" in an theater (now days). If someone has a CCW, why would that person want to open carry. During a protest when the president was in Phoenix, a citizen open carried an AR15 - which is legal here, just to prove a point - that he could. It got a lot of attention, positive and negative, depending on the news outlet you watched.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I believe it was a poor decision for his choice to carry an AR15 into a restaurant.

 

[Cobra]

in a previous post I has stated the AR15 carrier had no business doing so. I was wrong for saying that - if it's legal - it is what it is. I don't want to single out any specific firearm from open carry if it's within the legal parameters of the law.

 

[RugerP345]

The clown who showed up with the assault rifle is one of those who likes OC'ing around town trying to provoke the police. You can see a lot of his videos of when he gets detained on youtube. Search for KIMBERGUY.

 

[Glock Fan]

The clown who showed up with the assault rifle is one of those who likes OC'ing around town trying to provoke the police. You can see a lot of his videos of when he gets detained on youtube. Search for KIMBERGUY.

Why is this man a "clown"? I haven't seen anything on YouTube were he was dressed up with a funny wig, big shoes and a red rubber nose. All kidding aside, I don't understand why you feel the man is a clown. You see it as provoking the police. Others see is as ensuring that the police are doing their jobs properly. I'm glad that there are law abiding citizens out there who have the courage to see to it that our 2A rights aren't eroded any further. I don't necessarily agree with the way some of these folks go about proving their point, but IMHO, as long as they're following the law and making an effort to educate others, I don't have a problem with what they are doing. Rather than bash another firearm owner, why not offer suggestions as to how he would be better able to convey a message in a way that you feel is appropriate? I'm sure that if the man was doing anything illegal he would have had his RKBA revoked by now. With every detention and subsequent release by the police, he's educating the police as to the applicable firearms laws.

You don't have to agree with what other pro 2A folks do. Difference of opinion is what makes our country great and helps us to grow and become better people. I do take issue with people who simply bash others with no basis for their negativity.



gf

 

[jerryinoregon]

There's always someone (the AR15 owner) that wants to make a statement. He had no business there with the AR15 - it was supposed to be a meeting about handgun open carry - not to open carry bazookas. Another irresponsible gun owner who has an ego problem. Did the handgun owners ask him to leave too?

Cobra--- Bazooka???? OMG don't tell me your one of the black rifles are evil crowd. Yes it might have bben over the top but have you ever heard the expression the squeaky wheel get the grease? He was obviously trying to prove a point. AND he has the bravery to back his beliefs up with action. Even if we do not agree with his methods his reasons were the same as most of ours; the 2nd amendment should not be abridged.

 

[Glock Fan]

Cobra--- Bazooka???? OMG don't tell me your one of the black rifles are evil crowd. Yes it might have bben over the top but have you ever heard the expression the squeaky wheel get the grease? He was obviously trying to prove a point. AND he has the bravery to back his beliefs up with action. Even if we do not agree with his methods his reasons were the same as most of ours; the 2nd amendment should not be abridged.

For the record I support the 2A and believe that we as Americans have the RKBA in accordance with federal, state and local laws. I would eventually like to see laws changed where there would be no restrictions on our RKBA.

I do however see a problem with people carrying a "bazooka" or other type of high explosive device in public without proper training. For those familiar with the LAW "Light anti-tank weapon" or the "AT-4", you understand the important to check "back blast area clear". Failure to do so can result in some serious consequences.

As with any firearm, automobile, industrial machine, etc., proper training and safety gear is a must. Failure to adhere to safety rules can have serious consequences which may directly impact other citizens' right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!



gf

 

[RugerP345]

I do take issue with people who simply bash others with no basis for their negativity.



gf

It cuts both ways. I take issues with people who bash people who are exercising their FIRST AMENDMENT right. I'm not doing anything illegal either.

Looks like my "negativity" isn't solo. The clown got the whole group kicked out and has the news media reporting it like someone kicked in the door and shot up the place.
Looks like he's the best ally the Brady crowd has, even if he doesn't have a red nose and big shoes.

Strange how the 2nd amendment is a big deal to you but the 1st isn't. Didn't know we could pick thru the Constitution and only subscribe to the ideas that suit our agenda.

I'm glad you feel this guy has done something on your behalf. Don't count me in. He's done nothing for me but make people who are ignorant about guns say to themselves when they see me open carrying, "Oh geez. Another gun nut like that idiot that took the assault rifle to the restaurant."

 

[Glock Fan]

It cuts both ways. I take issues with people who bash people who are exercising their FIRST AMENDMENT right. I'm not doing anything illegal either.

Looks like my "negativity" isn't solo. The clown got the whole group kicked out and has the news media reporting it like someone kicked in the door and shot up the place.
Looks like he's the best ally the Brady crowd has, even if he doesn't have a red nose and big shoes.

Strange how the 2nd amendment is a big deal to you but the 1st isn't. Didn't know we could pick thru the Constitution and only subscribe to the ideas that suit our agenda.

I'm glad you feel this guy has done something on your behalf. Don't count me in. He's done nothing for me but make people who are ignorant about guns say to themselves when they see me open carrying, "Oh geez. Another gun nut like that idiot that took the assault rifle to the restaurant."

Last time I checked, this was still America. Think and say as you please. I'm not telling you not to say or think anything in particular. I'm simply expressing my opinion as are you. With that said, I'm sure that the individual with the AR 15 didn't get the hole group kicked out. The media might be reporting it that way, but as with any story, there are several versions. Until you hear all accounts, it's difficult to determine exactly what happened. I highly doubt that you or anyone else on this forum has heard all accounts of what happened. We're all aware of how the media "accurately" reports things these days.

Contrary to your belief, the 1A is important to me as well. I often run into many people who have things to say that I don't agree with. Rather than arbitrarily calling them names, I express myself to them in a way that I have an opportunity to educate them as to why my view is contrary to theirs. Name calling rarely results in progress. You may think the individual is the "best ally" of the Brady Bunch. While your logic may be that a lot of people were "turned off" by the incident, there is the possibility that others may have learned a thing or two about the laws regarding firearms in the state of MI. I'd much rather encounter a person who has strong feelings about an issue (one way or another) rather than a person who is apathetic to an issue. An apathetic person is a "wild card". I don't know which way they will go. I have no idea if they are "for" or "against" my position. Knowing that a person is "against" my position gives me the opportunity to present my point of view and facts that support my position. Educating the "anti" person may or may not change their mind, but either way, I'll know what I'm working with. Should they remain "against" my position, I would then know that I would have to find 2 people "for" my position to make a difference.

Weather you believe that the person in question did something to benefit you or not doesn't really matter to me. You're free to think as you wish. After all, we're still in America, which is still considered a "free country" (at least for now). You haven't given me any reason to start to consider changing the way I think. I'll continue to educate folks as I have been. You continue to do as you please. I know my methods have been working, and I'm making a difference, and really don't have the time nor desire to debate endlessly with you.



gf

 

[Bighouse Doc]

Another sociopathic attention whore screws up something good!

-Doc

 

[Big Gay Al]

As I found out, the assistant manager called police to find out if it was legal for the guy with the AR15. As far as I know, he did not request a police presence. But, LPD sent 10 officers anyway. I guess they had nothing better to do at that time. Maybe Tim Hortons was closed for cleaning or something. (Just kidding, I like doughnuts too)

 

[Glock Fan]

As I found out, the assistant manager called police to find out if it was legal for the guy with the AR15. As far as I know, he did not request a police presence. But, LPD sent 10 officers anyway. I guess they had nothing better to do at that time. Maybe Tim Hortons was closed for cleaning or something. (Just kidding, I like doughnuts too)

Thanks for the research Al. So at this point, based on this new information, it appears that the police over reacted to the situation. The media "sensationalized" the incident in order to make it "more news worthy".

As I stated earlier, with any incident, there are many versions. Seems like the assistant manager as well as the 10 officers got some education on OC that day. What they do with that new knowledge is yet to be seen.



gf

 

[Big Gay Al]

Thanks for the research Al. So at this point, based on this new information, it appears that the police over reacted to the situation. The media "sensationalized" the incident in order to make it "more news worthy".

As I stated earlier, with any incident, there are many versions. Seems like the assistant manager as well as the 10 officers got some education on OC that day. What they do with that new knowledge is yet to be seen.

gf

I think there was misunderstanding on both sides. From what I've learned, the manager was NOT happy about the guy with the AR15. But I don't think anyone went and asked the OCers to leave either.

Regardless, I don't think OCing a rifle in an urban environment is a good idea. To my way of thinking, I carry a pistol for defensive purposes. A rifle is more of an offensive weapon. It generally takes longer to get into action, from an apparent slung and "safe" position, compared to a pistol. It's also unnecessarily excessive bulk, compared to a pistol. Heck, I wouldn't even pack a pistol version. Period. Too much chance of it being mistaken for a short rifle, or SMG. And until we get the general populace used to the idea of handguns, why alienate them further with stuff like that?

But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Glock Fan]

I think there was misunderstanding on both sides. From what I've learned, the manager was NOT happy about the guy with the AR15. But I don't think anyone went and asked the OCers to leave either.

Regardless, I don't think OCing a rifle in an urban environment is a good idea. To my way of thinking, I carry a pistol for defensive purposes. A rifle is more of an offensive weapon. It generally takes longer to get into action, from an apparent slung and "safe" position, compared to a pistol. It's also unnecessarily excessive bulk, compared to a pistol. Heck, I wouldn't even pack a pistol version. Period. Too much chance of it being mistaken for a short rifle, or SMG. And until we get the general populace used to the idea of handguns, why alienate them further with stuff like that?

But, that's just my opinion.

You have some valid points regarding the general public and their view of a OC rifle. Keep in mind that in many states, the law requires a citizen to be 21 to own a handgun. A rifle would be the only legal option for citizens between the ages of 18 - 20.

I disagree that a rife is an "offensive" firearm. My primary SD firearm in my home is my Mossberg 500A. Many others have a similar mindset.

One of the biggest problems with having a long gun in an urban environment is Hollywood and the media. There are a lot of media reports of "police respoded to a call of a man with an assault rifle in downtown ______ this afternoon". What they fail to report is that the man wasn't charged with a crime because he did nothing wrong. The media spins a story how they want the public to see it. If there is a follow-up story done, it's usually very low key, and if in print it's buried where it's rarely seen.

As firearms owners we need to come up with a plan so we can work together without bashing one another. If we were all to unite and work towards a common goal, our efforts will be a lot more productive.




gf