MI school threatens to incite panic and hold education hostage....

[ezkl2230]

A man living in Clio, MI, went to pick up his daughter from school. Since he has a CPL, he was openly carrying his firearm when he entered the building, which is perfectly legal in Michigan. He has done this many times without incident. On this articular day, however, someone noticed his firearm and called the sheriff even after learning that he was carrying legally. He was cleared by the authorities, who explained that he was within his rights.

So the school board decided to go nuclear.

There are now signs posted on the schools of the Clio school district that address CPL holders directly:

Link Removed Link Removed

Clio elementary school changes signs after open-carry gun incident | MLive.com

Sweet, huh? The LEGAL FIREARMS CARRIER is to blame that the children will be panicked and lose their educational opportunities for the day.

Right.

OK. First, Michigan is a pre-emption state, which means that state law takes precedence over local ordinances and policies. The school board is in knowing, deliberate violation of both state AND federal law (the CPL exemption of the federal gun free school zones act). It really doesn't matter if the school board doesn't like what the LAW says.

But more to the point, this is an example of coercion, of holding children and their education hostage. The man was carrying in full compliance with the law, and there was nothing to indicate from the reports that the STUDENTS were panicked in any way by that fact. It was the ADULTS who immediately went into hysterics. And because the LAW says that this man has the right to safely carry his firearm, the school is now going to deliberately incite panic in their students and their parents, and hold their education hostage by initiating lockdown procedures. By the way, if this isn't nipped in the bud NOW, I can see this same tactic catching on in anti-gun districts across the country FAST.

So what is more important to these people? The education of their students (which, by the way, involves teaching them about our legal protections, even when we don't necessarily agree with them) or making enforcing an agenda?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way.

 

[S&W645]

Typical overreaction by the anti-gun education system.

 

[Burtboomer]

This is what makes me boil.In this situation we have clearly stated laws but once again someone doesn't agree so we will just change it to what they want with no respect to this country or its laws.And once again our great elected officials that are put there to uphold these laws not only let it happen but apparently welcome it.Oh an how about that school - let's not just sit down man to man and come to a rational solution,NO,NO let's just force it and threaten everyone with school lockdown.I'm so disgusted with these political hacks and sadly they are everywhere.GOD HELP US AND THIS COUNTRY

 

[NavyLCDR]

I find it interesting that you would say this about the school:

So the school board decided to go nuclear.

Followed by this in your post:

The school board is in knowing, deliberate violation of both state AND federal law (the CPL exemption of the federal gun free school zones act). It really doesn't matter if the school board doesn't like what the LAW says.

I feel that you are deliberately misquoting the Federal law. The Federal law only exempts CPL holders from the Federal prohibition of guns in schools zones. The Federal law in no way restricts state and lower governments from enacting their own prohibitions. Yes, the school is in violation of State preemption - but not the Federal law. If you are going to accuse the school board of grandstanding, then I would suggest that you not engage in grandstanding yourself.

For reference the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act is 18 USC 922 (q)(2):
18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

There is nothing in the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act that prohibits state, county or city governments or individual school districts from enacting their own prohibitions of guns in schools, even prohibiting CPL holders.

 

[SR40c]

Yes, these are the IDIOTS that are allegedly educating your children.

 

[Kalamity023]

I'd sit in the office on lock down every day until they ceased this ridiculous policy. So long as what he is doing is legal there is no issue with the police. I'd go to pick my kid up and let them call the police. No doubt the same officer would respond and it would go up to the chief. The chief would hopefully smack some sense into the superintendent of the school system and this would end. Not only would I do it but I'd have all my friends pick up their kids with me. When other parents are upset they'd have only the school system to blame. I guess they don teach common sense and tolerance in that district.

 

[BC1]

I'd sit in the office on lock down every day until they ceased this ridiculous policy. So long as what he is doing is legal there is no issue with the police. I'd go to pick my kid up and let them call the police. No doubt the same officer would respond and it would go up to the chief. The chief would hopefully smack some sense into the superintendent of the school system and this would end. Not only would I do it but I'd have all my friends pick up their kids with me. When other parents are upset they'd have only the school system to blame. I guess they don teach common sense and tolerance in that district.

~
Do you honestly believe the chief of police would tell a school superintendent not to call the police when someone enters with a gun? Ain't gonna happen. They must respond each and every time.
~
Here's a thought... how about leaving the gun in the car when entering the school for five friggin minutes. Forget the law. How about some common sense. Guns in schools scare the crap out of people who don't know guns or the law. It merely invites more accusations of lunacy. Stop feeding the liberals' agenda. To carry into the school on the off-chance that your will be attacked in the next five minutes is a bit paranoid.

 

[Golden Eagle]

~
Do you honestly believe the chief of police would tell a school superintendent not to call the police when someone enters with a gun? Ain't gonna happen. They must respond each and every time.

Yes it happened to the Lansing library here in Michigan. The police got tired of responding and explaining it was legal.

~
Here's a thought... how about leaving the gun in the car when entering the school for five friggin minutes. Forget the law. How about some common sense. Guns in schools scare the crap out of people who don't know guns or the law. It merely invites more accusations of lunacy. Stop feeding the liberals' agenda. To carry into the school on the off-chance that your will be attacked in the next five minutes is a bit paranoid.

It's about defending our rights, not being paranoid... although I guess schools have been known to get attacked.

 

[sdprof]

I'm with the "carry every day when picking up your kid" school. When the schools have been disrupted enough, either the police or the public will demand the school board straighten up.

OK, after the third or fourth deliberate incident, a cop with a stick up his rear might try to charge disturbing the peace or some such. Then the fecal matter should hit the rotating air movement device!

 

[Itstjs]

Im surprised I didnt hear about this, I dont live very far from Clio, and this being recent, I figured it would be on the news at some point. I spoke to several Officers about OC in schools before, and every one of them said it was legal with a CPL. I figure due to this incident, I am going to write the local school board and at least make my voice heard. This is a violation of the mans rights. I encourage you guys not to read the comments from some of the ignorant people on MLIVE, made me upset. Anyhow. thanks for the post.

 

[ezkl2230]

So not only is the school board going to incite panic in students and their parents and hold their education hostage, it is also going to hold the Sheriff's Department hostage as well. Initiating a lockdown procedure generally requires law enforcement to roll all available units, meaning that deputies who would otherwise be available to roll on more important calls will instead be tied up by the school district's theatrics.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here's a thought... how about leaving the gun in the car when entering the school for five friggin minutes. Forget the law. How about some common sense. Guns in schools scare the crap out of people who don't know guns or the law. It merely invites more accusations of lunacy. Stop feeding the liberals' agenda. To carry into the school on the off-chance that your will be attacked in the next five minutes is a bit paranoid.

Here's a thought.... why should he put himself and others at increased risk from a negligent discharge due to handling his gun when it is not required by law to do so? Why should he leave his gun stored in an unoccupied vehicle when it is not required by law to do so? Why is it not enough that he just obey the requirements of the law?

 

[wolf_fire]

I am a high school teacher in PA. We have good firearms laws compared to most states, but they are still not Constitutional in my book. PA laws say that one cannot carry in a school except for legal purposes and as far as I know, no licensed holder has tried to press what "legal purposes" mean.

However, when I saw your OP and it said 'Drug Free Zone' and 'Weapons Free Zone', I just chuckled.

Our school has the "Drug Free Zone" signs too and every time I go by them, I snicker... question, then why do all the counselors have drug testing equipment? If it's the law no one will do or have drugs in school, right? And no one will ever carry a firearm in a school that is "weapons free", right?

Let's examine the word weapon too? Does this school have scissors? How about a stapler? Does this school have textbooks? chairs? desks? fists? elbows? teeth? knees? Are all these people going to be removed for carrying these items as well? Or does the word 'weapon' only mean firearms? How about a pocket knife? Do the lunch ladies have kitchen knives? Are they banned now too?

I LOATHE 'zero' tolerance language.

 

[rev. dave]

Seems to me that getting us to stop engaging in legal behavior IS the liberal agenda. So it's you, Kalamity023, who is playing into their hands with that suggestion. And carrying for that 5 minutes isn't 'paranoid', it's the reason to carry a gun - because you can't plan for when you will need it. Sure, odds are against the need - but would you bet your or your kid's life that you could run to the car and come back with your gun, without your kid being shot or being shot yourself if some whack-job rolled in there with a gun? That's what you just suggested.

 

[rev. dave]

My apologies Kalamity023. It was BC1 that my prior reply was intended for, and I got tricked by seeing your handle in the quote. I'm sorry.

Do we have a moderator who can edit my first post to be a response to BC1?????????

 

[ark steve]

What needs to happen in cases like this where they prevent law abiding "watch dogs" being available to prevent or stop a criminal with a gun from committing a crime, the ones who prevented them should be charged as accessories before the fact along with the criminal. When they are establishing those policies those voting on them should be notified that in the event of such a crime they can and will be charged!

 

[golddigger14s]

The chances of an attack during that 5 mins may be slim. But by just giving into them, and rolling over like a dog is another layer of our rights being stripped away. As the old saying goes, "it's a matter of principal". As some one stated MI is under preemption, so if like here in WA city's, county's, and municipalities can't make up rules as they go. Heck the guy might even be able to get some money out of it if he sues.

 

[S&W645]

......To carry into the school on the off-chance that your will be attacked in the next five minutes is a bit paranoid.

Want to tell that to the schools in Columbine or Sandy Hook? 5 minutes is an eternity when there is an active shooter.

 

[Warrior1256]

Typical overreaction by the anti-gun education system.

Unfortunately, this is the new normal.

 

[R O Bill]

Take the school board to court for circumventing the pre-emption law!!!!