"Mental Illness" prohibitions on CCW permits


BradAnderson

New member
What mental illness ??

If I've taken an anti depressent for anxiety, is that necessarily a "mental Illness?"

Point being, it's very subjective in my opinion. If I've been committed to a psych ward under unvoluntary conditions and diagnosed with Schizophrenia then I can see the point, but as mentioned, just taking an anti depressent for something like anxiety or enduring the loss of a loved one is not a "mental Illness" in my opinion.

It's very subjective and yet the queston that is asked on the application leaves much to be open to discussion.

Nope, NOTHING is open to discussion as far as your getting the CCW or not is concerned.
The form asks if you've "EVER been diagnosed with a mental illness" (emphasis in original)-- which they define as "any mental condition which prevents dealing with the matters of everyday life."

And if you answer "yes," then you don't get the CCW-- and if you answer "no" then they can search your private records and jail you for perjury.

It's just a sign of the empire we live in-- and how people are only as "free" as they leash they're on; and if they see that leash is longer for themselves than others, it makes them feel superior, like a slave who gets "special privileges."
 

BradAnderson

New member
Some states use the term "adjudicated." This leaves far less in the hands of unaccountable people and more in the hands of the courts. It is not simply enough to be found to be mentally ill. It requires that a court declare it.

In some of those states, you're free to own a firearm again after the court decides that you're no longer a threat to yourself or others. It seems like a reasonable compromise. There are still some issues, but it's better than letting a simple doctor deny your rights.

There's also an issue of Due Process under the 14th Amendment, i.e. that the person wasn't given "Fair Warning" that they would be deprived of this privilege when subjecting themselves to such a diagnosis.

However someone like me, who receives Social Security Income for disability from PTSD, can't really escape such a diagnosis, and still get medication-prescription for it.

Perhaps I should have just said I felt fine, but that I was just "always extremely tired for no reason," and the reason would have been attributed to Chronic Fatigue-- a "physical" problem; then I could get the medication some other way.

Most people are just like "McMurphy" from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Next," i.e. they think that when they have an encounter with the Mental Health field, that it's all about caring and compassion etc. and so they seek it out too readily and too trustingly.

Then too late, they find out the REALITY that there's NO getting out of it-- NO way to escape the stigma; and that authories can get away with doing anything to you on the grounds that you're "crazy," and so society will condone it. People will treat you like an outcast or inferior, and assume that you're delusional and irrational, a complete "lunatic."

In short, liberal politically-correct society REFUSES to acknowledge the medieval attitudes and hysterical perceptions that society attaches to "mental illness," and the stereotypical bigotry and prejudice that society attaches to it.
If you're an alcoholic-- well, that's "DIFFERENT, EVERYONE" drinks.

But if you have PTSD because you were attacked by criminals, or in a war, or abused as a child-- well then "we can't take any chances with your crazy little self, by letting you loonies play with guns or sharp objects!" It doesn't matter if there's no evidence that you're a danger to yourself or others-- the simple term "mental illness" throws all your rights out the nearest window-- just like they used to do with mandatory shock-treatments and frontal lobotomy.
Again, NO ONE WILL CARE-- in fact they'll APPROVE of "society disarming crazies."

This is why we see that there's NOTHING more dangerous than a fool with power-- or admitting that you have "mental illness" of ANY kind. Even if your whole family was crushed by a steam-roller right in front of you.

In fact, we don't even hear that mental patients were the FIRST victims of the Holocaust, because they're not considered "legitimate victims;" 28 mental patients were subjected by German doctors to something called "Carbon Monoxide Therapy--" i.e. forced to breathe nothing but carbon monoxide;" after this, they were "cured" by no longer being mental patients.
From this, they decided to try it on Jews.

The moral:
Do NOT EVER admit that you have a "mental illness," or even subject yourself to such a diagnosis, by saying that you have symptoms of ANY problems with mood, anxiety, etc.

Just say that you are just "extremely tired for no reason," and that if you have any anxiety, it's simply over "HOW YOU'LL PAY YOUR BILLS WHEN YOU'RE TOO TIRED TO WORK."
Other than that, YOU FEEL FINE.

Then, you'll get a diagnosis of "unexplained Chronic Fatigue."

If you DO subject yourself to a true diagnosis, use a FAKE NAME, and PAY CASH. Then you can get a prescription and treatment plan-- PAY CASH for that too, or at least set up a fake checking-account for it.

ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR REPUTATION-- WITH YOUR LIFE; it could MEAN your life.
 

danhammondsr

Dan Hammond, Sr.
Some states use the term "adjudicated." This leaves far less in the hands of unaccountable people and more in the hands of the courts. It is not simply enough to be found to be mentally ill. It requires that a court declare it.

In some of those states, you're free to own a firearm again after the court decides that you're no longer a threat to yourself or others. It seems like a reasonable compromise. There are still some issues, but it's better than letting a simple doctor deny your rights.

Exactly correct. And a recent federal law does the same thing. That forced the VA to remove many vets from their "mental-illness-so-no-guns-for-you" list that included many vets who had sought counselling for stress and anxiety and post-traumatic-stress. They had been placed on the lists during the Clinton Administration, and through this law were removed.

That same law made it a requirement for states to report to the federal gov't those that have been adjuducated as mentally ill. This followed on the heels of the VA Tech shooting in which the VCA (violent criminal actor) HAD been adjudicated mentally ill in a state court, but the court hadn't reported it to the feds so he didn't pop as a prohibitied person on the NICS check and thus was allowed to buy the guns he used.

Just seeking help for a problem doesn't make you mentally ill in the eyes of the law. But when a judge bangs the gavel and says, "You're nuts," that does.
 

Red Hat

New member
In order to be denied your 2A rights by federal law you must be adjudicated or have been committed to a mental institution. If you voluntarily enter a mental institution it does not effect your rights. If a VA employee says you lose your rights if you are diagnosed with PTSD they are wrong! Period!
 

BradAnderson

New member
In order to be denied your 2A rights by federal law you must be adjudicated or have been committed to a mental institution. If you voluntarily enter a mental institution it does not effect your rights. If a VA employee says you lose your rights if you are diagnosed with PTSD they are wrong! Period!

They're not denying your 2A rights, they're denying your CCW PRIVILEGES.

As for the VA, they might make it a stipulation on receiving benefits-- i.e. you have to choose between your gun and your income.
 

P220

New member
In WA State, It says you can not carry a weapon if you have been commited to a mental hospital or government recognized in-patient mental hospital. You can not carry in these establishments either. But with a CCW you can carry in a regular mental health facility, such as a check in, check out for normal mental health care issues, that does not have an inpatient attachment. So, as long as you have not been commited you are ok to carry in WA. I would speak with a lawyer to see if any of your state laws prohibit you from carrying legaly. If not, I would check no. My gun stores have stated the same thing to me, when I first purchased my own firearm. I also noticed this question.
 

Red Hat

New member

danhammondsr

Dan Hammond, Sr.
*Been Committed*

In WA State, It says you can not carry a weapon if you have been commited to a mental hospital or government recognized in-patient mental hospital. You can not carry in these establishments either. But with a CCW you can carry in a regular mental health facility, such as a check in, check out for normal mental health care issues, that does not have an inpatient attachment. So, as long as you have not been commited you are ok to carry in WA. I would speak with a lawyer to see if any of your state laws prohibit you from carrying legaly. If not, I would check no. My gun stores have stated the same thing to me, when I first purchased my own firearm. I also noticed this question.

The operative phrase in this an most others is, "Been Committed." This means someone else got you committed to a mental institution. Voluntarily seeking treatment is not normally a disqualifier.

This is where the adjudicated piece comes into play. If a judge sent you there, you're disqualified, and probably a prohibited person as well.

And most state mental institutions are off-limit for carrying. It's not so much that they're worried about you, as they are the patients. I have a cousin that was in an institution for a while. He was in a bad car accident as a youth and suffered significant brain damage. He is usually well-behaved, but has occasional bouts of anger, and he's strong as an ox! I would never carry around him.
 

BradAnderson

New member
The operative phrase in this an most others is, "Been Committed." This means someone else got you committed to a mental institution. Voluntarily seeking treatment is not normally a disqualifier.

Also, only a judge can commit someone, so this requires due legal process that you're a definite threat to yourself or others. Meanwhile, the "diagnosed with a mental illness" provision simply means a doctor says "it's all in your head--" and could pertain to ANY psychosomatic symptom, which EVERYONE has at some point. If you feel hot and think you might have a fever, and it turns out you don't-- MENTAL ILLNESS. If you have chronic stomach-pains and it turns out to be spasms instead of an ulcer: MENTAL ILLNESS. If you work 20 hours/day and you're stressed: MENTAL ILLNESS. If you're depressed because your family just got crushed right in front of you yesterday: MENTAL ILLNESS.

So you get the picture: it's a medieval hysteria where basically they can cry "wolf" all day, and everyone still believes it-- they always JUMP at the chance to make themselves feel "sane" and superior, even while they call "psychic friends hotline" and play Tarot.
 

BradAnderson

New member
They tried in on the Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, political disidents, those with birth defects, and other undesirables.

Well of course; the point is that if you can rationalize euthenizing anyone, you can do it against EVERYONE; but notice that the man didn't say "first they came for the mentally ill, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't." It's simply not a popular label like "anti-semitism."

Mental patients are the most unpopular-- and Germany didn't even allow elective ABORTION like we do (while the USA also had mandatory sterilization for "imbeciles" long before Germany did). Thus the USA has extreme fear, hatred and contempt mental illness -- one look at the number of homeless in the USA, is proof enough of this.. not to mention that they'd often be locked up, sterilized, lobotomized, etc. Even Howard Hughes only escaped it because he WAS Howard Hughes; if he was Joe Average, he would have STAYED locked up..
 

vn6869

New member
AND Now we have Obamacare.
As I said earlier in this thread, this whole gun control mania is going to take on a new approach.
The Obamacare bill has soo many invasions into our privacy and freedom Katie bar the door :wacko:
 

BradAnderson

New member
AND Now we have Obamacare.
As I said earlier in this thread, this whole gun control mania is going to take on a new approach.
The Obamacare bill has soo many invasions into our privacy and freedom Katie bar the door :wacko:

Obama, Biden AND Hillary-- the unholy trinity.

However, the state CCW laws ALREADY open your private medical records for public scrutiny, so that cat's already out of the bag.

But I'm not surprised at all; this was all just a matter of time under our Leviathan regime. Thank God that states are starting to pass sovereignty-laws to put their foot down on the 10th Amendment.
Naturally, I don't think they go far enough-- but it's better than what they've done so far, which is nothing.
 

MONTANA

New member
"As to the definition of "mental illness," the law defines as "any nervous or mental condition interfering with everyday life." This is incredibly vague."

This can be a real mess depending on the state in which you reside. Let's say that you go to a Louisiana Mental Health Center. You and your spouse are simply having marital problems and you want to know if a counselor could talk with you. Many of the centers then ask you to complete paperwork for an initial screening. Records are all electronic. You might then see an on-call clinician who tells you that services are so limited that you don't qualify----that the center is mandated to provide services to the chronically mentally ill.

A few months later, you apply for a concealed carry permit. Guess who applied for services at a mental health center? It can be a real ordeal trying to get it straightened out. My advice would be to avoid government agencies for any type of counseling services if at all possible.
 

BradAnderson

New member
When Supreme Chancellor Palpatine Obama was giving his speach following the passage of the health care deform bill, I was reminded of a quote Natalie Portman made in Star Wars Episode III. "So this is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause."


Actually the allegory was based on Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, which founded "The Grand Army of the Republic..." but if the jack-boot fits.
 

Bangba

"Informed $ Independent"
In NH you must be declared by the court to be mentally ill. No court ruleing, no problem. Isn't it ironic that if you come back from deployment and P.T.S.D. gives you a problem, you can not get a Licence to carry. However, if they want to send you back into theater,That's OK. I'll take a vet with issues over the bad guys any day.
 

BradAnderson

New member
In NH you must be declared by the court to be mentally ill. No court ruleing, no problem. Isn't it ironic that if you come back from deployment and P.T.S.D. gives you a problem, you can not get a Licence to carry. However, if they want to send you back into theater,That's OK. I'll take a vet with issues over the bad guys any day.

Great, if you happen to live there.
That's not the case in most other states, including mine; you just need to have EVER been diagnosed by ANY doctor. This is purely arbitrary and unconstitutional, but we live in a dictatorship, the question of whose power is considered to be "settled by the Civil War" rather than by actual law.
 

mappow

New member
So far there's nothing available in any medical history to LEO's during review of your CCP unless you've been adjudicated in a court of law. What's between you and your doctor is privileged. (SO FAR). If you feel a need to report a medical issue on your application, so be it. I would not otherwise disclose any personal medical history.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining! John Wayne
 

BradAnderson

New member
So far there's nothing available in any medical history to LEO's during review of your CCP unless you've been adjudicated in a court of law. What's between you and your doctor is privileged. (SO FAR). If you feel a need to report a medical issue on your application, so be it. I would not otherwise disclose any personal medical history.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining! John Wayne

The CCW application states by signing it, that you WAIVE all privilege, and give them permission to search ALL your medical records.
 

Saber

Dan Ortego
Sad but true..., I foresee a time not long from now whereby anyone who was ever prescribed medication for depression or anxiety will have his or her permit revoked. Change we can be believe in?

Regards,
Dan O.
 

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