Mental Illness / Mental Disability

[hillking2010]

Today I was in a store looking at some books with my fiancee and I noticed a woman acting strangely with one of the other customers. She kept going up to customers and each one became uncomfortable and removed themselves from the conversation. Because of the distance I couldn't hear what was being said but my alarms were going off.

Eventually she approached me and was looking at me but never said anything. I ignored her and she never spoke to me because I didn't acknowledge her. Thing is, my fiancee and I both work in the mental health field and realized that this woman was mentally disabled. However, before I realized this she put me on edge and I began to mentally prepare myself for all scenarios (I was CC'ing at the time). I noticed that another customer became very upset with this lady and began to raise his voice.

The topic I'd like to put out there is this: how do you react to people and maintain your composure until you can determine whether or not someone is a threat or has a disability. This lady had no ill intentions, but watching people approach you and talk to you always sets off alarm bells. Especially for people that can't recognize mental illnesses and disabilities as easily as we can, it seems like they might potentially kill or injure someone over a misunderstanding.

I know this is a somewhat frequent problem with police officers who kill people with mental disabilities because they haven't been trained to recognize and handle people in that situation.

Thoughts?

 

[kelcarry]

I do not know what you expect from a bunch of people on a conceal carry forum. You do what you gotta do and what common sense tells you to do. Precursor, regardless of whether someone is mentally ill etal is to avoid, evade etc. Precursor to doing anything with your firearm is still imminent danger and unless there is a firearm or another weapon, you may be uncomfortable but it is not imminent danger. Personally, in 72 years, I cannot ever recall being in a position that had me confronting someone so unbalanced that discomfort or thoughts of proactive defense ever entered my mind.

 

[Jay]

Respectfully sir, if you and your fiancee' work in mental health and this lady presented herself as having diminished mental capacity, and posed you no threat, I would hope that your first thought would have been to determine if there was a caretaker with her, that perhaps may have become separated from her. I would hope your focus would shift to the safety and well-being of the lady that was causing all the concern.

Profiling is sometimes frowned upon, but in mental health, one constantly profiles, and profiling can be a life-saver to those gun owners who choose to carry.

 

[cds0699]

I agree with Jay. Her safety is just as important as yours and everyone else in the store. This situation could have literally been anything, even something as innocent as a lonely lady looking for someone to talk to. The only way to know is to spend a few minutes to listen and be courteous and find out whats really going on, then you can make an educated solution to what to do, rather than guesswork.

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[apvbguy]

this is why you should consider carrying less than lethal weapons to deal with situations like this. EDPs can be a threat that needs to be dealt with. using deadly force is not warranted in some situations, nonetheless you need the ability to protect yourself from unstable people.
this is why I carry an asp and/or pepper spray which I can use to defend myself in situations where using deadly physical force cannot be justified. YMMV

 

[apvbguy]

Respectfully sir, if you and your fiancee' work in mental health and this lady presented herself as having diminished mental capacity, and posed you no threat, I would hope that your first thought would have been to determine if there was a caretaker with her, that perhaps may have become separated from her. I would hope your focus would shift to the safety and well-being of the lady that was causing all the concern.

Profiling is sometimes frowned upon, but in mental health, one constantly profiles, and profiling can be a life-saver to those gun owners who choose to carry.

I don't think this is sound advice. in this litigious society they could be setting themselves up for massive problems if the disturbed person becomes violent and damages property or injures others, the best advice is to be wary and clear out. I won't even begin to touch the massive issue of mental health issues in the US

 

[apvbguy]

I do not know what you expect from a bunch of people on a conceal carry forum. You do what you gotta do and what common sense tells you to do. Precursor, regardless of whether someone is mentally ill etal is to avoid, evade etc. Precursor to doing anything with your firearm is still imminent danger and unless there is a firearm or another weapon, you may be uncomfortable but it is not imminent danger. Personally, in 72 years, I cannot ever recall being in a position that had me confronting someone so unbalanced that discomfort or thoughts of proactive defense ever entered my mind.

I guess that you've never spent much time in places like NYC, LA or one of many other larger US cities where encounters with unstable/mentally ill people are almost a daily occurrence

 

[apvbguy]

I know this is a somewhat frequent problem with police officers who kill people with mental disabilities because they haven't been trained to recognize and handle people in that situation.

?

do you have any facts, data or cites to bolster this assertion?

I think you are one of the anti gun types who have come to troll the gun forums

 

[Jay]

I don't think this is sound advice. in this litigious society they could be setting themselves up for massive problems if the disturbed person becomes violent and damages property or injures others, the best advice is to be wary and clear out. I won't even begin to touch the massive issue of mental health issues in the US

Respectfully, sir, I think it is sound advice.

How many folks have you interacted with who are affected by diminished mental capacity? I spent over a decade working with Veterans in a psych hospital. Perhaps you would also advocate abandoning all those who fail to meet your "safe to interact with" criteria.

I won't even begin to touch the massive issue of mental health issues in the US... yet you posted your opinion in this thread. It's your opinion, but I'll never share it. By all means, you feel free to flee in fear, from a person who might actually need some help or compassion.

My opinion says that you might be better to stick with topics you know something about.

Oh... Merry Christmas

 

[Mobuck]

"They" should wear a sign.
I'm not a very sympathetic individual on the best of days. Last June in the process of my job, I was invited to enter a home by a late teens/early 20(ish) male. The female in the house could not answer my questions so I left. Later, the homeowner and I had a confrontation during which he claimed the young man was autistic and I should not have accepted his offer to enter. I flat out told the guy if he was using that for an excuse, he should make the person "wear a sign". That certainly didn't help the attitude.
I tend to simply ignore people who I don't wish to have conversation with.

 

[Nightmare45]

Mental Health is a major issue in this country agreed, but the safety of my family and self is first on my mind. While recognizing the need for help, I also recognize many of the psychotropic drugs have unintended consequences, assuming they are even taken by the person needing same. Safety first, threat mentally ill or not, safety off.

 

[Jay]

I flat out told the guy if he was using that for an excuse, he should make the person "wear a sign".

Last time I heard of a person requiring that some particular folks wear signs, that person's name was Adolph something or other...


What does your sign say? .... "I sit in judgement, and decide who has to "wear a sign" ????

React to a threat? Certainly

Learn to tell the difference between threat, and no threat? Again, certainly.

 

[kelcarry]

I guess that you've never spent much time in places like NYC, LA or one of many other larger US cities where encounters with unstable/mentally ill people are almost a daily occurrence

I guess you read me wrong. Born in NYC and lived in the NYC area for 62 years. Very different now, I will admit, but that does not change my attitude. I cannot do anything for someone that I do not understand nor even have a medical opinion on. I agree with some replies about looking around for a caregiver, but I get impression that thread writer is talking about those "between the lines"--the mentally whatever, who just roam around with nowhere to go and no one to assist them---Put it all together, I evade and avoid--there is nothing I can do for them unless they get violent with imminent danger to myself--then I can act--other than that, nada.

 

[GlassWolf]

Today I was in a store looking at some books with my fiancee and I noticed a woman acting strangely with one of the other customers. She kept going up to customers and each one became uncomfortable and removed themselves from the conversation. Because of the distance I couldn't hear what was being said but my alarms were going off.

Eventually she approached me and was looking at me but never said anything. I ignored her and she never spoke to me because I didn't acknowledge her. Thing is, my fiancee and I both work in the mental health field and realized that this woman was mentally disabled. However, before I realized this she put me on edge and I began to mentally prepare myself for all scenarios (I was CC'ing at the time). I noticed that another customer became very upset with this lady and began to raise his voice.

The topic I'd like to put out there is this: how do you react to people and maintain your composure until you can determine whether or not someone is a threat or has a disability. This lady had no ill intentions, but watching people approach you and talk to you always sets off alarm bells. Especially for people that can't recognize mental illnesses and disabilities as easily as we can, it seems like they might potentially kill or injure someone over a misunderstanding.

I know this is a somewhat frequent problem with police officers who kill people with mental disabilities because they haven't been trained to recognize and handle people in that situation.

Thoughts?

I'm a very trusting person by nature, which is probably not a great thing to be, but I live by the motto of, "Be polite, be professional. Always have a plan to kill everyone you meet." I'm open minded, and am good at spotting things like mental disabilities, autism, socially awkward people, and so forth. I'm nice to pretty much everyone I meet unless they go out of their way to jerk my chain. Then I'm polite, and abrupt, cut things short and curt, and de-escelate and depart. A person's personality is going to paly largely into how they react to these sorts of things, and I've found that while growing up, I lived and spent a lot of time in my own head, and day-dreaming, which never made me one of the cool popular kids, I noticed that the cool, popular ones were some of the most narrow minded, shallow thinkers, because they never did anything that didn't fit into their narrow view of acceptance of their peers. These are the "average people" I encounter day to day for the most part, so I can recognize them and accept them as well. I know how they think and I know how to interact with them to get what I need and then be on my way. I'll just stop there before I start ramblimg and go off on a tangent about intelligence, and philosophies, and all of that.

 

[apvbguy]

Respectfully, sir, I think it is sound advice.

How many folks have you interacted with who are affected by diminished mental capacity? I spent over a decade working with Veterans in a psych hospital. Perhaps you would also advocate abandoning all those who fail to meet your "safe to interact with" criteria.

I am not in the business of saving the world, I am in the business of making sure that I and my loved ones are safe and secure, I'll leave the saving the world stuff to "people" like you.
now go back to whatever libturd forum that sent you here

 

[apvbguy]

I guess you read me wrong. Born in NYC and lived in the NYC area for 62 years. Very different now, I will admit, but that does not change my attitude. I cannot do anything for someone that I do not understand nor even have a medical opinion on. I agree with some replies about looking around for a caregiver, but I get impression that thread writer is talking about those "between the lines"--the mentally whatever, who just roam around with nowhere to go and no one to assist them---Put it all together, I evade and avoid--there is nothing I can do for them unless they get violent with imminent danger to myself--then I can act--other than that, nada.

I agree, evade and avoid is the best tactic to employ, saving the world is best left to the self appointed pros

 

[GlassWolf]

I don't know about saving the world, but helping someone else in need isn't a bad thing. We all need something from other people at some point, big or small. It's nice to know someone is willing to lend that hand and not just kick it out of the way only thinking of themselves "and their loved ones" instead.

 

[Jay]

I am not in the business of saving the world, I am in the business of making sure that I and my loved ones are safe and secure, I'll leave the saving the world stuff to "people" like you.
now go back to whatever libturd forum that sent you here

Childish response, Adolph. If I knew of a retail outlet for maturity, I'd refer you to it. I'd bet that you're not the poster child for this forum that you envision yourself to be. A couple of PM's I've received in response to your earlier post, bears that out. What goes around usually comes around. Wait for it, you'll know it.

 

[Jay]

I agree, evade and avoid is the best tactic to employ, saving the world is best left to the self appointed pros

Then you'll be leaving this forum? No pros at saving the world, but there are some folks who have some concerns regarding those not so fortunate.

Good luck and my sympathies, sir.

 

[cds0699]

It's not about saving the world, it's about people helping one another. If we all thought about each other rather than be like "oh well, it's not my problem" then we would all live in a much better world. We need to be part of the solution, not adding to the problem.

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