Man Open Carry's @ High School Soccer Game, Coache's/Parent's Freak Out.

[The_Outlaw]

The open carrying man who was not identified was asked to leave by assistant athletics director Fred VandenBrand. He instead put his firearm in the car, according to MLive. Still, the man returning to the stands made officials uncertain, leading them to stop the game 15 minutes before it was officially over. “I thought it was necessary to clear the field of players and parents. It is regretful that the boys on both teams could not finish. I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I thought it best to err on the side of caution,” Western Michigan Christian coach David Hulings told MLive.

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[Jhorton71]

With the way hot heads are at games these days I would probably be a little nervous myself. You hear about arguments in the stands and people getting upset about officials all the time. So how do you feel when this guy starts to get emotional over a call or maybe a bad hit on his son? I believe in guns on school property but I don't know what sort of training or attitude this man had while there at the game!

 

[HoJo]

With the way hot heads are at games these days I would probably be a little nervous myself. You hear about arguments in the stands and people getting upset about officials all the time. So how do you feel when this guy starts to get emotional over a call or maybe a bad hit on his son? I believe in guns on school property but I don't know what sort of training or attitude this man had while there at the game!

Are you suggesting that because you are a little nervous we should give up our second amendment right to carry?

 

[The_Outlaw]

With the way hot heads are at games these days I would probably be a little nervous myself. You hear about arguments in the stands and people getting upset about officials all the time. So how do you feel when this guy starts to get emotional over a call or maybe a bad hit on his son? I believe in guns on school property but I don't know what sort of training or attitude this man had while there at the game!

If some knucklehead decided to pull out a deadly weapon (gun, knife, boxcutter, etc...) at a ball game (or anyplace else) then he/she could be stopped by law abiding armed citizen's or LEO's.

I got into a very heated and unexpected argument with someone very recently.
Very foul language was thrown at me and very harsh word's & false accusation's where being thrown at me.
Because I was being unjustly attacked, I was livid with anger.
The whole time I had a Ruger LCP in my pocket.
Not once did I even entertain the thought of pulling out my weapon.
Why not? 1) Because my life was not in danger 2) Because I'm not a fool 3) Because it would have been un-justified, & 4) I would have ended up in prison if I did...

The overwhelming-majority of "Law Abiding' gun owner's, like myself, continue to abide by the Law, even when we are upset or angry.

 

[ezkl2230]

A couple of things about this incident.

First, the teams playing were from private schools, not public schools, so under Michigan law they had the right to ask him to leave.

"Talking to the officer...we had a right to ask him to leave, and if he returned without meeting our conditions, he could be charged with trespassing," he said.

The carrier did so, returning after he had secured his firearm in his vehicle in the parking lot. That sounds like he complied with their conditions.

Second, he has the right under Michigan law to store his firearm in his vehicle. Parking lots in Michigan are not covered under private property rights.

Police were called to the scene, and there is nothing in the article to indicate that the man was still carrying his firearm. He complied with the request to disarm himself, so the game was called early for nothing. They could just as easily asked someone they trusted to accompany the carrier to his vehicle to confirm that he had indeed complied with their request, and the game could have gone on without a hitch. I guess that makes too much sense.

 

[wolf_fire]

With the way hot heads are at games these days I would probably be a little nervous myself. You hear about arguments in the stands and people getting upset about officials all the time. So how do you feel when this guy starts to get emotional over a call or maybe a bad hit on his son? I believe in guns on school property but I don't know what sort of training or attitude this man had while there at the game!

Wow... that sounded like it came right out of the mouth of Pelosi or Feinstein herself.

Oh, he has a gun so he's got to be a danger if he happens to get emotionally wrapped up in a game. Seriously????

Oh my gosh, what kind of mayhem could he do with that gun, that we all now know he is carrying since MI won't allow him to carry concealed at the event?

This thinking is not productive. Maybe he should have just carried concealed... oh, crap, he can't. MI, won't allow that. Did the officials see if anyone else felt the way they did? Was anyone threatened by this man? Did this man not give up his right and put his gun in his car? But this wasn't good enough. No... bad man with a gun (well not anymore) is still in the stands. Guess we'll call the entire game!!

This is utter nonsense.

 

[ezkl2230]

It's amazing that he wore it in the stands without incident and without anyone else making a fuss about it. It took a coach on the field, who was obviously paying more attention to what was happening in the stands than on the field, to notice that someone was legally carrying a firearm and then to raise the alarm. Could it be that other parents were already accustomed to seeing this parent carry and knew there was nothing to fear?

Btw jhorton71, if we waited until everyone was cool with the exercise of our rights, we would never EXERCISE those rights.

 

[Rhino]

....Police were called to the scene, and there is nothing in the article to indicate that the man was still carrying his firearm. He complied with the request to disarm himself, so the game was called early for nothing. They could just as easily asked someone they trusted to accompany the carrier to his vehicle to confirm that he had indeed complied with their request, and the game could have gone on without a hitch. I guess that makes too much sense.

Common sense simply doesn't factor into the equation when hoplophobia is involved.

 

[NavyLCDR]

With the way hot heads are at games these days I would probably be a little nervous myself. You hear about arguments in the stands and people getting upset about officials all the time. So how do you feel when this guy starts to get emotional over a call or maybe a bad hit on his son? I believe in guns on school property but I don't know what sort of training or attitude this man had while there at the game!

The Brady Campaign and their follower groups say exactly the same thing about people carrying guns in shopping mall parking lots. Maybe that is where you heard it first and you are just repeating it?

 

[Jhorton71]

CCW in some states are not allowed to be carried into bars because of the potential. I am an ex football official and some people that I thought were level headed in person had become very violent at football games and baseball games that I have officiated at. As a matter of fact one instance actually involved a police officer in another game in our area. Put yourself in the officials spot. An official has no way to carry to protect himself so as a matter of instance you took away his rights by him having the same right of protection as the man that carried at the game. If you open carry in a shopping mall, I have the same protection since I'm allowed to carry.

 

[Jhorton71]

By the way it was not stated if the man had a CCW or not. In Michigan it is illegal to carry in a vehicle unless you have a Permit which could only be secured in the trunk. Now that we covered state law lets cover federal law. Title 18 of the United States Code section 922(q) contains the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995, which prohibits the possession of a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reason to believe, is a school zone. The statute defines a school zone as the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school, or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school. The ban on firearm possession does not apply: (a) if the possession is on on private property outside the school grounds.

 

[HoJo]

CCW in some states are not allowed to be carried into bars because of the potential. I am an ex football official and some people that I thought were level headed in person had become very violent at football games and baseball games that I have officiated at. As a matter of fact one instance actually involved a police officer in another game in our area. Put yourself in the officials spot. An official has no way to carry to protect himself so as a matter of instance you took away his rights by him having the same right of protection as the man that carried at the game. If you open carry in a shopping mall, I have the same protection since I'm allowed to carry.

You sir are an asshat.

 

[NavyLCDR]

By the way it was not stated if the man had a CCW or not. In Michigan it is illegal to carry in a vehicle unless you have a Permit which could only be secured in the trunk. Now that we covered state law lets cover federal law. Title 18 of the United States Code section 922(q) contains the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995, which prohibits the possession of a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reason to believe, is a school zone. The statute defines a school zone as the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school, or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school. The ban on firearm possession does not apply: (a) if the possession is on on private property outside the school grounds.

I fail to see your point.

The ban of firearm possession also does not apply:

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

 

[Jhorton71]

Since that private property belonged to the school it is considered school property under federal law. And since you believe you have rights the school has rights to ask you not to bring it on school property including the school parking lot since the school parking lot would be within 1000ft of school property. You can't expect people to respect your rights if you don't respect theirs.

 

[NavyLCDR]

All we are saying is that it is stupid to stop a game and empty the stadium because someone who was legally carrying a holstered handgun was asked to leave the game, so he locked the gun in his car and returned unarmed. 100% idiotic and childish behavior on the part of the school officials. They are trusting the government to protect them by enacting a no guns zone, so why not just call the government (police) and let them handle this one guy, now unarmed, instead of evacuating the whole stadium? I would be willing to bet my October 15th paycheck that his wasn't the only gun locked in a vehicle in that parking lot. 'Course the way things are looking, I won't have an October 15th paycheck.

 

[Itstjs]

I firmly believe with all of these recent events popping up in the Michigan Media where people are openly carrying to school events, I believe 1 of 2 things will happen. Either, 1, Theyll BAN open carry on school property or in school buildings/at events or 2, allow concealed carry at such places to prevent issues on both sides. Out of sight out of mind.
Saying that, Would I have openly carried to a school event? Probably not. If anything, not went or just left it in the vehicle/home. I only carry about 95% of the time, and a school sporting event wouldnt have been one of them.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Saying that, Would I have openly carried to a school event? Probably not. If anything, not went or just left it in the vehicle/home. I only carry about 95% of the time, and a school sporting event wouldnt have been one of them.

In Washington it is illegal for us to carry concealed or openly during a school sporting event, so the gun gets locked in the car, but we can (with a CPL) carry on school grounds while picking up or dropping off students. I always open carry and have for 4 years since I inherited my stepdaughter who was in middle school and now a Junior in High School. I always get out of the car to either let her drive (now) or just to give her a hug before she was driving. Never an issue here.

 

[Bikenut]

Since that private property belonged to the school it is considered school property under federal law. And since you believe you have rights the school has rights to ask you not to bring it on school property including the school parking lot since the school parking lot would be within 1000ft of school property. You can't expect people to respect your rights if you don't respect theirs.

You are correct that because the school is private property they can require a person to leave the entire property, including the parking lot, because of private property rights and have them arrested for trespass if they refuse to leave... however... the 1000ft stipulation in Federal law does not apply! to someone who is "licensed" to "possess" (note the law references licensed in reference to possession... not licensed in reference to carry) because of what NavyLCDR mentions below.

I fail to see your point.

The ban of firearm possession also does not apply:

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Hence the Federal law does not apply to a person who is "licensed" to posses a firearm by that State but any applicable trespass law(s) of that State would apply.

Please let us not confuse the issue of private property rights and the State trespass laws that support those rights with Federal laws that do not apply.

I am not an attorney.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are correct that because the school is private property they can require a person to leave the entire property, including the parking lot, because of private property rights and have them arrested for trespass if they refuse to leave.

And if the athletic director(s), coach(es), or whoever had an issue with the guy trespassing, why not just call the police for them to deal with it? This stunt was nothing more than grandstanding by the school officials. They are giving school officials everywhere a bad name and doing more to hurt their cause then help. I mean, really what they are saying is, "We don't trust the police enough to handle this one person, who has been here for 1/2 the game already, so we are going to evacuate the stadium out of fear of this one, now unarmed, person."

 

[wolf_fire]

CCW in some states are not allowed to be carried into bars because of the potential. I am an ex football official and some people that I thought were level headed in person had become very violent at football games and baseball games that I have officiated at. As a matter of fact one instance actually involved a police officer in another game in our area. Put yourself in the officials spot. An official has no way to carry to protect himself so as a matter of instance you took away his rights by him having the same right of protection as the man that carried at the game. If you open carry in a shopping mall, I have the same protection since I'm allowed to carry.

Based on your logic, if we take away the right of one, then we should take away the right of everyone. Seriously???? Are you an eleutherophobe? Which other rights shall we infringe upon or eliminate because someone is irrationally scared?

Now your "instances" at your games, how many of them ended up in gunfire because someone was emotionally distraught at the outcome of the game?

I carry, and I have been angry, never have I pulled my firearm in anger and I don't know anyone that carries that would. We pull our firearm when we are threatened with serious bodily injury or death. Going fisticuffs in a game doesn't constitute a huge jump in the force continuum.

Anymore of your Brady-esque defenses and I'm claiming troll.