M&P with a safety, why not

[upnorth]

My question is, if you're going to buy a M&P pistol why not with a safety. The cost is the same, it's in a very convenient location. This would allow you to CC with the safety on and after you become comfortable carrying, it could be carried with the safety off, if desired. I also know that under pressure the less that needs to be done the better, for home defense the safety could be left off.

Also, couldn't the safety be removed at a later date.

I know buy a Glock, the safety is between your ears!! :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[eaccents]

M&P with safety

My question is, if you're going to buy a M&P pistol why not with a safety. The cost is the same, it's in a very convenient location. This would allow you to CC with the safety on and after you become comfortable carrying, it could be carried with the safety off, if desired. I also know that under pressure the less that needs to be done the better, for home defense the safety could be left off.

Also, couldn't the safety be removed at a later date.

I know buy a Glock, the safety is between your ears!! :biggrin::biggrin:

I agree: why not?

I think that if it gives you peace of mind when you are first learning to use the gun, then it serves its function.

I highly recommend that one work up to using the gun WITHOUT the safety as I subscribe to the notion that a manual safety lever is not needed on a pistol that has DA capability. As you said in your initial post, the less that needs to be done under stress the better. I am a little confused that you note that the safety will be off for home defense ... is wielding your firearm when NOT at home any less stressful?

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: We train so that our responses are reflexive. Train for consistency. If you have to disengage the safety in some situations but not in others, will you remember which situation requires what action? Do you want to spend precious moments figuring that out?

I have nothing against Glocks, but a Glock feels very different from an M&P. Go with what feels good in the hand, and what you shoot comfortably and well.

Best,

 

[upnorth]

I am a little confused that you note that the safety will be off for home defense ... is wielding your firearm when NOT at home any less stressful?

My only point, this is an option, one might not be as concerned about the safety off, when not carrying. I agree with you that "Train for consistency" is the best policy. I was just pointing out the option.

I own several rifles and shotguns.... old to guns.... new to handguns and CC. Many decisions to be made, any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks for the reply, good points

 

[S&WM&P40]

Been there done that with my M&P 9C, I hated it and sold the firearm and picked up a non thumb safety M&P 9C.

 

[upnorth]

Been there done that with my M&P 9C, I hated it and sold the firearm and picked up a non thumb safety M&P 9C.

What about the gun with the safety didn't you like? Do you know, could the safety have been removed instead of buying a different gun?

 

[Treo]

If that floats your boat go for it. My carry guns are all DA/SA and they all have a safety ( well, one has a decocker) I never use the safety unless I need to stop firing at the range.

 

[Psyk00diver]

I have a M&P 40 with a Frame Safty. I love it. Ihave not had a problem with clicking off the safty, but i was brought up on shooting a 1911. Your right that my best safty is between my ears, the second best safty is at the end of my right hand, and the third best is on the frame of my firearm. In my opinion on safty, is the same as women, the more the better!

 

[Raider-3]

I purposely bought one with a safety because my military background with the m9. Drawing and depressing the safety in the same motion for me has become a muscle memory thing for me and I don't want to change it.

 

[S&WM&P40]

What about the gun with the safety didn't you like? Do you know, could the safety have been removed instead of buying a different gun?

It was not for me at that time. There really is no need for a external thumb safety on an M&P other then for looks and to meet commie state gun list demands. The S&W M&P is loaded to the hilt with safety's as it is, mag release safety,hinged trigger, firing pin block safety,loaded chamber peep hole ETC..

The thumb safety can be removed but then your left with a hole in the frame where the safety use to be, it will also void your warranty unless a S&W authorized service center does the work.

Why buy a M&P with a thumb safety if you just plan on removing it at a later?

 

[upnorth]

Why buy a M&P with a thumb safety if you just plan on removing it at a later?

If I buy a M&P with a safety, I don't plan on removing it. I was just checking, in case I didn't care for it, could it be removed. Just looking at my options, was wondering if it would be possible without major modifications. The loss of warranty would be of major concern, good point.

Thanks for your reply!!

 

[stingray2100]

ok, so here are my points of View.

It looks to me like you are new and you are learning, there is nothing bad about that, actually you are doing better than most people, you are asking the right questions.

You are trying to find out the PROS and CONS of manual safeties in an M&P (or any other gun).

here are the points.

1.- Comfort
2.- Concealment
3.- Safety factor
4.- Reliability
5.- Learning curve for the battery of arms
6.- Stress vs motor skills


Well first lets look at the dimensions of the gun itself and how are you going to carry it.

The S&W M&P (9,40,45 - Full, compact or sub-compact) have almost the same thickness...(this is important because this will dictate how you are going to carry your gun "inside the waist band" (IWB holster) or "Outside the waist band"(OWB holster). it will also dictate how comfortable it is going to be to carry it.

The M&P 9C without the manual safety has a physical width of 1.2" (actual mesurement) give or take.
the M&P 9C with the manual safety has a physical witdth of 1.4" (not mention on the documentation).

the manual safety will rub,poke and scrach your body(or under t-shirt) while you carry it. That is if you purchase a holster with out a protective surface (sorry forgot the technical term) that will shield the body from the gun. but even then that will not protect you from the uncomfortable poking...and if you are of the heavy set and purchase your pants to fit just right... well it is going to be really uncomfortable.

NO we go and touch the concealment portion...that manual safety will show as a little bump all the time, when you bend, turn, streach, stand on your toes to reach something...yes day to day movement. You have a better chance of getting that snagged with your clothes...(sure you are thinking this will never happen...but it does). no matter how much S&W or any other manufacturer tries to minimize this it happends.

The safety factor it a very personal and it varies from one individual to another one. I know that when I started I was not comfortable carrying with one in the chamber, this will come in due time because it has to do with the level of self trust in your avilities, experience and trust of your firearm, yes I said it you need to trust yourself, your firearm and your skills.

some things that help are: try carrying with a snap cap in the chamber for a few months every day and that will give you confidance in you carrying your firearm...It help me also if you have a firearm that has a manual safety and you want to carry it "condition one" start with the snap cap until your comfortable with the manual safety of your firearm so you can walk, run, jump, do day to day activities with it, play in the park, etc. it will help you a lot.


Reliability..well this is not just knowing that your firearm is going to go bang when your bugger hook pulls on the trigger...! it is also for you to know that your manual safety is going to be easy to engage / disengage and also to stay in the same place until you need to move it to and from both positions ( hope it is clear, if not met me know). this also referes to YOU, yes YOU.
your need to be reliable, just like the manual safety, you need to know when to engage and disengage that manual safety. if you do not....WELL your not going to like the outcome of it. Be safe..if you want it with a manual safety train with it A LOT...!

learning curve...yes I see lots of people that are at the range and never use the manual safety in there drills. they just put the safety on when they are ready to go home...This is the type of people that will carry and have issues in a dynamic and critical incident..(yeah you guess it right..Rob Pincus) sorry but I had to use his line because it is so true.. if you do not train for real world your going to be learning when it happends, and by that time it is going to be to late..!

Stress vs. motor skills......Stress always wins....! so know this and train simple and efficient methods that always work..!

I see so many people using the slide stop..yes it looks cool, but it is a fine motor skill that under stress will may not work for you, so many people think that they are going to be able to pull the gun and the person is going to walk away or they are going to be able to rack, point, aim and then press so the gun is going to go boom...learn to point and shoot...!
also learn to defend yourself and give your self space to unholster.. make that space or learn to contact shoot your gun is your last line of defense...! your first one is your mind and then your body..yes the body your going to probably get physical...so imagine yourself trying to get one or more individuals that are hitting you, taking you out of balance, distracting you and moving at the same time...your fighting for your life, do you really think you have time to rack the slide, disengage a manual safety...point and shoot....OH ALMOST FORGOT...and be EFFECTIVE....!!!


Yeah....no...an incident like this is way to common...so I'm not going to give you a definite answer... you need to make your own call on that one...I'm just making you think a little bit.

Good luck sir. Sorry I typed a lot. Hope it helps. If you like the info let me know. I like feedback...

 

[upnorth]

stingray2100
Wow...A lot to think about, Thanks for taking the time to reply in such a comprehensive manner.

 

[stingray2100]

Just trying to help... one post at a time

 

[mwhaught]

IMO, the manual safety on an M&P is trying to modify it to be a different gun than it was designed to be. If you like it, go for it. For me, proper handling, proper holster and proper storage is all that is necessary for it to be safe.

 

[JPKirkpatrick]

I carry my handguns IWB in a Kholster and all of them (including my Glock) have a manual safety. It is just the way I trained in using handguns over the past 45 years (yes, I'm an old fart). I am 6'4" tall, 285 lbs. and I do not have a problem with the safety or the beaver tail on my CZ's and 1911's poking me in the ribs, etc. The Kholster takes care of that and protects the weapon from perspiration. I don't have a problem with printing, and no there is not a little 'bump' showing through my shirts, either open or tucked.

The M&P is a fine pistol, and S&W designed it so it can please both schools of thought on the use of the safety or not to use a safety. It's a personal choice and if you train to take the weapon off-safe on the draw, it does not take one fraction of a second longer to draw. If you train to not use a safety, then this discussion is moot!

Outfit yourself and the weapon properly and train to use the system that you desire to use and you'll do all right. Some people just get really worked up when you talk about a safety on a pistol, no reason to, but they do...

Whatever way you choose to go with the safety issue, Train to it and YOU be safe! That is most important!!

 

[BlueMR2]

I wish my wife's M&P had a safety. She's a little bit hesitant to carry it with one in the chamber without the safety. Would be nice to have it to help her feel more comfortable at first. Having a safety on my carry weapon made it a lot easier for me to get used to it (while I'm always *very* cautious to make sure the trigger doesn't catch anything while going into the holster, etc, having the safety there as another line of defense against an unintended discharge helps calm the nerves. ).

 

[JPKirkpatrick]

Another reason to have the manual safety. Peace of Mind and a Confidence builder...
Easy to use, un-obtrusive, and easy to disengage while in the drawing mode.

Just as easy to put the pistol into use as is the SAA/Ruger Blackhawk single action revolvers. I've seen (and done some of it) the really great pistoleros drawing their Single Action Revolvers from high speed cameras that showed them drawing the revolver from the holster with three fingers on the grip, trigger finger extended and the thumb cocking the hammer in one fast blurry motion.

Manual safeties can be dis-engaged just as easily and just as fast... It just takes training the muscles to do it from memory each and every time...

 

[titaniumman]

OK here goes my take on this>>>I never owned a pistol before 2009. When I went to purchase my thought was, It was easier to learn to draw my weapon if I only had a minimum of steps to learn. So that being said I felt that it was easier to draw and keep my finger out of the trigger guard as the only step I needed to perform. It is now second nature, trigger finger outside holster, grab weapon with remaining three fingers...DRAW and present weapon finger along slide. this also allows me to check my loaded chamber indicator, just to be sure! No safety, No bang, nothing else to know! It has been about 2 years, I have never even been close to an accident. GLOCK was my choice for that reason.

 

[Treo]

This ^^^

 

[titaniumman]

Just one more thought and I will shut up about this...Those who say they will use the safety until they are more skilled and comfortable with the weapon, what if you become comfy carrying with no safety when the weapon has one and you encounter a BG, draw your weapon and hook the safety on the way out of the holster, then you squeeze the trigger and nothing happens. then not knowing what happend you try to rack the slide like the store owner did and STILL nothing happens. By the time you realize the safety is on you are taking a dirt nap...remember this is just a what if! Anything can happen during a life or death encounter...I say if the gun has a safety USE IT. If you don't want one buy a revolver or a GLOCK