LVMPD does it again...


LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I was just informed that an acquaintance of mine had her fingerprints for her NV CFP were lost. She applied about a week before my renewal. I'll be calling the CCW detail tomorrow to see if this is an isolated incident or if others are affected. I will be posting a follow up to this.

This is not the first time LVMPD has lost fingerprints.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Will she have to pay to be fingerprinted again, or will LVMPD take this one?
No. It's standard practice with all law enforcement agencies that if there's a fingerprinting issue, they eat the cost doing them again. Doesn't matter if it's for a CCW or to have cards printed for some other purpose.

The issue is whether or not she'll get her CFP within the 120 day statutory period for it to be issued or denied under NRS 202.366.3. Last time this issue happened, LVMPD was issuing well past the statutory 120 days. Since I applied for my renewal about a week after her's it may affect me if a block of fingerprints were lost. It took several State legislators to make inquiries to LVMPD to get the issue fixed the last time. If this turns out to be a common issue that is happening I will be making a stink to have everything moved to NV DPS and cut out the sheriffs completely since they obviously cannot handle it. There's no reason why NV DPS can't do it to begin with which is the practice in AZ and UT.
 
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They should adopt some type of electronic system like FL. Got my prints done electonically, cut the processing time in half. It's a lot more difficult to explain the loss of that kind of records that should be backed up at a remote location.



gf
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
They should adopt some type of electronic system like FL. Got my prints done electonically, cut the processing time in half. It's a lot more difficult to explain the loss of that kind of records that should be backed up at a remote location.
We have such a system in place. Fingerprints are scanned by the sheriff (or sheriff's designee) and transmitted to NV DPS Records and Technology. NV DPS Records and Technology checks the prints against the NV criminal repository which is a state mirror of NCIC a copy of the scan is then sent to the FBI.

Last time we had the issue, LVMPD had a data communications issue with NV DPS. NV DPS Records and Technology and LVMPD Fingerprinting Bureau were pointing fingers at each other until some State legislators stepped in. I never did get a straight answer as to where the problem was.
 
We have such a system in place. Fingerprints are scanned by the sheriff (or sheriff's designee) and transmitted to NV DPS Records and Technology. NV DPS Records and Technology checks the prints against the NV criminal repository which is a state mirror of NCIC a copy of the scan is then sent to the FBI.

Last time we had the issue, LVMPD had a data communications issue with NV DPS. NV DPS Records and Technology and LVMPD Fingerprinting Bureau were pointing fingers at each other until some State legislators stepped in. I never did get a straight answer as to where the problem was.


Sounds like there are too many steps in the system. Excess steps = potential for error. When I got my fingerprints done in FL, they were scanned directly into an electronic scanner. A finger print tech verified that they were acceptable, I signed a couple of places and was on my way. From what the fingerprint tech told me, the database was accessible by all agencies involved in the CWL issue process. He told me that the worse case scenario, I may have to get hard copies done if a particular agency has computer problems when reviewing my application. This was within the first few months of the electronic fingerprinting system. There was no "blue card" to be lost on the way to the scanner, or to become smudged or otherwise damaged before being scanned. All agencies had access to the same fingerprints. Seemed like a very efficient system. I did hear of one problem with one of my friends who applied for his permit in FL. He was told to get a hard copy done. In his case, he was given the option to do the hard copy or wait a couple of extra weeks for one of the agencies to get their computers back online. It seemed lilke it was more of a physical hardware problem rather than a database issue. Two days after submitting the hard copies of the fingerprint cards, he gets his permit in the mail. Don't know how to explain that situation, but it seemed to work out fine.

I wish that all states would be able to come up with some efficient system so they can comply with applicable laws (like the 120 NV law). There's no excuse for a LE agency to "lose" such documents. ALL of our personal infomation should be properly handled and secured. I'll bet if a citizen "lost" some of the LE agency sensitive info, they wouldn't be as "understanding".



gf
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Sounds like there are too many steps in the system. Excess steps = potential for error.
I agree. NICS also works the same where here and in UT. States that do not defer to the FBI for NICS checks maintain something similar to Nevada. They consult their local mirror first then check with the FBI.

Actually what should be done here is if the background check is inconclusive at the end of 120 days then the sheriff must issue a temporary permit. I don't know if that's what LVMPD is doing now to avoid legislative and judicial hot water.
 

mp301

New member
I appled for my Nevada CCW early Oct. and got it in 21 days flat! I was surprised and I live in CA!
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I appled for my Nevada CCW early Oct. and got it in 21 days flat! I was surprised and I live in CA!
The county you apply in makes all the difference. If it was Washoe County, they are known for much better service than Clark County.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Is the process for each issuing authority, (ie., county, municipality, or whatever it is in Nevada) standardized, or does each have their own process?
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Is the process for each issuing authority, (ie., county, municipality, or whatever it is in Nevada) standardized, or does each have their own process?
No. There are statutory requirements. Keep in mind that a Nevada sheriff has 120 days to issue or deny. What a county sheriff does in those 120 days is up to them. They can sit on your application for 119 days if they want then run your fingerprints, do the necessary computer checks and mail it out on day 120.
 

gdcleanfun

Banned
Say what? It's not like fingerprints have feet and legs, y'know. How on earth can they be lost? Did they not stop and ask for directions? Did the GPS fail or not cover that specific area of town? Wasn't there a movie called, "The Thing" that was a hand that walked on the back of the couch and strangled people? So, what exactly is going on?:sarcastic:

Seriously, Nye county, at least the Sheriff's office in Pahrump, does electronic fingerprinting. There is nothing that can get lost, unless the hard drive dies, but a heck of a lot of ions are inconvenienced in the making of the records. :sarcastic:

Happy New Year folks!
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Say what? It's not like fingerprints have feet and legs, y'know. How on earth can they be lost?
I'll be asking Sgt Johnson (supervisor of the LVMPD CCW Detail) and Chief PK O’Neill of the NV DPS Records & Technology division what happened this time and the last time a few years ago where Clark County NV CFP holder applicants fingerprints were disappearing regularly at the next NV CFP holder forum unless someone beats me to the punch.
Seriously, Nye county, at least the Sheriff's office in Pahrump, does electronic fingerprinting. There is nothing that can get lost, unless the hard drive dies, but a heck of a lot of ions are inconvenienced in the making of the records. :sarcastic:
Clark County (LVMPD) does electronic as well.
 
Someone needs to be fired for the SNAFU. There's no "good" excuse for losing ANY records in their custody. Suppose it were key evidence in a serious crime. Will they be happy having to let the BG walk?

What a bunch of bologna.



gf
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I'm still "kicking myself" for missing the last one. Would you happen to know where and when the next one will be?
No I don't. They're typically semi-annual to annually. I suspect the next one will be just before or after the 2009 legislative session.

I expect to see more since we have two key pro-RKBA legislators in office; Assemblyperson Settelmeyer and Senator Lee. At least two other Nevada legislators attended the last one. You'll have to either come to Las Vegas or go up to Carson City to attend. There's plenty of present support for future forums.
 
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gdcleanfun

Banned
No I don't. They're typically semi-annual to annually. I suspect the next one will be just before or after the 2009 legislative session.

I expect to see more since we have two key pro-RKBA legislators in office; Assemblyperson Settelmeyer and Senator Lee. At least two other Nevada legislators attended the last one. You'll have to either come to Las Vegas or go up to Carson City to attend. There's plenty of present support for future forums.

The last one was sent live online but I couldn't record it. My cd/dvd player was on the blink and I wasn't home to watch it. I have a new player/burner so I can record it when/if it's online again. No one present at the last meeting thought to record it. Maybe no one asked? IDK.
 

calmp9

New member
The county you apply in makes all the difference. If it was Washoe County, they are known for much better service than Clark County.


Washoe County was good in processsing mine, but it wasn't 21 days. It was 72 days. Later, I found that some had experienced waiting periods of close to 120 days.

Live scan fingerprints were taken at the Washoe County Sheriff's Office and I purchased a $10 card copy for my nonresident Utah CCW application.

Hard to believe that they could lose electronic fingerprints. They've got to be stored somewhere.
 
The last one was sent live online but I couldn't record it. My cd/dvd player was on the blink and I wasn't home to watch it. I have a new player/burner so I can record it when/if it's online again. No one present at the last meeting thought to record it. Maybe no one asked? IDK.

I too can only guess when the next forum will be held. I'll take a wild guess and speculate in July 2009.

The first ever NSCA/CCW holders forum was held July 11, 2007, shortly after sine die of the 74th (2007) legislative session.

The second (last) forum was held September 10, 2008 - but it was originally scheduled earlier.

So we can hope the NSCA will schedule the next forum shortly after the 75th (2009) session (sine die June 1, 2009).

The 2007 forum was recorded and was (perhaps still is) available. I failed to purchase the CD audio recording immediately following the forum, but ordered a copy later and cannot remember exactly how I ordered it. The following will probably get you in the ballpark:
Nevada Legislative Publications
401 South Carson St.
Carson City, NV 89701
Phone: 775/684-6835
Fax: 775/684-6663
[email protected]

Immediately after the 2008 forum, I asked to purchase a CD recording of the proceedings, but was told by a staffer, "No one asked that we record it." We will try to NOT let that happen again next time!

A li'l history behind the NSCA/CCW forum. More than one bill in the 2007 legislature concerned firearms and CCW; AB-21 and SB-92 especially were controversial. We can thank Senator John Lee (D-Clark) for making the CCW holders forum happen. And thanks to Mr Frank Adams, Executive Director of the NSCA for continuing it in 2008. I would almost bet there will be a forum in 2009.

Reminder: The 75th (2009) Legislative session begins February 2, 2009. See Nevada Legislature - it contains a wealth of information!

Larry
Stillwater Firearms Association!
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
All persons fingerprinted in October 2008 were affected...

I have found out that all Clark County (LVMPD) CCW applicants for the month of October were affected, myself included. If you were fingerprinted for any reason at the LVMPD fingerprinting bureau for the month of October 2008 you will most likely need to be reprinted. LVMPD CCW Detail will be issuing temporaries if the fingerprints do not come back before the 120 day statutory issuance or denial period from the date you applied.

This is an LVMPD Fingerprinting Bureau issue, not an issue with NV DPS Records and Technology. I will be pushing LVMPD Internal Affairs as to why this happened. If I do not get an answer back, I will be talking it to my State legislators and the Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association along with revisiting it at the next NCSA CCW public forum along with making suggestions for legislative changes.

I also want to know why this happened with LVMPD a few years ago as well. I also want to know how often fingerprints get lost, where the likely point of failure is and what will LVMPD be doing to fix it. Since I have 20 years of IT experience, I can hold their feet to the fire on this issue.

Again this is not an issue with the CCW Detail themselves. They just create a referral for you to be fingerprinted by the fingerprinting bureau. If there's an issue with your prints, you should be getting a call from the CCW Detail asking that you come back in to be reprinted. Also verify that you will be getting a temporary if your prints don't come back within the 120 days you applied.
 
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