looking for thoughts on a 380

Any of the tip up barrel designs help with that problem of racking a slide it also helps to cock the pistol prior easier to rack.
As for a bersa 380,if you get by break in period it will be ok its a pp, ppk clone,always decock outside,in a holster can carry in detent as slight tilt of sear block,in my 9x18 pa63 also a copy,one other thing about her 38 reduce the loads to something less should recoil no more than the 380.Basically 185-200 fpe range.
I used a taurus pt22 to pass cc with as have old arthur as well,dont have to rack slides a lot for normal cc so have a variety ,22lr,32acp, that stops at 9x18.Very hot summer time all I have on me is a 22.
 
Well i took my wife to the gun shop and she looked at the sig pk380 and some others after sometime with each she picked the bersa thunder 380 and lovez it thank for all your info
 
Well i took my wife to the gun shop and she looked at the sig pk380 and some others after sometime with each she picked the bersa thunder 380 and lovez it thank for all your info
Your welcome, and the Bersa's a very good choice, a very good gun for the money
 
MY LGS has a Colt Mustang. My wife and I both have P238's. Mine has the Hogue warp around grips.

The Colt Mustang and SIG P238 have the easiest to rack slides on the planet. The Mustang needs some melting of sharp edges but it has a nicer trigger - 5 lbs instead of 8 lbs. The Mustand doesn't have sights as nice as the SIG.

Compared to other pocket size .380 SA's I've shot, the P238's recoil is the gentlest. Of the other .380's, the SIG P232 has the least, at least for me, but it's awful big for a woman to carry and it's heavy.

I'd have her handle the Mustang and P238 to see how they feel and if she can so the manual of arms with them. My 70 year old wife loves her P238.

P238RtSideWStdMag-C-640RS-SNE.jpg


P238LtSideWStdMag-C-640RS.jpg


I looked at the Mustang again yesterday but since we already have two P238s, I brought home a Glock 17 (my 4th Glock) instead.

Fitch
 
Looking to buy my wife a gun she has arthritis in her hands so we are looking for help in the 380 area with low recoil was thinking pt138

I have no wish to start a caliber war here, but the .380 has some concerns if the application is SD. While shot placement is more important than caliber, without adequate penetration, shot placement becomes irrelevant. I would consider the .380 at the minimum of performance. In northern climates during colder months, the penetration challenges are aggravated by clothing. So, you should take that into consideration. To best mitigate the forgoing, hardball ammo is recommended. My personal comfort would not permit me to carry a .380 in colder winter months. I will do it occasionally in warmer climates if necessary for deep cover or as a BUG.

As an aside, bore axis and firearm weight will greatly influence felt recoil and muzzle flip, so that may open up other possibilities for consideration.
 
I have no wish to start a caliber war here, but the .380 has some concerns if the application is SD. While shot placement is more important than caliber, without adequate penetration, shot placement becomes irrelevant. I would consider the .380 at the minimum of performance. In northern climates during colder months, the penetration challenges are aggravated by clothing. So, you should take that into consideration. To best mitigate the forgoing, hardball ammo is recommended. My personal comfort would not permit me to carry a .380 in colder winter months. I will do it occasionally in warmer climates if necessary for deep cover or as a BUG.

As an aside, bore axis and firearm weight will greatly influence felt recoil and muzzle flip, so that may open up other possibilities for consideration.

Agree 100%. The .380 is little more than a fun gun for plinking away at coke cans in the backyard. I've been in the caliber war several times and it seems never ending. Shot placement is indeed very important and everyone should be logging lots of range time and draw practice. Even so, shot placement becomes pretty moot if there is no penetration and heavy clothing is a real problem for a .380. I tell all my students to carry the largest caliber handgun they can handle and to never go smaller than a .38 or 9mm. If these present too much recoil or muzzle flip than you need more range time and practice to become more comfortable with it.
 
I have no wish to start a caliber war here, but the .380 has some concerns if the application is SD. While shot placement is more important than caliber, without adequate penetration, shot placement becomes irrelevant. I would consider the .380 at the minimum of performance. In northern climates during colder months, the penetration challenges are aggravated by clothing. So, you should take that into consideration. To best mitigate the forgoing, hardball ammo is recommended. My personal comfort would not permit me to carry a .380 in colder winter months. I will do it occasionally in warmer climates if necessary for deep cover or as a BUG.

As an aside, bore axis and firearm weight will greatly influence felt recoil and muzzle flip, so that may open up other possibilities for consideration.

The reason to carry a .380 is because one can't conceal a larger and more powerful gun. When does that happen? In the summer of course when clothes are light.

In the winter, when penetration of heavy clothing is an issue, there is no reason to have a problem concealing one of the small 9mm pistols. Winter clothes hide pretty good sized guns. I'm not very big, 5'-8"/160 lbs yet I've been carrying a Glock 19 for several days in a row at 3:00 in a SuperTuck under a cotton sweater, or sweatshirt. It's literally invisible almost no matter what I do. Bend over, reach over my head, twist in either direction. That puppy doesn't print. I have it set as low as practical with one hole difference worth of forward cant. The Glocks stick back past the grip far enough that the biggest printing problem is the rear sight sticking forward. Lowering the gun as much as possible reduces that to where it isn't a problem.

But, in the summer, most of the time I end up pocket carrying. For me, that pretty much means a .380 or no gun at all. I take the .380. Maybe the new XDs will pocket carry, but I doubt it. I also have hope that I can carry the XDs at 4 to 5 in a hybrid holster of some sort under an untucket polo shirt or t-shirt.

Fitch
 
I don't know about the 380, I have one but haven't shot it yet. I have a Smith and Wesson M&P9 compact and it hasn't hurt my hands at all. I have bad thumbs and really feel it when I shoot my LCR revolver but the Smith shoots easy. I can rack it easy. The hardest thing is loading the mag but I use a mag loader and it helps. When I bought my LCP the man that sold it said I had to rack it first because a lot of women couldn't do it. It might not have as much to do with the caliber as how it shoots.
 
I don't know about the 380, I have one but haven't shot it yet. I have a Smith and Wesson M&P9 compact and it hasn't hurt my hands at all. I have bad thumbs and really feel it when I shoot my LCR revolver but the Smith shoots easy. I can rack it easy. The hardest thing is loading the mag but I use a mag loader and it helps. When I bought my LCP the man that sold it said I had to rack it first because a lot of women couldn't do it. It might not have as much to do with the caliber as how it shoots.

That M&P 9C is a heck of a good pistol - excellent choice. My buddy has one. I like shooting it. I have a Glock 26, which is pretty much the same thing.

I do have an LCP. My wife doesn't like shooting it and can't rack the slide on it. She loves her P238 (She took me to Cabela's to buy me one so I'd leave hers alone!). The slide on the P238 is in the contest for easiest slide to wrack on the planet. It's literally two fingers like sipping tea.

The LCP is slightly easier to conceal. So I have both.

Fitch
 
The reason to carry a .380 is because one can't conceal a larger and more powerful gun. When does that happen? In the summer of course when clothes are light.

In the winter, when penetration of heavy clothing is an issue, there is no reason to have a problem concealing one of the small 9mm pistols. Winter clothes hide pretty good sized guns. I'm not very big, 5'-8"/160 lbs yet I've been carrying a Glock 19 for several days in a row at 3:00 in a SuperTuck under a cotton sweater, or sweatshirt. It's literally invisible almost no matter what I do. Bend over, reach over my head, twist in either direction. That puppy doesn't print. I have it set as low as practical with one hole difference worth of forward cant. The Glocks stick back past the grip far enough that the biggest printing problem is the rear sight sticking forward. Lowering the gun as much as possible reduces that to where it isn't a problem.

But, in the summer, most of the time I end up pocket carrying. For me, that pretty much means a .380 or no gun at all. I take the .380. Maybe the new XDs will pocket carry, but I doubt it. I also have hope that I can carry the XDs at 4 to 5 in a hybrid holster of some sort under an untucket polo shirt or t-shirt.

Fitch


Not sure why that is for you, but living in a warm climate most of the year, I wear shorts and a camp shirts, polos and light t-shirts much of the time and have no problem making a G19 disappear even in a light t-shirt. Belts and holsters have a lot to do with that, and my go-to holster for shorts and a light t-shirt is a Milt Sparks Summer Special 2 and a custom belt from a local leather craftsman. Any good gun belt will do.

I have a Kahr CM9 that I acquired recently, but hardly ever carry it unless as a BUG.

At 6’2” 225, I’m bigger than you, but with the right gear, you should be able to manage any of the subcompact 9s without a problem. You have the G26 – why not carry that?
 
That M&P 9C is a heck of a good pistol - excellent choice. My buddy has one. I like shooting it. I have a Glock 26, which is pretty much the same thing.

I do have an LCP. My wife doesn't like shooting it and can't rack the slide on it. She loves her P238 (She took me to Cabela's to buy me one so I'd leave hers alone!). The slide on the P238 is in the contest for easiest slide to wrack on the planet. It's literally two fingers like sipping tea.

The LCP is slightly easier to conceal. So I have both.

Fitch

Good choices, I did not own a 238 but did shoot one, shot great no problems, but I did own a LC-9 and LCP, shot ok, just could not get used to the 14 mile long triggers, if its not a bother great.
 
Not sure why that is for you, but living in a warm climate most of the year, I wear shorts and a camp shirts, polos and light t-shirts much of the time and have no problem making a G19 disappear even in a light t-shirt. Belts and holsters have a lot to do with that, and my go-to holster for shorts and a light t-shirt is a Milt Sparks Summer Special 2 and a custom belt from a local leather craftsman. Any good gun belt will do.

I have a Kahr CM9 that I acquired recently, but hardly ever carry it unless as a BUG.

At 6’2” 225, I’m bigger than you, but with the right gear, you should be able to manage any of the subcompact 9s without a problem. You have the G26 – why not carry that?

I hear you. I have a great BeltMan belt. VM-II and SuperTuck holsters for the Glocks. I know a guy my height who can hide a full size 1911 under an untucked t-shirt, but I can't.

I have no trouble making my 19 disappear carried at 3:00 under a sweater, or sweatshirt. But T-shirts and polo shirts it prints. So does the 26. I may be 70 years old but I have no 'gut' at all. None. A medim t-shirt hangs lose on me below the chest. Shoulders are just right, rest of it hangs loose but not loose enough to hide a gun as thick as a Glock. I wear pants with a 34" waist to include a SuperTuck in the waist band. The shirt is not quite loose enough with the holster to hide a Glock.

I can hide the LCP and P238 in IWB holsters, but end up pocket carrying them. A large t-shirt might work, but it's so big on me it looks like I have on someone else's shirt.

Between now and summer I'll be experimenting with the XDs to see if it's enough thinner to be IWB packable in the summer. I was able to pack the Shield under a couple of untucked polo shirts last summer. Alas, I sold it. Wish I hadn't.

I was looking at a SIG C3 Revolution yesterday. 'bout fell in love with it. If they outlaw greater than 10 round magazines I would rather have 8 rounds of .45 than 11 rounds of 9mm. Or at least that's the rationalization I'll use to buy one. : )

Fitch
 
LADIES...great topic!

As many of students have asked when it comes to "caliber" the solution is simple.

What is the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately and if conceal carrying how easily concealable is it?

When its being used for self defense purposes it means that your need to keep in mind a few facts:

- 73% of the time you will be attacked within 0-6ft
- 88% of the time you will be attacked inside of 15ft
- Their is little "stopping power" differences between 9mm/40/45 calibers in the above typical "personal attack" ranges however anything UNDER 9mm or OVER 45 have significant "stopping power" considerations even within self defense ranges.
- The average hit rate for professional LE is 18% within 15ft in an active shooter response (self defense shooting use) based on typical training standards and the fact that Isosceles/Weaver platforms are designed for "range shooting purposes" and not practical self defense such as the Center Axis Relock System.
- The flight/fight response is an UNAVOIDABLE HUMAN REACTION and regardless of training or experience everyone undergoes all the same neurological and physiological reactions...how you compensate based on training (C.A.R. works great) will determine whether your "gun caliber" is even apart of the equation.
- The average hit rate for Civilians is up to 11% within 15ft in an active shooter response (self defense shooting use) based on typical training standards of Isosceles/Weaver shooting techniques.

The point being, that if your training appropriately almost any gun will do if YOU will do...training is equal to the surprise attack your undergoing as bad guys don't usually give you a heads up.

However, be mindful that calibers under 9mm especially may not "penetrate" deep enough to stop the threat which is what HAS to happen in order for the attack to stop.

Winter clothing is a HUGE reason why less than 9mm (even 9mm hollow point instead of powerball like options) may have issues as winter jackets and layering is common and this reduces velocity thus reducing penetration. Penetration has to be deep enough to cause as much damage as possible (why hollow points are used) without OVER penetrating the intended target.

Where you shoot is also important...mid mass is often targeted but there is a ribcage and unless your hitting the T-ZONE the chances of incapacitating the threat is minimal. We let our students know that shooting below mid mass (stomach-pubic/groin area) is potentially your best bet to STOP the threat.

Your job is not to kill but to STOP a threat in general and I don't know anyone who is going to continue their attack after being shot in the groin or if the pubic bone is damaged even remotely having the ability to run after you etc. when you attempt to escape.

Will a 380 work?

It can...but 9mm is preferred as is ongoing training in SPECIFIC self defense shooting aspects/formats as being a good range target shooter (recreation or competitive) is not going to equal any kind of valuable training (other than comfort in shooting and handling a firearm in general) related to what will work when your life is on the line.

We do not try to teach average civilians to become "one person commandos" but we do require our students to be better trained than your average LE professional if taking our practical courses as 18% Nation wide Hit average in the field during active shooter response with a pistol is not something I liked banking my life on when I was one.

Best option is to find a firearm that fits your hands/grip well, you can comfortable shoot well, works with your body type/structure for concealment purposes and is at least a 9mm with specific attention to type of ammunition used to factor assailant clothing options (winter) and even shooting through car windows if needed.

Even 9mm have been known to bounce back shooting through a car window and if your ever in the middle of being carjacked etc. your not "supposed" to roll down your window (much less have time to do so) to make it easier to shoot while allowing your assailant a chance to get at you better.

Ammunition is just as important in its TYPE as is the CALIBER.

9mm is what most of us professionally trained individuals (my company) use as it allows more rounds to be stored in a magazine, far easier to find the MOST popular 9mm round than a 40 or 45 whether in small or big cities and of course is far more cost effective too!

Best of luck and hopefully my in depth post didn't bore everyone here...just thought I would post some KEY factors that seemed to be overlooked by many when it comes to TYPE of pistol and SIZE of caliber to purchase.

Be careful with POCKET GUNS too ladies...racking the slide can actually be more difficult than a decent size COMPACT.

**For those looking for Conceal Carry Certification check this link out**

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Not familiar with that model but if the slide has to be racked to get a round in the chamber, definitely not compatible with arthritis. Not sure what calibers are available but a tip-up barrel such as the small Beretta .25 and .22 TomCat-type semiauto might work. Neither caliber much but perhaps if you search for "tip-up barrel" semiauto pistol you can find something better. Other than that, look at some of the small .22's revolvers from Smith and others. Easy to load and 0 recoil.
You might also try some of the Range Master stores that rent a pretty good variety of handguns to shoot at their place and be sure your wife is with you - it's to be her gun, right. Good luck.
 
Taurus pt22,beretta 22,25acp,32acp and hard to find larger 380 all with tip up barrels,no racking,if a 9mm hurts to shoot ,most likly 380 will as well.
Long da pull safe as one can get for a pistol,load unload via that tip up barrel,never rack the slide,concealable exception of 380 as larger requiring winter clothing.
The 22 has little recoil,the 32 softer than a 380 and either one better than nothing or a pistol one wont shoot twice.
I qualified for my cc with a pt22 as have extensive nerve damage in hand,could rack a slide just not repeatedly.
 
The 22 has little recoil,the 32 softer than a 380 and either one better than nothing or a pistol one wont shoot twice.
I qualified for my cc with a pt22 as have extensive nerve damage in hand,could rack a slide just not repeatedly.


I couldn't disagree more. A .22 for personal defense is just plain crazy. STOPPING an attacker is the name of the game here and a .22 just won't do that. I have seen rabbits run off after being shot with a .22LR. Put some warm clothing on an attacker and it is doubtful if the round will even reach flesh. The most you can hope for with a .22 pissing off an attacker and strengthening his resolve. Unless you can put a round through an eyeball everytime forget the .22 and practice with a 9mm. You don't have to rack a slide "repeatedly" with a semiauto pistol.
 
One shoots what they can easily handle or conceal,summer shorts and tight T shirt 22 is only weapon I have on me,unlike you I feel protected,point blank in your face-head,when I carry my puny 32 acp(more clothing) its with euro sellier and belliot 170 fpe ammo-12 in penetration fmj (Llama)that i get lax with and aim for body part of target.
And if old arthur does not like the 380 then one should step down,many however can shoot an even heavier caliber just cannot rack it,or repeated racks such as in taking a cc test.
Try instructing the disabled,all that crap about caliber and minimal what one must carry does not apply.
Even someone in a wheel chair has the right to defend themselves or home,them being in one does not make them less of a target,sometimes more,elderly with weak muscles its a long list with age.And not everyone is endowed with physical well being.
It hurts her to shoot a 9mm,everyone is saying 380,that most likly will as well,32 or 22 with an easy load feature like a tip up barrel.
 
380 is fine for her in the state of ga were we live you can only fire one round at someone trying to brake in 22 is not going to have the stopping power that the 380 does 380 is also called the 9 short so whats the big deal with the 380
 

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